Some friendly words - part 2. It's over.

[ASmallBoxofChocolateBunnies]

First of all I wanted to apologise to the lovely people who were so supportive on my original thread. I had it deleted because I had a weird 'outing' experience, but it doesn't matter now because this evening I had the phone call telling me it was definitely over.

I thought we had been making some progress trying to work things out, but no, it's done.

22 years destroyed in the space of a few months.

In his words, something just switched off. Which is nice.

I don't believe there is an OW, but I suspect there may well be shortly.

Moving away for a job, living in the village he grew up in which he had never wanted to leave originally, and where he now feels more at home than he has done in years. And yes, he did say that, although he did apologise when I pointed out that didn't make me feel super wonderful.

Too much time alone, too much time to dwell and gnaw at all the little things that weren't quite right, all the little niggles, and BOOM suddenly he's able to completely shut, bolt and nail the door up behind him,

And I am just broken. I know I am strong, I know I can get through this, but blimey, it is just, pain.

It seems such a dreadful waste. Ironically, if he hadn't got this job earlier in the year, we may well have been in Las Vegas now, celebrating 20 years of marriage, which is somewhere I'd always wanted to go, and we were going to splurge, irregardless of our not terribly healthy finances.

I just did not see this coming. I still believe our niggles, issues etc were eminently fixable. But fixing them needed someone who was present. And he evidently hasn't been for the past few months.

It seems to have happened very quickly in his head. There was a catalyst of moving within the village 2 months ago at which point it's like a light went out.

So we never had a chance really, he never said how he was feeling because there doesn't seem to have been a period of doubt, just love one day, nothing the next.

Have to work out how to tell the children (well, young adults).

As is so often the case, the one person I would turn to, talk to, the one person I could rely on to have my back, to make me feel better just by being there...is the very person who has broken me.

Of course I still love him. He's been my love, my person, my best friend for all this time, and to lose all of those is horrifying.

We 'got' each other so much, on so many levels just not having that is more than I feel I can bear. I feel like I'm bursting out of my skin.

When he first told me how he felt, and then when we were talking so I wasn't sure, but hoped there was a chance, I thought that limbo was bad, and actually knowing might feel better. It doesn't.

If anyone is there, please could you spare a moment.

I am very lucky, I have some wonderful friends, but at the moment I just can't go to bed and I feel, just, horrible.

Thank you

Evening ladies, I only just managed to check in and read all your news. Had such a busy day. Which is good as no time to feel gloomy but I am floored now and not able to string two sentences together. I will be back tomorrow. Much love to you all and sleep well. xx

Bigpooh that is shit, next time let her get her own shopping. She doesn’t deserve anything from you. I guess a good thing though is if you end up having shit people in your life, it’s useful to know so you can get rid of them all at once. Clear out the toxic waste in one fell swoop. You are worth more. I will raise a cocktail to you on that beach!

And Superb I am sorry your mother is being so unsupportive. She sounds like someone whose focus is on how things affect her. No empathy. Your troubles are inconvenient to her, so she blames you. Try and focus on those supportive friends who make you feel good, and appreciate your true worth.

I think it’s only natural to feel drained after counselling. I know I did. Especially if you’re bringing out stuff to examine that you may not have really looked at before. It’s so raw and exposing. But it is ultimately good to bring things out into the sunlight to stop them festering.

It’s interesting what you say about your H & mum having similar personalities, and going for what is familiar. My parents were lovely, but there was sometimes a dynamic between them I didn’t care for. Dad could be very laid back most of the time, but if he decided something, he could be utterly selfish. And my mum would give in for an easy life. H suggested recently I maybe did the same. Which I’d never considered. I think my motivations for enabling H were different, but I will need to unpick. Uncomfortable.

Ooh, Still, there is something satisfying in playing your cards close to your chest, knowing you have plans!

And Jac, H was/is very good at manipulating and very, very quick thinking. Plus he’s usually planned so far in advance, along with several different options, it’s easy to get turned around.

