Upset drifting apart from sister

[PookieDo]

I have a Dsis and we both have children, but they are very different ages (Mine are older) and we now live 40 odd miles apart from each other.

Before she had children we were very close. When I had DC she joined in a lot of our family outings and experiences. She was very close to my DC and we spent a lot of time together, we also socialised together on nights our or nights in, either just us or with friends.

Despite the age gap our DC all really love each other, have a lot of fun together and my DC are very helpful with the little ones. So there are NO issues there. We have both helped each other with childcare as well, but this is rare now - I don’t need it anymore and she doesn’t ask me very often, although I’ve never said no and have made it clear I can help.

Since she has had her own children a few years ago, I feel more and more distance between us. She never ever invites us to go on fun family day trips (where we would happily pay our own way and make our own way there). We also aren’t invited to any parties/gatherings and I end up seeing things on social media that I think ‘that would have been great fun to join in’ and I feel a bit sad about it. She never invites me to socialise ever now, and I haven’t spent any alone time with her now for about 2 or 3 years even though I have suggested it. She doesn’t call or text very much either, if I call her she never answers the phone.

We do see them once a month or once every 6 weeks, and this is usually a last minute plan - she will suddenly announce she is free, and come to visit where we all sit indoors at my house for a few hours

I understand she has small kids, is busy, and I also understand she clearly values family time without us joining in, which is fine. But I have no idea if I should tell her how I feel, or just say nothing and let it go?

I don’t know why it upsets me seeing the great fun times on SM ‘making memories’ that we are never included in, whether she doesn’t actually like me very much or has just forgotten us. I have a small family and I’m single, so I don’t know if I am being unreasonable in my expectations? Should I say something? I don’t want to cause a scene either if I am just being over sensitive

Stop including your mum then. Call her and suggest a trip just your family and hers without dm

Looks like you are all tiptoeing around your overbearing DM and this is destroying your relationship with your DS and the relationships between the cousins. Your DS has drawn her boundaries with her DM so only sees her briefly out of duty every 6 weeks.

You need to discuss this with your DS upfront - your relationship and those of the cousins will outlast your overbearing DM. Don’t let this dynamic pollute the next generation. Does she and her OH see you siding or enabling the overbearing DM.

All of these sibling and cousin relationships are valuable lifelong intimate experiences in this fractious, shallow world. Nurture them.

I don’t know if I am ‘punished’ because I seem to come along with a package with DM who would also want to be included

Your sister doesn’t want the double guilt.

The fact that to see you without your mother, you’d have to hide it or lie Compounds the issue. I’d avoid it too.

You are your mother both seem to have a lot of emotions about how your sister spends her time. It’s likely easiest to get the guilt over with as two birds one stone.

Start trying to have a relationship with your mother. An out in the open one where you don’t hide from her. Stop catering to your moms tantrums/feelings. Sounds like your sister has been alienated by that. She doesn’t want the drama

I have a RS with them all. My DM doesn’t hide any emotions and will lay them on you so she will guilt trip Dsis. Dsis has moved away so DM is my responsibility as I am closest and Dsis is drawing her line - that’s her choice and I don’t resent her. She has a nice life and i want her to have that.

I do not ever do this to her laying on guilt I would hate to do it. I’m patient, I know she is busy and I wait for her to come to me. I’m not angry with Dsis or cross about this, I don’t want to confront her. I don’t like my DC feeling left out but they are older and I can just say she’s busy. I don’t want her to lump my visit in with DM but that’s how she wants to do it, and I can’t demand she does anything else

Rainbow you aren’t being unkind - but Dsis just organised and held another party and did not invite us. I am not disputing she’s busy with small DC but she clearly doesn’t want to socialise with us specifically, so I do feel hurt by this.

DM is my responsibility as I am closest
A) no. Just no.
B) then you’ve made a choice. You chose your mother over your sister. Own it

Yes its heartbreaking. I was very sad for a long time until I decided there was no point in being sad and I just let it go and accepted the relationship had changed. I did really miss her. I don't think she noticed or understood what I was feeling at all. But we have a different relationship now, we are different people to what we were as teenagers and in our 20's, and I accept that and it is actually fine. Just spend a bit of time mourning for what you had and then move on, don't over think it - she is just busy and has built another life. Don't try and second guess how she feels about xmas or DM, just let it go and focus on making your life brilliant. It will work out in the end, and if you can avoid rowing then you'll both come back together when you are ready.

