Some friendly words - part 2. It's over.

[ASmallBoxofChocolateBunnies]

First of all I wanted to apologise to the lovely people who were so supportive on my original thread. I had it deleted because I had a weird 'outing' experience, but it doesn't matter now because this evening I had the phone call telling me it was definitely over.

I thought we had been making some progress trying to work things out, but no, it's done.

22 years destroyed in the space of a few months.

In his words, something just switched off. Which is nice.

I don't believe there is an OW, but I suspect there may well be shortly.

Moving away for a job, living in the village he grew up in which he had never wanted to leave originally, and where he now feels more at home than he has done in years. And yes, he did say that, although he did apologise when I pointed out that didn't make me feel super wonderful.

Too much time alone, too much time to dwell and gnaw at all the little things that weren't quite right, all the little niggles, and BOOM suddenly he's able to completely shut, bolt and nail the door up behind him,

And I am just broken. I know I am strong, I know I can get through this, but blimey, it is just, pain.

It seems such a dreadful waste. Ironically, if he hadn't got this job earlier in the year, we may well have been in Las Vegas now, celebrating 20 years of marriage, which is somewhere I'd always wanted to go, and we were going to splurge, irregardless of our not terribly healthy finances.

I just did not see this coming. I still believe our niggles, issues etc were eminently fixable. But fixing them needed someone who was present. And he evidently hasn't been for the past few months.

It seems to have happened very quickly in his head. There was a catalyst of moving within the village 2 months ago at which point it's like a light went out.

So we never had a chance really, he never said how he was feeling because there doesn't seem to have been a period of doubt, just love one day, nothing the next.

Have to work out how to tell the children (well, young adults).

As is so often the case, the one person I would turn to, talk to, the one person I could rely on to have my back, to make me feel better just by being there...is the very person who has broken me.

Of course I still love him. He's been my love, my person, my best friend for all this time, and to lose all of those is horrifying.

We 'got' each other so much, on so many levels just not having that is more than I feel I can bear. I feel like I'm bursting out of my skin.

When he first told me how he felt, and then when we were talking so I wasn't sure, but hoped there was a chance, I thought that limbo was bad, and actually knowing might feel better. It doesn't.

If anyone is there, please could you spare a moment.

I am very lucky, I have some wonderful friends, but at the moment I just can't go to bed and I feel, just, horrible.

Thank you

I wouldn't send the letter. He'll either open it, snort and tear it into pieces, or use it to show everyone (including his possible woman) how deranged and deluded you are.

Why not wait a while? Give it, say, six weeks. Then see how you feel. You may not want to send it then or you may be even more enraged and think he definitely deserves to hear your truth. But those intervening weeks -preferably with contact only regarding the children - will be enough.

It took me a about a year to stop calling him love. Or by his pet name. It is habit.

You have to do what is right for you. And hopefully it will bring you some peace.

OP you’re a good writer, and writing is therapeutic in itself, so a journal is a great idea. Also the focus of a private journal is analysis of you and your thoughts, while a letter involves someone else. He is focused only on himself now, so take a leaf and focus only on you. Write it all down.

Re mid-life crisis. God I hate that excuse. Everyone said to me ‘is he having a MLC?’ No, he’s being a self-absorbed prick, that’s all. Nothing existential, he’s just not a decent person.

All your picking over and introspection is good. About six months after we split I reached a conclusion on what had happened and formulated my verdict on him. I delivered it to him very calmly, face-to-face: fun guy, great dad to small children, struggled to be a dad to teenage children, failed as a dad to youngest DD overall, did OK with other two. Bad husband. Weak, irresponsible, failure in the workplace, poor communicator. Terrible with money. Treated himself constantly, ignored the fact I had no indulgences for me. On balance, I regretted having ever tied myself to him, and I would do much better alone. He was visibly shocked at my analysis, but didn’t dispute it. And to be fair, in the years since he has tried to make amends to me and my DD.

Superb, the repetition is a killer isn't it? I said on another thread I guess it's partly because we have no real answers, and can't help but worry, and worry at it because we want to be able to uncover that hidden sense that will make us go, 'ah, yes now I get it.'