And turning things around on you – a classic! I think they get so mired in the muck and lies they’ve spread, they automatically attribute the same to others. It’s just another way of holding back that mountain of shit they’ve constructed to stop it collapsing around their ears. Now there’s a good mental picture! They can’t possibly acknowledge how utterly appalling they’re being, because they avoid facing themselves at all costs. But there has to be a ‘bad guy’, and if it’s not them, then it must be…you!! Bastards.

I really am dreading the conversation with H. In the first place he will not be expecting me to be taking control of the situation and will not like it. He will much prefer the idea of me remaining a shell-shocked bundle of emotion. And finances, oooh, he will not like that at all. So I will hit him with the news that I’m starting the ball rolling on the divorce, need his pension valuations and, oh yes, I want child support.

I am going to remain calm, clinical and dispassionate. I hope I can pull that off. I have seen him in action often enough in business dealings, so will channel him. Again, he will hate that.

And I hate this whole thing. I am still so much playing catch up that although I know the reality, I still have him in my head so much as my lovely loving husband. Hardly a day goes by when I’m not expecting him to suddenly appear (or I will wake up) and everything is as normal. The change has all been so quick and it makes me so sad.

This evening’s nice things were stocking up on a pile of library books – more sick and twisted thrillers to cheer me up (!), and watching some comedy shows with dd. Taking every silver lining I can get, I have been introducing her to some classic 80s/90s comedy which she is really enjoying. Oh, and alcohol!

Love to all, and here’s to one day closer to our ‘best lives’ (hate that expression usually, but seems appropriate here!)

Oh, and I’ve started listening to the Sally Phillips podcast which is very good. Really good, thank you for mentioning it! Quite funny in parts which stopped me from falling asleep at 3am because it made me lol... but still need a third attempt to (maybe) get through it all. Sleep got the better off me both times I put it on. Just so exhausted. Night all. xx

@SoTiredTonight, I had to listen to the podcast 3 times for the same reason. It manages to be funny and soothing at the same time. Glad you’re enjoying it. Being tired and sleeping at night is a good thing too!

@ASmallBoxofChocolateBunnies, you are right about getting rid of the toxic waste in one go. I’ve been thinking about that lately. You have correctly identified my mother too! Focus on my issues prevents her from getting the attention she requires for her own issues. I have supportive friends but they live at some distance. My Dad enabled my Mum in her bad behaviour and tantrums. I am coming to the conclusion that I was the enabler for my husband. My needs always, always came second to his. I was perhaps afraid of his reaction if I stood my ground. Odd, as I’m a very strong person in normal life. Interesting and I guess it will do me good in the longer run to think about these things. I would prefer just to be having fun.

Our spouses have planned ahead because they have been planning for a while. They didn’t make the final move until the situation was favourable to their position. And they had external support already lined up. There are so many threads on here where you can see that the woman are at the start of the same story. We were, sadly, low in the list of their priorities. To that extent they will be ahead of us. We have to work hard to deal with what’s been thrown at us while in emotional turmoil. That is hard.

My husband did not like the fact that I made the first move on formalising the separation by providing the financial disclosure form and setting a date for exchange. I don’t know when our discussions will start but I am not looking forward to them.

I find the mornings difficult. It seems to take me a while to get going mentally, and the most scary thoughts come in the early hours. There’s so much I need to get on with, and motivation is in short supply. This is about changing the focus and room in the head for me instead of him.

Your evening sounds like fun. I love an old comedy. And thrillers! And alcohol ...