Also DM is not on the phone with me if I call Dsis, this doesn’t involve DM either and she doesn’t want to do this either. So it’s not all about DM it must be about me too.

I think I just need to accept this is the new way it is - which is fine, I just don’t know how to stop feeling shit about it. When you were once so close to someone who then won’t even answer your phone calls or messages anymore, but has plenty of time to throw parties it is going to make you think what did I do? If I am the problem then I need to think about that. If I am unrealistic about what a family RS is with her

Sorry my DM only had 2 children, she is also getting on a bit not the best of health. She’s annoying but she’s not really horrible. I shouldn’t have to choose between my own mother and own sister, why can’t I be in the middle? Why have I got to choose?

We can’t invite my husbands siblings to events without also inviting PIL. Siblings tell pil and then there is a hell of a guilt trip.

So, siblings are no longer invited. They made that choice for us. Dh doesn’t want to socialize with people who will end up being the cause of more grief later. Our parties were no longer enjoyable with them there.

This sounds similar

With all the emotional language you’re writing about this, you come across (dare I say) as also echoing your mother’s behaviour. A bit overbearing and expecting things of the relationship and how it should be and can’t accept it being different without an emotive reaction.

That’s probably a bit of a message to take on board but maybe you’re copying your mum without realising.

@Northernlass99

I just don’t really want to go anymore at Christmas. I think last year after we left they held a NY party and didn’t tell us or invite us. I just think by the time we come back together will it be too damaged?

That’s how I read it too @Rainbowshine, but you’ve said it much kinder than I could

Then I feel like I get to lose here because DM has ended up with no one really wanting her, I’m in the middle and the only way to get things back is to cut off DM? Im not facilitating DM, and I’m not on anyone’s side. If DM gets upset that’s her problem not mine or Dsis. But what was once a good RS is now shit, I’m left behind with DM in the dusty corner. I don’t insist Dsis has to do anything with DM or anything of the kind. If I was invited to something I would go without her. But I suppose maybe Dsis feels like that would make her feel too guilty so better to invite none of us

I am in a similar situation except I am the one with the younger children. I invite my DSIS and her DC to lots that that we do but we are never in DSIS' thoughts - we might get a WhatsApp last minute to something but other than that it is down to me to organise seeing her. She has been to my house approximately 5 times in the past 5 years - I always end up going to her house (similar deal, she moved away from our home town) but then there will be a social media post of her visiting her friends in literally the next street to me but she wouldn't bother meeting up with me.
There are no DM issues though, she gets on very well with her. I think she just prefers her friends and in laws to me and my family which is sad but I just have to suck it up and take the scraps I am thrown. We get on well when we do meet up so I never want to push it for fear of rocking the boat.
I just have to take the fact that our relationship is one sided and I obviously feel more for her than she does for me.

Perhaps I am copying my DM.

I think that DM is trying to just make herself feel better and less lonely, and it’s always been this way. DM and Dsis have never had a close RS, so nothing has changed. It’s not got worse or better in anyway. They are not close and although they get along, it’s not deep.

Whereas I feel like I have lost a close friend that I had for many years and things have changed, but I still have to see that person and now it’s all awkward. I’m not lonely, or trying to fill a gap, and I don’t ‘need’ her for anything, i don’t need support or help. I have friends, close lovely friends. But she was also once my friend, to me anyway. We shared a lot of (good and bad) memories and I don’t feel like I know her anymore

I accept they change, and I’ve been trying to navigate the changes without making it personal to me, getting too emotional about it. Today I felt emotional about it because it seems to go in a cycle - she’s posted on SM, feels guilty she didn’t invite us, now suddenly free to come over for a couple of hours. I don’t really want anyone to come out of obligation or guilt, I don’t know where I stand or if she even likes me

I hear you.

I have a mother just like yours.

I also have a sister with younger DC than mine.

You need to stand up to your mum. Kindly, but firmly.
Have days out with your mum, so she sees you and your DC, but exclude her from the days you have with your sister: and tell her. Be honest. “This is just for us guys today Mum, I’ll see you on Thursday” her feelings are NOT your feelings, nor your responsibility.

Speak to your DSis, explain how youre feeling and ask her “is it because of Mum?” Open it up, don’t let her blame you, accept the responsibility of it. Your sister will thank you for this, and your relationship will not sour because of difficult words.

Tell your sister that you can see what’s happened and that you won’t let it happen again. Hopefully it’s not too late for her to start to include you again. She probably misses you just as much

Where is the OH in all of this - does he come on the 6 weekly visit?

