Upset drifting apart from sister

[PookieDo]

I have a Dsis and we both have children, but they are very different ages (Mine are older) and we now live 40 odd miles apart from each other.

Before she had children we were very close. When I had DC she joined in a lot of our family outings and experiences. She was very close to my DC and we spent a lot of time together, we also socialised together on nights our or nights in, either just us or with friends.

Despite the age gap our DC all really love each other, have a lot of fun together and my DC are very helpful with the little ones. So there are NO issues there. We have both helped each other with childcare as well, but this is rare now - I don’t need it anymore and she doesn’t ask me very often, although I’ve never said no and have made it clear I can help.

Since she has had her own children a few years ago, I feel more and more distance between us. She never ever invites us to go on fun family day trips (where we would happily pay our own way and make our own way there). We also aren’t invited to any parties/gatherings and I end up seeing things on social media that I think ‘that would have been great fun to join in’ and I feel a bit sad about it. She never invites me to socialise ever now, and I haven’t spent any alone time with her now for about 2 or 3 years even though I have suggested it. She doesn’t call or text very much either, if I call her she never answers the phone.

We do see them once a month or once every 6 weeks, and this is usually a last minute plan - she will suddenly announce she is free, and come to visit where we all sit indoors at my house for a few hours

I understand she has small kids, is busy, and I also understand she clearly values family time without us joining in, which is fine. But I have no idea if I should tell her how I feel, or just say nothing and let it go?

I don’t know why it upsets me seeing the great fun times on SM ‘making memories’ that we are never included in, whether she doesn’t actually like me very much or has just forgotten us. I have a small family and I’m single, so I don’t know if I am being unreasonable in my expectations? Should I say something? I don’t want to cause a scene either if I am just being over sensitive

Just a thought from the other side of the coin. I am deemed absent by my sister, she seems to have conjured up a sister persona that I am supposed to live up to. She moved away and I stayed local to all our family. Since having children she is put out that I apparently do not do enough / take more interest, although I visit a few times a year and spend every day with her and her family when they visit, which is every month or two. I love her and my nephews, and we speak most days online but nothing I do or say is ever enough.

You say she has been a great sister to you, not not sound unkind but have you considered what kind of sister you have been to her? I find it impossible to live up to fantasy sister my sister thinks I should be. I realised recently that I am almost certain she has never even considered that she herself has always fallen well short of my own fantasy sister, a fact I don't dwell on. I accept her as she is and yet she continues to attempt to push, guilt and bad mouth me into living up to her expectations, whilst giving no thought to mine.

Have you considered her point of view in this?

@PookieDo I haven't read all the replies. This is your Dsis- not a friend. Although you are lucky to have been friends with DSIs.

I think perhaps you can mention it to her or ask her to do something with you alone.

It could be something as simple as she is taking you for granted. You are not there regularly in her life and it is so much easier to make plans with people you see regularly. She knows you will always be there

Communication is the key to any relationship - communicate with your sister

Just tell her what you've said here!

I suppose I am now on the receiving end of the LC she has dished out to my parents. I don’t want to be in the middle, and I try to avoid doing the talking for her anymore but naturally when she’s MIA for 2 months they will come to me to ask why!

The Dsis I have been to her: I have taken time off work to look after her kids, I’ve driven over to her many many times, I’ve cleaned her house, done her laundry, helped her move, I also tried to help her grow up and support her when my parents were divorcing, she also got divorced before And moved in with me for 2 months, I’ve also done her a huge favour in recent months which has made her life easier. She just doesn’t need me, my sisterly work is complete I suppose! I don’t think she likes confrontation and I am afraid of her not talking to me at all anymore scraps is better than nothing

I think your sisters life has changed a lot, and she feels a pressure from you to be as close and see each other as much as before she had her children. It feels like an awkward fit inviting you to her hometown events with her and her children's friends, and inviting you makes it into a family event that she feels guilt about not inviting all the family (ie your mum) to. The theme park outing, it might feel to her like you are trying to take over and she wants to do with her kids without having to co-ordinate with you. If you want to speak to I would focus on rebuilding your relationship without bringing kids/partners/mums into it.