Have a good day everyone. I’m off to meet a friend for lunch. xx

woolybear Thanks for asking, I feel terrible really! Sorry don't even know if this is the correct thread to sound off on. It's hard because I lay blame at my door, blame for walking out on my marriage, over the years dh has been terrible at managing money, getting stupid cars on finance, silly gambling and then having a weed addiction and never being honest about his wage because he would get into a mess and owe friends money, so for example his wage would never be what it was supposed to be or he would tell me he got paid less than he did and keep the extra etc, which then led to him feeling babied that he had to have a personal money allowance etc its hard because it makes him sound like an awful person but he didn't do it to be malicious he was panicked, young, selfish and immature and scared of me really incase i would go mad about yet another money lie etc, he felt like he was never enough for me and that i never shown him affection but when money is so shit from his doing alot of the time then it's hard to be so loving who is being selfish with family money but the other side of him was so kind and harmless, he really does love me and the kids and he has a nice nature, he never abused me, put me down, never had huge credit card debts, he was just basically a scallywag with money!

I walked out over the most stupid of all lies out of all the money secrets and hard times weve had ive gone over a small thing but i felt i had to make a stand to not lose credibility in my threats that if he lied again i would leave! He was turning his life around in the last week, promising to not lie to me, being honest with money, doing great with pay rises at work, he gave up weed and now we have split up I feel just as it was getting good. We were saving for a deposit at his parents and they will no longer have us back, he accepts he has lied in the past and takes blame but he still says to me you did this, you walked out and ruined our chances of getting a house etc, now i feel anxiety setting in that i did all of this!

I seen him yesterday and we hugged and awkwardly kissed it was like a habit and i felt good i could see him staring at me in a loving way etc then i got home and he rang me to ask for an opinion on him getting car finance at £240 a month! It felt like a smack in the face, all the money crap we have been through and him being irresponsible with money and now it scraps any chance of getting back together because how could i go back to a life when we were meant to be saving and buying a house and now we'd have a debt for 4 years, we arent high earners £240 would be alot a month for a 12grand car! He says he has to make himself happy and I get he can do what he wants now with his own wage now we have split but now it completely rules it out i feel of getting back together to have took more financial strain on, or maybe I am controlling, maybe i dont value his choice in making decisions as a family.

Sorry this is sooo long, can anyone tell me if i am wrong or right, i am blaming myself now and it makes me feel sick, i just keep thinking of his good points and thinking it must have all been me!!

@Coughgate, popping in on my way home from lunch to say this is not your fault. You are not to blame. The straw that broke the camel’s back happened and you chose to leave. What happened yesterday shows that he has not changed. He tried to hoover you back in. You started to trust him, and he immediately undermined that trust. He asked your opinion about something he knew would trigger you. A partnership isn’t about one person being happy, but both sharing excitement about a plan. Your H has put himself first for a long time. You need to put yourself first now. You are not to blame. You are right. You feel terrible because you are disappointed by him again. Do something nice for yourself please. x

Yes you are correct I am disappointed because he is re-inforcing the actions that caused so many problems in the marriage, making impulsive financial choices and thinking about the now and not any consequences and i suppose i wanted to be proved wrong although he can obviously do what the hell he likes now his money is his own, it feels like a kick in the teeth because yes we have both said it is over (although i thought we were different and always worked through anything) but now i feel like it really would be over because last week we were saving for a house and getting our lives on track to be set up for old age etc and now he is going to have a big expense hanging over him for years on end and now my options are to maybe reconcile in months or years to come and get nowhere in life financially and for my future because saving for a house or even gaining a mortgage would be a set back by this car finance or never get back together because of a car it feels like! Anyway it's not my problem now i suppose he can spend his money on what he likes but it just confirms our split even more, we couldnt afford to try and get a house with 2 children etc with this car, i suppose i always had hope but now that's gone unless I want to struggle each month for a car payment and struggle financially for more years on end just have we have for the past decade and no im not into money or a lavish lifestyle i just want to not worry where the bill money is gonna come from and be so tight each month. We really love eachother so thats whats hard, the love is there but we dont see eye to eye on money so its a massive shame to end a marriage over money!!

