Huge row and not sure what to do

[flipperlipper]

Over the past few months DH has been depressed and taking things out on me and to a lesser extent the kids. He's very up and down so ok one day, snappy the next, and crying the next. I'm really worried about him and want to help but it feels like I can't do or say anything right. At his worst there is lots of door slamming and talking to me in a way I find aggressive. I am hugely conflict avoidance and perhaps oversensitive but I often feel nervous when he's like this as I can't seem to do anything right. This evening I said the wrong thing (again) and he was snappy at me and I told him he's been treating me like crap which resulted in him telling me to get out of our bedroom.

I phoned my parents who live in England in tears and they phoned my in laws (which freaked me out as he has said in the past that if I ever bring them into our arguments he'd leave me). They turned up and I sat in car with them crying. They wanted to call the police but he's never laid a finger on me, just been verbally aggressive so I told them to leave it. I'm now sat in spare room just trying to figure next steps. I don't think I can carry on like this, not until he's sorted himself out, as it's an intimidating environment and I just never know what to expect so I dread coming home from work.

I really need practical help on what to do next. We are married and have a joint mortgage on a house; we put in equal deposit but I pay repayments and all the bills and have done for some time as he is self employed and work has been quiet for him for a year or more now. He looks after our 2 preschoolers part time since September while I'm at work. I suppose in an ideal world he'd move out, at least temporarily given that I'm paying for the house, but given his earnings I don't see where he'd go and I'm worried that as he the has kids in the afternoon legally he has more right to stay in the house? My parents have offered to come and stay to help with childcare if he does leave.

Also very anxious about the morning. What do I say / do? I'm scared of how he'll react if I ask him to leave. Do I need to get someone else to do our?

And I just feel so very sad. I love him and feel I've failed him and abandoned him if we split when he's so down but I can't carry on like this either.

I just can't bear seeing him, it's awful that I'll never be able to get him out of my life or that if the kids

OP I'm so very sorry that you are going through this. Please keep posting. There are many people here who can help and guide you. Start a new thread if you need to.

Many of us have been in similar situations and can see familiar patterns in your situation. My heart goes out to you.

I know it's so incredibly hard but you do need to try to see past the love and regret and sadness into the reality of this situation. Your DH's behaviour is abusive, unreasonable and unacceptable.

Try to keep the facts in mind. Make a list of you can, put aside the voice in your head that makes excuses for his behaviour and write down every single thing he has done and continues to do that upsets you. When I allowed myself to do this I found I had a list of epic proportions, it was enlightening and shocking and I never got round to my list of 'good things' .

The text book reaction of someone like your DH when you stand up to him will most likely be a rotating round of: kicking back as hard as he can via rage and unreasonable behaviour and blaming everyone except himself; ignoring reality and acting like nothing has happened; emotional meltdown and threats to harm himself.

Please don't be sidelined by this behaviour. I know it's incredibly hard but try to understand that he's simply avoiding reality and trying to throw you off course. It's worked for him in the past so of course he will try it with bells and whistles on in the hope that it will work again.

I know you will have a blur of worries, and questions and unknowns at the moment. This can make the situation seem impossible and take away your power to break free. However please know it's not an impossible situation- take one step at a time and use real life and online support. To my mind this first step is to get DH out of the house, deflecting his attempts to resist this as much as you can. Use the police, a solicitor, women's aid advice as needed.

There's nothing loveable about this man so why do you keep telling yourself that you love him? Even if you do, love simply isn't enough.

His quoting the wedding vows is hypocritical and manipulative but he does it because he knows you believe in 'love'. He seems to be gaining strength and confidence (abusing your DM so blatantly!) As you shrink. He's a vampire.

He knows he's still in control because he's pushed the boundaries pretty damn far and you're still clinging on. You need to disengage and get angry. This is who this man is. You're holding on to the man you thought he was. That person doesn't exist anymore (if he ever did).

He sounds extremely controlling and his behaviour is irrational and sounds like its escalating.