I am in a constant repetition loop, and all I hope is that I will end up boring myself to the point I leave it alone.

I haven't been able to work out which is better/worse. That these men were terrific actors and it was all shit all along, or that they were capable of being decent, loving men then something happened and their inner weakness came out.

I hope your busyness helps this weekend.

Zaphod, I'm at least going to run it past the counsellor next week. If nothing else the writing will be cathartic. I really don't know how he would respond, anyway. I like to think he'd have the courtesy to read it and not flash it about, but that would be H Mark 1, not this upgraded version - it's like the move from Windows 7 to Windows 8. 7 was a bit clunky but relatively straightforward and user friendly. 8 was a shitshow, completely counter-intuitive and didn't really make a lot of sense.

unicorns, I think one of the scary things is just not knowing what is right for me. Everything is so out of kilter, I don't know my arse from my elbow, let alone my lovely H from my stinking wankbadger!

Tiger, thanks re: writing - I am definitely in the 'why use 5 words when you can use 20' camp. I haven't really written any of this journal-style, but I might try. I seem to find it easier to write 'at' H at the moment.

I get what you say about mid-life crisis. But I do wonder if there can be a number of factors that build up, and then there is some tipping point, whether that's getting your head turned, having a health scare, or just a particularly virulent bout of self-pity. And then suddenly it's run for the hills, reinvent yourself, and sod the collateral damage. And I guess once you've started down that route, it's far easier to keep going than to stop and say 'woah' and have to face yourself.

And then of course you have to create your noble victim narrative, because no one, not even yourself can be allowed to know quite what a monumental arse you've been.

But you can't outrun yourself forever, and some time it will come back and bite you. Mostly I don't think there's any turning back, even if you do ultimately at least take a peek at your arse-ness. If only because you can't lose face.

And I do wonder why it is that it does seem to be mainly men who do this. Is it just because, at least where children are concerned, women generally don't have the luxury of that level of self-absorption?

Certainly not saying it's all men, and no women, but it does seem to be more of a male thing.

Anyway, long-winded as ever.

But Tiger, I am very struck by your hitting him with both barrels of your verdict. I like that a lot. And I am glad it had the impact on him that it did.

That’s exactly it OP: I went through shit too, not just him, but I didn’t conclude that the only option was to be an arse. I stood and fought, owned my mistakes, took my responsibilities, dug deep. I didn’t run away.

In the end all the introspection and questioning and agony can mean you end up loving and valuing yourself more. Snd that is a really good thing.

Night night

Mine was too young for a MLC, but he was failing badly at a course he was taking for a new career - a career I was involved in and knew (and told him) he wasn't suited to. It was the first time in his life that he'd had to face failure (he'd always been very clever). And it was as if, having failed, he wanted to get rid of everything that reminded him of that failure; top of the list was me.

So I think your 'reinvention' theory is good, Small. They literally want to be someone else and anything that holds them to the person they used to be, has to go.Which is how they shrug off children and people they were previously attached to - it's all reminders of the 'old' them, the person who failed or who had flaws they can't live with any more.

Welcome to the New Man! I'm also sure that guilt and 'what have I done?' kicks in, but unfortunately for them it kicks in far far too late to undo the damage.It can take years, by which time their partner has moved on, seen them for what they are, and certainly isn't going to pat them gently, say 'there there' and take them back to be waited on and cossetted with pity and sympathy.

Women tend not to behave the same way because of kids. You can't reinvent yourself whilst washing school uniform and searching for lost shoes, even if it is in a different house.

Tiger, that's it, isn't it? You 'dig deep'. You don't run away. And that's one of the things that has blindsided me. We have both had to dig deep on several occasions over the years, and we have, and been strong together.

But this time I think the fact we weren't physically together was the biggest issue. Made it far to easy to be introspective and far to easy to conclude that the real problem was...me.

Just as you say too, Zaphod. H had far too much time to think. And dwell on past failures. He always had a big ego (which yes, I fed), so of course it is much easier to place blame elsewhere than accept that he is not the big 'I am' he always thought he was.

The laughable thing is that he has walked away from someone who accepted him, warts and all, who never judged him according to success/failure criteria and always had his back. Who didn't care about any of those things, who just wanted him to be happy. And who would have supported him through all the angst.