Thankyou for your words xxx

Superb, I am really pondering the whole 'being an enabler' issue. I knew I had fallen into that camp over the last year pre-his new job. I can remember wanting to keep him from falling into an even deeper depression, so made sure to be super cheer-leady. Because that's what you do for the team, isn't it?

However, I suspect I may have been doing it for longer than that. I know I didn't for a long time, and was quite happy to stand my ground. But I think after a few of the tough things we went through (business & financial losses) I think we both lost a bit of vim. So I am not really sure. And that bothers me. He did say to me once, years ago, something along the lines that if I let him have his own way too much, he would a) come to expect it and b) lose a bit of respect for me. I'd always borne that in mind, but perhaps lost it, and maybe that's what happened? Although dealing with depression was never part of the equation.

I'm over-analysing again, aren't I?

I feel almost in 'fight or flight' mode over this conversation I need to have with him. I feel myself panicking when I think of it.

And I keep thinking, 'No, this can not be H I am anticipating a legal/financial quarrel with! ' because in my head are the many times we went to concerts and danced and giggled. Always a favourite thing. Or the many seasons of a tv show we watched, adding character nicknames, stupid references and dodgy accents each episode. Intimacy. Our almost mantra-like repeating of how much we loved each other, how good we were for each other, how I was everything he never imagined he'd find, soulmates etc etc. And that is so recent, I just can't comprehend what happened.

Sorry, really struggling.

Drinks with work friends this evening who are in/have been in a similar situation. Going to vent and swear a lot.

Convo with H at some point tomorrow - I was going to text and ask when would be a convenient time, but why should I warn him? I shall just pick a time and call.

Then a little clothes shopping. And house tidying. And after convo, probably mucho slumpo.

BTW, agree with Superb, Coughgate - not your fault at all.

@Bunnies I can relate with the while ‘this cannot be H’. I go through exactly the same, a programme due to restart that we used to watch and I was really excited, then suddenly questioning whether we will still watch together in future. Same with holidays. Jokes and silliness that no one else got, that always felt unique to us. Now seems so long ago. I think of him in the way of ‘old H’, the easygoing guy he used to be, the laughs we used to have. He used to be so much fun. Now it’s like everything is an issue or a problem, he’s cynical all the time and just generally seems a different person to the one I married. He only seems happy when he’s with his family and I’ve started really resenting that and them. I avoid family gatherings where I can because I get so pissed seeing this totally different person. And I used to love hanging out with them. Now it’s a chore most of the time.
Yes, you probably are overanalysing, but that’s how some of us cope, I’m the same. It’s trying to make sense of it all when it doesn’t make sense.
Enjoy your drinks tonight, I’m sure it’ll do you good to share with RL friends. x

sotiredtonight and bunnies over analyser here too! If I'd have just let things go, remembering the good times, thinking noone knows him like me etc. Anyway I have been looking at YouTube videos and I have a name of what my dh did over the years and it was financial infedility so i feel better for a moment knowing theres a name for it because I do feel lied to and hurt from all the years and then I go back to making excuses and thinking but he wasn't that bad

@ASmallBoxofChocolateBunnies, I don’t think you are over-analysing. You are being reflective, and that’s important. Strong women (and you are obviously a strong woman) get sucked in to enabling passive, lazy, men. In order to make anything happen the woman leads the way, and the man tags along without direction. It’s probably more prevalent if you have children. I can see that I made just about everything happen in our relationship. He sat back and let me, and then got resentful. He was completely hen pecked by the old girlfriend, so I’m not sure how that will work out. Oh well, not my problem.

I’m panicking about the conversation too. It’s natural. Anticipation is going to be worse than reality, I suspect. All the feelings you describe match my feelings precisely (were we perhaps married to the same man and now discover bigamy as well as wankbadgering?).

Enjoy the venting over many drinks. Your plan for tomorrow sounds fun. I’ve got the codependency group and then cinema.

I really hope the conversation goes well. Stay true to yourself and don’t be undermined.