Get the wheels moving OP, you need him out.

Take up the individual therapy. It can be costly but most will recommend 6 sessions and then a break so isnt a never ending cost. Talk to the police about restraining or non mol orders to protect you all. He cannot simply come and to as he pleases to abuse you.

I agree with @blackcat86. Do consider investing in therapy for yourself. A good therapist will really help you cope and move forward.

He's thinking about divorce and finances. That is behind his attempt to position himself as the primary carer of your children.

I'm sorry, but I read that he has become more like this and also more spiritual. My guess would he that he's met someone spiritual and is having an affair with them. When men's abuse ramps up along with changes to preferences, it often (though not always) indicates a new voice in their ear. As they think they now have a new woman in domestic service, they position themselves to leave ... and blame it on all your "failings". 🤔

Good on you for calling the police. That sends a powerful message and will also be helpful in any child proceedings. I would caution that you should make a safety plan with the police and/or local d.v. support as leaving and the post separation period is actually the most dangerous time for women. His recent behaviour is highly concerning, particularly with his rage and entitlement about the house (money).

Keep your wits about you, don't let him in the house (change those locks, get an occupation order and non mol order if you can, tell the children only you open the door, including to Daddy) and never:

1. Have him in the house;
2. Ride in a car with him;
3. Meet him anywhere other than a busy, public place;
4. Find yourself alone with him for any reason (that includes being accompanied only by family, as in this instance).

Thank you so much everyone, these words really help and to know I'm not alone. I feel both pathetic that I've let it go on for so long but at same time I'm finding it so hard to believe it's not my fault. I've just called out of hours dr to try to get Valium or something. My heart rate is through roof, I'm shaking, I feel like I can't carry on.

Maybe he has a key stroke tracker on your phone or he's using the cloud against you? Can you get a tech savvy person to help you?

Thanks will try that

Oh god, this sounds bloody awful! I am so glad that your parents are supporting you.

In addition to the advice given, may I also suggest:
-speaking to solicitor about a Prohibited Steps Order? It's used for lots of things but in my case, it meant that my ex can't take our daughter (or have her unsupervised) without my written permission. The Judge allowed the initial hearing to be done ex parte, and the second hearing to be done via telephone (due to fact that I'm a nurse). At the second hearing, he put that PSO in place for a year, and ordered a Child Arrangements Order to be done at the same time (daughter to live with me full time, no overnight stays with ex, indefinitely). The CAO will last until daughter is in her teens.
-collect info on finances, pensions etc etc. Useful for when you speak to solicitor.
-put a freeze on any joint accounts (but make sure you have your own accounts in sole name).
-start putting together a diary of the sorts of things that have happened (re: his behaviour). Keep communication to email or text. This saved my arse as I was able to give things in detail with a good timeline of events.

I wish you all the best of luck xx

OP you are absolutely not pathetic. This has happened to many of us women who are strong and bright but have fallen into this trap. It's sometimes hard for others to understand, and it's easy to judge.....

Have you heard of the frog analogy? I feel it's relevant here- and you are the frog! It refers to the fact that if you drop a frog into very hot water it leaps right out. However, if you drop a into cool water and slowly turn up the heat, it doesn't react and will die from the hot water. I hope this makes sense- I found it useful!

It's not as easy as many of us would like to 'turn off' the love for these men, or to clearly see that it's none of your own fault. Recognise this, but know that it can be done- keep moving forward, make that list and refer to it if you need convincing!

You're bound to feel shaken and devastated. Anyone would. Take whatever help is on offer. Do get advice from the police, and a solicitor- this will really help you.

You can do this OP, really you can .

Thanks for saying I'm not pathetic. I feel pathetic but I know that I wouldn't think that of other people in this position so I need to be kind to myself.

Yesterday he asked if he could come and work on his car (he wants to sell it so he can move to America because apparently it's time he put himself first...). I want him to get it away so said yes, but only while we were out and he stuck to that.