But he has put his life in the dock, found all the evidence for the prosecution, ignored the defence, and now needs a criminal to punish. And naturally, that can't possibly be him.

Which is where that big 'switch' occurs.

Of course he can be oh-so-reasonable talking about his happy new life (and be slightly surprised I'm not cheering him on), how he wants us to be friends, and even in his dissecting of how it is all my fault, because the truth he has created must surely be obvious to absolutely every right-minded person. There is no room for any dissent. And also why the facade of reasonableness crumbles so quickly when challenged.

Nothing must be allowed to blot his lovely fresh new sheet.

Because the knowledge that this is all a giant pile of shit is not that far from the surface. And far, far to unpleasant and scary to look at.

And you know, I can see the attraction. I can see how much pleasanter it might be to reinvent yourself far away from all the shit. So what is the difference between me and him? The difference between you amazing women and your wankbadgers? I think it's simply that we are not weak. We are not scared of ourselves. We don't define ourselves by some weird measure of success/failure.

His weakness and fear was stronger than any other feeling of love, loyalty, kindness, fairness and even the friendship he professes. Friends don't dump on friends.

And I do think he will end up facing 'himself' at some point, and I do think he will have a 'wtf' moment. It might be next week, a year or 10 years, but it will happen. I have, to a much lesser extent, seen it happen with him before. It always comes home to roost.

I don't think he'd ever tell me though. He also has a streak of stubbornness about a mile wide.

I can't lie though, I am still in that place where if he did want me back, I would probably say yes. I can objectively dissect all this shit, but bottom line is I still love him. I still think that lovely decent man is in there. And the sad thing is, I think I'm probably right about that. Sad for me, and sad for him.

So I'm going to write my letter, rewrite it, analyse it and then? I don't know. Bin it, burn it, keep it, send it. I'll decide at some point.

You are right, Tiger, all the prodding and dissecting will help ultimately, make me, and all of us doing it, stronger.

Still hurts like a bastard though.

I think the dissecting and prodding works in your advantage, Small. You will highlight the faults and failings and ensure that you never go that way again. The men, putting all the faults and failings onto us, are destined to repeat the same behaviours over and over, because they can't learn. It can't possibly be their fault, therefore they never have to ensure they don't do it again.

Whereas we are busy learning and adapting to ensure we never meet the same twat twice.

There is a point when you can start to stop the cycling through obsessive thoughts. Our brains are wired to do this as we are looking for meaning and making sure that the pain of what happened doesn't hit us again. If only we understood it then we can control it or avoid it. But we can't control it. Someone else made a decision and didn't include us in it. They have gone.

Do you continue to give them headspace?

I found living in the present helped. Mindfulness lite. What a nice tree. Isn't that a nice song on the radio. It is hard but it can help stop the obsessive thoughts.

Look at the website Lessons for the end of a marriage. That has lots of good stuff.

Thanks Zaphod & mostly.

Well, things have changed a bit. Just had long conversation with H. No need to write my letter as we have talked over pretty much all of my thoughts. It actually was more 'him' than he has been for a long time, and as far as I can tell, honest.

He's backtracked on all the blame and justifications, all the finding things wrong with our relationship going back years.

He basically just doesn't know. All he does know is that it's like a light went out, and he no longer sees me in his future. Potentially it was the physical distance, and most likely if he hadn't gone away, we would not be having this conversation.

He has been seeking justifications, seeking to blame, but there isn't any. It just happened, and he feels what he feels.

He acknowledged my feelings and the hurt he has caused. But it just is.

And I was able to articulate some of my thoughts and feelings and have them 'heard'.

I think this is a better place than having all those questions, all that anger at the injustice. I think so.

He said he never had feelings there were problems beforehand, and thinks he just picked things out to try and make sense of it himself. But actually there is no sense to find because it doesn't make sense. All he knows is that he no longer loves me.

It still bloody hurts. But at least I won't have those recriminations circling around. It felt honest. It felt like how his mind works. It felt true.

I will still doubtless dig away at what ifs, the biggest of which being what if he hadn't got the job.