I'd say: Our relationship has moved on a lot in the past few years, you've got a lot on your plate with your kids etc. and I know you don't have really much time. However I miss the close relationship we used to have, could we maybe meet up infrequently for dinner, just the two of us without the family?

I think it is really hard to tell what the issue is.

I think it is interesting that your DS "pops up" and visits spontaneously, when she has time. She knows then that someone (is that your DM, DP, or whoever I don't know) can't arrange to be there too?

She might not be able to tell you or explain in case your feelings got hurt.

My example. I am friends with A and B. Suddenly I decide B is toxic - and I need to end the friendship. This means unfortunately I can't stay friends with A. As she will feed information about me to B. But I can't tell A either, as its her friend! The fact that she keeps everything "surface" might mean she doesn't want you to relay her personal life to a third party?

Perhaps its a similar kind of scenario. Or something completely different!

Its v v hard to tell from your postings. But you could gently "probe" for an answer, framing the question in a gentle and non-assuming way - she might be able to "allude" to the answer even if she doesn't spell it out in black and white. Equally, she might think you can't handle the honesty, and not want to tell you in case it makes everything worse. Its not an easy situation for anyone.

P.S. Not saying its your DM. But I really don't know why you can't meet up just as sisters without her for shopping and days out. Especially if she doesn't really get on with your DM! Have you tried that? However, she may still shy of getting closer because she may think you would tell DM her business. Of course not saying for sure its your DM - could be a completely different issue.

@PookieDo I understand what you are going through. I am the older sister and do not have children, but I was always there for my sister, and finally came to realise who she is! You sound kind and genuine, while she sounds more superficial. I am afraid the person who you are mourning, never really existed and was merely a front to enable her to partake in the life she secretly coveted, i.e. yours.

She no-longer needs you for that as she now has a partner and children of her own. You need to leave her to it and focus on your own life. Don't be surprised if she comes back to you when she has a problem in her life and acts as if nothing has happened.

It is sad, but I am a lot happier now and realise it was nothing I had done, it was more about acknowledging this is who she is.

Perfect Brown.

I had to go back to the OP as I couldn’t understand what Pookiedo asked or wanted. It was starting to feel a bit of a defeatist victim-fest IMHO.

So:
so I don’t know if I am being unreasonable in my expectations? Should I say something? I don’t want to cause a scene either if I am just being over sensitive

If your expectations are to include all of your kids, your overbearing DM in your DSs families making memories days - then yes.

If your expectations are to have a different RS with your DS, your DCs and their cousins in a new way in this new chapter in all you lives - then no you are not being unreasonable.

Yes you should say something.

No you won’t cause a scene.

This is probably great practice for when my children leave home one day. Letting go

I do not fit in with her social circle I think, mainly because I don’t have a partner. I have a good job but they are very well off and don’t move in the kind of social circles I would.

I really don’t want to include over bearing DM in building a new relationship and never have done! I can’t influence Dsis’s guilt though, and I am not sure she can get past it or deal with it. She will not want to be the bad guy to anyone and I can’t see her doing anything differently even if I speak up.

Dsis feels guilty and tries to keep us all happy with short visits, doesn’t include me in socialising because she would have to explain to DM and face DM’s upset. I’m not in charge of pacifying either of them I think I felt like a victim because Dsis inability to deal with DM has dealt a blow to our RS and it’s suffered
I’ve always been the outspoken one but no one ever confronts Dsis

That sounds sad OP.

The "popping in" may mean you are not a priority to do something with.

Agree with others - you need to not make her your priority.

Or else its just one of the awkward "triangles" as I described earlier. If it is simply that, it can only be resolved really by talking. Or you could just let things go if it would be better ....

Why do you have to let go?
Why does she have to include you in her social life?
Most people have various groups of friends and family that they socialise with separately in different ways.
Her new mummy friend neighbours will not (in the early days at least) provide a deep emotionally intimate RS.
Have a sister RS doing what others have mentioned above. It is worth fighting for - for both of you and your DCs.
Judging her social circle makes you sound bitter and jealous.