I might try to talk to her but we only talk superficially now. How is school going. Oh did you get your garden finished. You got a new car, how lovely.

If this was a friend I would have given up a long time ago trying to keep this up, perhaps I just need to stop making any effort 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yes he comes along every time.
We get on ok. Sometimes he just wants to watch sport though so will take himself off

Thank you @LovePoppy

@PookieDo I think you need to really step back and look at whether you are copying and/or enabling your mother’s behaviour.

From what you’ve posted I think that’s at the centre of it all.

Your sister is allowed relationships outside of the family but there seems to be this sense of obligation that you and your mother expect in how she should include you in everything.

Maybe the stately homes thread would help you look at this from a different perspective.

You say you don’t want to be in the middle and have to choose - but you have chosen your DM. You don’t want to upset your DM - but equally you don’t respect your DS choices either. If you did something with your DS your DM’s world wouldn’t implode.

You can navigate this easily if you are prepared to be assertive with your DM. But your own personal discomfort of saying and doing something perfectly reasonable to your DM trumps your RS with your DS and the RS of the cousins.

It is clear your DS doesn’t want DM around - this is reasonable if she is overbearing with DCs and if she has a distant RS with her.

You can be fair to both DM and DS as well as having the positive RS for the cousins and yourself. But you will need to grow a backbone and be prepared to endure a bit of discomfort from your overbearing DM.

Choose wisely. Your DS gave you a lot of time and invested herself in your family when they were young, you have a good RS with her but you are sabotaging it for your DM.

I am frustrated because as I have said, these are my feelings of some kind of rejection that I am trying to make sense of, not force her into anything.

I don’t want to be included in everything and have not said that, I’ve said I’m included in nothing - even things I have suggested myself. They are not the same thing

I’m going nowhere with trying to maintain what we once had that she no longer wants, I accept that. I also have no control over how she views our DM or the RS they have. 4 years ago Dsis and I would talk for hours on the phone, have nights out and in and have a lot of fun. Now I have awkward visits where everyone is very stilted and uncomfortable

If anyone is enabling DM it is Dsis not me, because I am much more honest with both of our DP when they do annoying things - she just avoids them. You don’t know our history, but generally speaking Dsis will just go LC with no explanation, they will be frantically trying to get in touch with her, then she just pops back up again randomly, nothing is ever discussed and it seems to feed into both DP’s annoying behaviour - she blows hot and cold with them instead of ever being honest, so they both seem to end up running after her trying to talk to her. If she finds this irritating, then she should deal with it. On multiple occasions I have had to be dsis ‘gatekeeper’ trying to keep our parents away from her (at her request) with a load of excuses ‘she’s busy’ in the end I just told them both they were annoying her, and why but I couldn’t make her talk to them if she didn’t want to. DM has got upset in the past about Dsis ignoring her for no apparent reason. I tend to not ignore my parents, but I will just tell them the truth.

Dsis has made herself an elusive creature. I am not elusive. I will respond to them, even if it isn’t what they want to hear. I am the older sister and I have always felt protective over her, and have stood up to both our parents time and time again. She just wouldn’t do this for me I think

Your attempts to keep everyone happy have backfired. You don’t need to explain anything to either parties about their relationships. You are enabling your DP to be overbearing and your DS to be avoidant.

They need to talk to each other and resolve their differences if they want to. But maybe your DS knows this is not possible and has gone LC. That’s not for you to tell your parents.

Does your DS see your DM at your house? I wouldn’t facilitate this - let your DS go to her directly.

Seems like straight talking is an issue in your family. You can absolutely speak with your DS and ask what the issue is and if you can meet other times. You could start off just the two of you? Sounds like you have a deep longterm RS that can you can draw on.

I just think by the time we come back together will it be too damaged?

Only if you let it!! Just bide your time, life comes and goes in waves and changes over the years. If you don't fall out then there is no reason you can't come back together when you both want to.

Im the older sister too and that makes it much harder as I have always looked after her and watched out for her. But now she doesn't need me, she has her two boys, and I have to let go of that relationship and move on to a more even relationship. Maybe that was part of the problem for me and my sister, she wanted to break free of that dynamic, and now we have established a more equal one.

Try not to over think it and attribute blame, or buy into your mothers behaviours. I know you are hurt, I was too, but forgiving her will help you feel better and you both move on. I don't want to come across all hippy, but that is what helped me.