But there is nowhere else really to go than moving forward without him.

I can't see any way that he will change his mind now. I still don't understand how you could reach those conclusions without your head being in a mess, but it happens, doesn't it? People do just lose the feelings. It does seem that being alone, being away was essentially it. I still think he's fooling himself. Even if he's not blaming me for all his ills, I still think he's running away. But it is what it is.

It really, really hurts. And at least I didn't send a letter.

Of course he still could be being dishonest, I know that. But I don't think so.

I feel so empty. But perhaps I am lucky? Perhaps being able to have this conversation, however much it hurt to know there wasn't anything I could have done, will help in the long run? At least I won't keep questioning, keep going through the he said, I said or he did, I did.

Although he does appear to have actually forgotten some conversations and things that happened, which I do find odd. I do think despite his words now that he did seek justification to himself, and allowed that 'light' to go out, rather than it just happening.

And it hurts so much. But at least I might be able to move on easier now.

Bunnies, I feel for you. It does sound as if your husband has been honest, and at least you no longer need to blame yourself. I am sending you kind thoughts from the same place.

Thank you Superb. Sending my thoughts and comradely hugs back to you.

Had another long conversation, a continuation really.

I do feel it's a better starting point for moving forward. I really do. I can't help the what-ifs that remain, most of which are circumstantial (what if he hadn't got the job) for example. I do still have the what if he hadn't let himself get so up in his own head, what if he had said something at the time he was questioning, what if I had done some things differently so he may not have reached that point, but I don't have that being blamed element at least.

I can't lie. I do think he's wrong. But perhaps I can better see a way of accepting it.

I also can't lie I have had hope that he would change his mind, and being entirely honest I still do, particularly as I can see more 'my person' there. But he doesn't sound confused any more, so I have to get rid of that hope somehow.

But oh, it hurts. I still love him so very, very much and it just hurts so much.

Oh @ASmallBoxofChocolateBunnies my heart is breaking for you. I'm so sorry Be kind to yourself, heartbreak is just horrendous. Did you see I'm my list of books I have the Paul McKenna book, I can mend your broken heart. There are some exercises you can do to help you manage this pain and reduce it. Please do have a look x

Thank you Shin, that is very kind. I will look at that book too.

I haven't looked at the others I downloaded. I feel very raw again just now. But I will do. xx

OP I’m pleased you had the conversation properly but I feel your pain at the finality of it. I hope you’re as OK as you can be. In your shoes I think I would aim not to be open to more conversations like that. And I’m sorry but be ready to hear that the OW is more of a reality than it appeared. It’s an OW, not distance or time, that make feelings turn off.

Hope all is well Bunnies. Sunday afternoons are a difficult time. Sending you kind thoughts.

Thank you both.

Superb, Sunday wasn't too bad. I was strangely calm most of yesterday. Woke up today with raging stomach ache and didn't make it to work. Slept most of day.

Tiger, I know that must be a possibility.

Where I am at the moment is that the 'light' doesn't just go out in the snap of fingers. That's bullshit. If no actual (ow) catalyst. Thinking over everything I know of him, and a few things he's said recently, he has had so much time sitting, thinking in self-pity in his much-beloved (!) 'home', he has looked back and realised (more or less his words) that his life as not gone as he intended, that he has failed to be the successful person he wanted to be. This is far too scary to contemplate, so he has shut everything in a box that reminds him of this.

It is far, far easier to then forge ahead, unencumbered, rather than actually have to face these things. I can see the attraction in many ways. There have been times when things have been particularly hard that I quite fancied the idea of just disappearing, leaving everything behind.

Difference is, I'm not a fucking coward.

And yes, I have seen him do this type of reinvention before, on a much smaller scale. Rather than deal with an unpalatable truth (self or otherwise), he'll close it away, then over time reinvent it, or forget it. The downside of this is that I have also seen what happens when he either suddenly thinks about it again, or something triggers what he's closed off. Lots of regrets, self-recrimination etc. And of course, as I was there with him, sometimes I headed him off from shutting stuff off.

But this time I wasn't there, and it was even scarier, so boom! Shut in a box.