They are the only choices really ... have a longer think about it, there's no need to rush in.

I’m not jealous, but I am long term single so it’s common for us single ones to get left out of events actually, especially ones where there will be couples. 😂 They are much better off than me and I am realistic - I am probably not the same social fit, I’m not offended by it. She has a great life and I wistfully look at her amazing IG posts and just think I wish I could have been there! I’m proud of her and happy for her. Don’t make me into something I am not please

I think letting go is probably easier than trying to fight for something one sided - I’m the only one who seems to want this. I can’t flog a dead horse. If she makes some effort I will reciprocate

I have no issue saying to DM you aren’t coming and this is why, and giving an alternative situation. Or DM you are being irritating. Usually DM is ok with that. It’s the ignoring she’s not good with

Maybe you're right it is time ti let go.
Or loosen the grip.
I'm the older sister and once ds had her first ds I dropped on her list of priorities- rightly so.

In 7 years she's been over a handful of times.

I do the visiting.
She has just had her first gd

But if I needed her she'd be there.

Time to focus on your own family and friends.

Make this Christmas guilt free and see what happens next without any expectations.

Good luck.

I think letting go is probably easier than trying to fight for something one sided - I’m the only one who seems to want this. I can’t flog a dead horse.

When have you flogged a dead horse? Sounds like you have just been passive?
Is it so very hard for you to have a simple conversation - that’s not fighting - it’s just being open and honest. Can you steal yourself to do that for yourself, your DCs, your DS and the cousins?
Otherwise you will just slide deeper into passive, bitter, unspoken conflict. What’s the worst that can happen? She tells you to F off? All that means is that you get to the same endpoint quicker.

I don't know why you have to tell your DM why she is not invited to everything. It seems over the top justification to me! Telling her she is annoying and therefore not invited could be construed as rude and unnecessary. Not inviting someone to something is not "ignoring" someone! It just means you want to do something just you and your DS.

In effect your DM is insisting on being invited to everything unless there is an explanation that she is annoying and irritating. Strange dynamic to me.

The way I see the DM dynamic (without defending her, this is just my POV) - she doesn’t know when she will next see them again, and the gaps can be long (not always 6 weeks) and she worries she is missing out on them growing up. So when she sees them she seems to feel overwhelmed. Those 40 miles feel a lot longer when Dsis doesn’t respond or commit to anything you suggest. I live closer and I reply more often, so she isn’t overbearing with me or my DC. I don’t experience it the same way as she does. Being so elusive I think makes it all worse

I’ve suggested: days out, babysitting, nights out, nights in, I’ve offered to drive, I’ve offered all kinds of things. I usually get a ‘I will see if I am busy’ response or ‘sorry I forgot to call you I’m busy’ response. So with me being passive, I don’t think I can do more than just let everything be on her terms and accept it, or rock the boat and risk her ignoring us. That’s what I’m deciding between.

This was a while ago but I once bought tickets online to a day out, she agreed to come before I bought them. I took my DC there and they just never turned up! Said they ended up running late

I don't see you have anything to loose by telling sister you need to catch up with her without DM around and when can she make time for you to come over?

You may as well ask her if she has a problem with seeing you and the DC separate to these visits with DM. Not confrontational, just that you miss her and the DC and you can tell there is an issue and is it something that can be sorted out.

I still think that you are over invested in the dynamic between your DS and DM - is not for you to second guess, JADE or manage. It still sounds like you are on your Mums side.

It sounds like your DS has given you the brush off many times - is this because she assumes DM will be involved?

I think that it is the time now to be direct - a nice simple message - that’s if you want a relationship compromise that suits you, your DCs, your DS and the cousins. Saying currently it is all on her terms is not accurate if you haven’t been upfront with her.

Ok I will have a good think about what I can say

I’m not on DM’s side, I tell DM that this needy behaviour isn’t going to want to make anyone spend time with her and it’s annoying. I don’t appreciate the little time I get with them all being ruined by DM