My parents want me to to try to get a non molestation and occupation order after yesterday. I was hoping this could be avoided (not really sure I want the expense or to deal with his reaction...plus if I do that it really is sealing nail on coffin and a stupid part of me just can't let go) so I wondered whether we could avoid that by setting some ground rules (below). What do you think?
My parents think he's too busy unstable to see kids but my view is that he's angry with me not the kids and keeping him from them would make him worse. Any views?

Should I also add that if he doesn't agree I think it's time to see solicitors to come up with a legal agreement? Or is that antagonistic?

I’m off work the next 2 weeks and would like to pick up kids up at least some days. If there are days you’d like to pick them up, please let me know which and can you please either arrange for someone else to drop them off to the house at a prearranged time, or arrange to leave them with your parents and I’ll get them from there.

You mentioned you are planning on going away. If that’s the case can you let me know when you are going so I can arrange childcare

If you get a job that means you can’t collect the kids on certain/ all week days please let me know so I can arrange childcare

If you need to come in house, work on car etc but please let me know so I can make sure I’m not in. I can’t guarantee that my parents will be out, though

Can we please keep communication to the topic of arrangements for the kids / access to the house

I’m sure you already know this but you should be about to get benefits / housing benefit so you can sort out somewhere to live if you don’t want to stay with your parents or a friend.

I’d like you to return the spare car keys please. I’m sure your parents would lend you their car if you need it for work.

Oh and my mum met my father in law yesterday who said even he is scared of his own son, so I know it's not just me

I have no advise other than please keep in touch with everyone on this thread as we are all here for you and will support you through this . Sending you so many hugs 💕💐

My parents think he shouldn't have kids when he's behaving so aggressively though this is not really aimed at them. I'm worried he'll go mental if I do that to him. And to be fair he's never not returned them when he said he would, they always say they've had a nice time. Any thoughts?

I'm with your parents on this and think you need to look into a non mol order. How many more times would you have to phone the police? What if your mum wasn't there to phone the police? Him being mad and threatening you is not good for the children.

I've had to phone the police this morning for a neighbour as her ex was trying to kick the door down and revving his car engine, beeping his horn constantly because she wouldn't let him in. All this at 6.30am!

You shouldn't have to worry about him kicking off. Consult a solicitor.

I can see who you'd want to give him the list of instructions, but that will only work if he's prepared to listen and do what you ask. I think this is highly unlikely, so I'd go for a more formal approach personally.

In the case of my ex Partner I went to see a solicitor who gave me excellent advice. She helped me draft an email which set out how I wanted to proceed e.g. all communication via email. She also allowed me to cc her in on all emails which made gnosis appear more official and it was only at this point that my ex started behaving more reasonably (minus some initial desperate tantrums).

I'd honestly advise you to take some advice. A solicitor will be able to help you consider your options and decide what to do. I know this will cost money, but if you can possibly avoid it it is money very well spent.

I'd also take advice wrt him seeing the children. You do need reasonable grounds to do this, and courts and other official bodies take a grim view where this is done unnecessarily (I'm not suggesting you'd do this but it's worth considering).

I agree with @peoplepleaser1 (And what your parents say), the instructions that you have written are more than polite and reasonable, but would only work if your Ex is willing to listen to you and not act up, like he has been doing. If you can keep a paper trail, then that may help.

At the time of the PSO being done, my solicitor also wrote my ex a letter basically telling him to remain civil and polite to me or we would go down the non-mol order route (and whatever other route was deemed appropriate). Prior to that, I let the police (and my solicitor) know every time he kicked off at me (verbal abuse, made threats etc etc).

Since the PSO, he has been nice and polite. I don't think he believed that I would report things/apply for a PSO, but I was fed up of the nonsense and needed the peace of mind for myself and the children (we were fed up of being frightened).....and there was no way I would have gone to the stress and expense of all of that if he had remained polite, civil, amicable and not behaved how he did (ex also said that I was over-reacting ----> but the police, my solicitor and the Judge thought otherwise).