I am puzzled also by how he talks about dd & ds. He has always adored them, and been a great dad, and he talks about their relationship etc, but hasn't done things I would have expected, like try and come down to see them. There is a distance in the way that he speaks.

Plus he doesn't want anything from here. This would seem to include photos and other things bought or accumulated over our marriage.

So it's not just me he's shutting away, it's his whole life for the past 20 years. Which really doesn't seem healthy, particularly bearing in mind how depressed he has been.

So somewhere along the line, this will come back to bite him. What angers me about that is that by the time he realises, it will be too late, and that will make the whole thing more senseless, more of a waste than it already is.

And I'm a bit stuck at the moment. I realise that I have basically been waiting for that text, that email, that phone call which will be him proclaiming his mistake. I 'know' it will come, even though at the same time I 'know' it won't.

I actively don't want to take steps to move on, to get stronger, because that will mean accepting that this is all real, that this is my life.

It's not quite denial, because I know this is real, this is my life, so I have to accept it, but It was all so good, so lovely in so many ways until just a couple of short months ago, I can't bear it.

I haven't really cried for a couple of days, which seems odd as that's pretty much all I have been doing since the original phone call. In many ways I am more tired than anything, so maybe this is me moving forward, even though I don't want to!

And it is all useless going over it all, bottom line is he doesn't love me any more. And that's so hard.

I am still waiting for ex to tell me it was all a mistake. I know there is no going back. But I can't seem to fully let go.

Even now so much further down the line. I do think though that once i start dating and actually in a new relationship those feelings will stop, because he will of been replaced in my emotions. (Does that make any sense)

The thought of it terrifies me but I'm not going to sit and pine for him either. 2020 will be my year. I hope 😀

Hope you are feeling less sick today. Rest while you can.

How are you doing, Small? I said before about my XH sloughing us off because we reminded him of failure. And another woman had turned his head in that case too, which was the catalyst for him deciding that he no longer loved me and needed to get away.

It's sad how predictable it all in, in some ways. They get a bit depressed and, BANG, the only solution is to pretend that the problem never existed in the first place. Mine took stuff from the house that he wanted, but I found a lot of things that had meant a lot to both of us (daft things, like stuffed toys we'd had 'conversations' with) in the bottom of the wheelie bin after he'd gone. As though none of the background fun and kindnesses could travel along with him.

Again, it's just time. Every day is a day closer to feeling yourself again.

Zaphods. Exactly the same for me after 26 years together. It’s so so sad.

zaphod and superb that is unbelievably sad - I’m so sorry

unicorns, I'm sorry you still have those feelings, but love the 'wonder-woman'-ness of 2020 being your year - you certainly deserve it.

Zaphod & Superb, shit that is utterly crap. I just can't understand that mentality at all. As I said I can understand to some degree the attraction of just walking away from all the crap you accumulate over the years, but there is so, so much collateral damage.

I would, however, love to be able to put some of it in a box and shut it away right now. Been to GP and have anti-D's.

I know some of how I'm feeling is to do with other stuff going on, but with it all mixed up together I'm just barely functioning. Hopefully they will kick in a few weeks.

Next counselling session tomorrow so that should be good.

Got through work today, which I wasn't sure I would, and had another cathartic cry in the car.

Am side-stepping the whole 'not wanting to take that step forward because that will make it real' thing by trying to avoid thinking of it at all. Just too tired.

I am truly sorry you guys have had this shit thrown at you as well. We don't deserve it, and we are awesome.

It’s good to look at what you’ve achieved in spite of what’s going on. That shows how strong you are. Getting counselling organised, seeing the GP, coping with work, looking after the children, these are all positive things. All he has done is run away. I keep reminding myself that he planned his steps and then told me what he was doing and did it. I am behind the curve. That will not always be so. But now I need time to gather strength and recover confidence. And then I am going to kick his smug, superior backside so hard ...

Thank you Superb, you sound so strong.

You're right, I have got some things done which is positive.

But I am still at the 'please come back to me' stage in my head, rather than 'kicking superior backside'.

Am very puzzled actually. I emailed him about trying to come down and see dd & ds, offering to make myself scarce and help with finances if needed. No reply at all.