I wish you all the best xx

PS you're not pathetic, you're navigating a course that you never expected or wanted to take. It's scary, uncertain and an emotional rollercoaster. I'm a few months in and it's a LOT easier now. I'm trying to get divorce stuff sorted quickly before the PSO finishes next July. Take legal advice and then decide how you want to do things. x

Your proposed message to him is too reasonable and too polite; there are far too many 'please's! He is a terrifying man, he's threatened you, threatened your mum, even his own father is scared of him. Nothing you've written about him suggests that he is reasonable, so why are you so intent on believing you can reason with him?

Men who have never been violent before can suddenly escalate when they see their victim make plans to escape. A good friend of mine was in an emotionally abusive relationship for 7 years, but he'd never hit her. She finally had enough, told him it was over for good this time and she meant it; he beat her to an absolute pulp in front of their screaming children.

Please don't let yourself be blinded by your need to be fair and being 'the bigger person'; he's a monster, your safety needs to come before his wants.

I’ve just read your whole thread flipperlipper and feel so worried for you. You sound so lovely, you’ve tired so hard to hold your family together but unfortunately your H is not a good man and you can’t continue in this situation. You repeat throughout the thread that he’s never been physically violent as if that’s a plus point, but you shouldn’t need to keep repeating that, it should be beyond question. From what I’ve read I’m scared for you that it could escalate to violence. It would be brilliant if he’d listen to your list of requests, but I think he won’t. Listen to your parents, they can see the situation you are in without the emotional ties you are feeling to your H.

As @TicTac80 has said, legal advice really would be so helpful. It really helped me see more clearly that exP was unreasonable and helped me feel more confident in taking steps to make my life easier. You have several options, and a professional will help you find which option will work best for you.

In my case when the solicitor said simply that ExP was a bully and that I couldn't change, that but I could take steps to protect myself and DC the penny began to drop. It's really not so different from the steps you would help your children make to deal with a playground bully.

I know every case is different and every person is different, but please believe me when I assure you that so many people have been where you are today and there really are some text book type behaviours occurring on both sides. Let people who understand this help you to free yourself. Your life will be so much better if you can do this, and most importantly so will your DC's.

Thanks so much for the supportive messages. It really does help. It's been a quiet week fortunately with my dad doing all handovers with kids. Husband has texted saying he's missing me etc but I've said I can't see him until I'm confident that I wouldn't be scared of him and that I imagine this will not be any time soon.

Oh and have done loads of sorting and decorating this week so house is starting to feel less of a shit tip. That feels good. It's so nice being in a calm, relaxed house. Having said that my tolerance of kids is a bit low, think just because so exhausted by everything

I'm so glad your parents are there, supporting you. My mum died 2 yrs back and my dad died in the spring of this year, so I didn't have them to talk to (well, I had my Dad to talk to, up to the point he died obviously!). Let friends and work know too - mine couldn't have been more supportive or understanding. I didn't tell them about it to mudsling, but also so that they understand why I may not be on top form. I also let the schools know. You have nothing to be ashamed about, and you are NOT being "overdramatic". Just wanted to put that out there too.

I'm not surprised that you feel exhausted....you've been walking on egg shells/been on "high alert" for a long time, it's not easy at all. And I think that once you're not on "high alert", the exhaustion kicks in. Being in a calm and relaxed home is HEAVEN! I love the fact that the kids and myself are relaxed and our home is a peaceful one. I love being able to go to sleep and not worry about what might happen during the night. I love being able to make plans (i.e. have friends come over) and not have to worry about how he'll be; and I love being able to not worry about what I'll find when I get home from work. Sure I may be skint, and it might be hard work juggling full time work etc, but believe me, it's a LOT easier these days. Of course, I'm sad that things couldn't be salvaged (I loved him, and I do still love the guy I married) but I know that I tried my best over many months/years, and there was nothing more I could have done.