@SoTiredTonight, we seem to be on the same page on memories. I’m trying to recall how badly I have been treated in the last few months to keep me strong. Often doesn’t work but it helps to try. I hope you are opening a bottle yourself. I feel a g & t coming on. Xx

I just have that feeling that I did too much for him.

Same as you all. Stupid little things like his mannerisms we wud laugh at. TV, music . Just too much. A mr whippy icecream at the beach on a sunday. 5 months later , a bully, game playing, adulterer which he says he isn't as he had left me before it started. Tight with money unless it was something he wanted. Self centred, arrogant, big flirt , arse. He said I deserve better and I bloody do. But that doesnt stop me wanting to go back in time.

So sorry to be sadly yet another joining you here.

I’ve been hovering around for a week or so, reading your often uplifting but also sadly recognisable posts, searching for (and receiving) comfort. You are all so very great. I was quite active on Mumsnet a few years ago, then left at one of the hacking scares and have only just re-emerged now, with new name, searching for solace.

Like many of you, I genuinely and truly thought I had the most wonderful marriage with DH, for >20 years, 2 grown up kids. Then discovered DH’s affair with OW last summer. Complete trauma and pain. He ‘repented’, ‘broke all contact’ with OW. We ‘worked on’ our marriage for many months, including very regular couples counselling and days and days and days and days of talking, which many times nearly broke me, as he clearly harboured considerable blame towards me for the whole thing. And I took it. I believed him that I must somehow be a bad person to make him do such an awful thing.

I told no-one but a couple of very close friends. I truly believed all would be well, I felt I clearly must have to change to make him happy, our lives would be saved and we would live the life and love we’d always planned into old age.

Then OW contacted me a few weeks before Christmas to let me know their affair had been ongoing the whole time. And he then admitted he had been lying throughout. I was honestly struck dumb. Then threw him out. And the deep pain and awfulness has been so unbearable and so painful ever since.

I have had amazing support from friends and colleagues. I have slowly and gradually let more people know, with varying levels of detail. I don’t feel embarrassed or humiliated (and none of us should, we didn't do this).

And like your DHs, he has been an utter wankbadger (love the name) ever since. It’s as if he’s had a personality change to become the most selfish, cold, heartless monster. Nothing like the man I loved. I don’t have to badmouth him to the kids (and try not to, though probably have done, through my tears, intermittently occasionally since), as he seems to be doing a pretty good job of mucking it all up with them himself at the moment.

Unlike some of you, my love for him has gone. Because the man I loved so very much really has gone and been replaced by someone awful. I don’t even like him never mind love him.

I haven’t discovered Chumplady yet, but I will look. I have just read Runaway Husbands, and though my situation was a bit different, DH’s behaviour is truly identical. I haven't read the last couple of chapters yet as don't want to know if he might never change back to being a good man or not.

Sorry to join you but glad you’re here.

So sorry to hear your story @thegrassisgreenernow what a total shit to do that to you! How bloody dare he! I know it's utterly heartbreaking but ultimately it really is good that you feel no love for him now because you will be able to move on and recover more quickly. Definitely get onto chumplady, it will give you a bitter sweet laugh. She has a certain way with words!

Sending love and support to you

@Bigpooh13, you are staying really strong, so keep on keeping on.

@thegrassisgreenernow, glad to have you along but sorry, so sorry that you are here. Your experience has been terrible. I can’t imagine what the call from OW must have been like. They deserve each other. You have been so strong. Kicking him out was brave. The personality change is odd. We’ve talked about it a lot on here. It does make it easier to stop loving them. So hard to get through but let’s hope we do. @TurmoilAndHeartbreak is right about chumplady. There’s a good post about loneliness today and don’t forget to read the comments. Some of the stories are truly inspiring.

Sleep well everyone xx

Thank you both, @TurmoilAndHeartbreak and @SuperbMonkey. Yes, it has been, and is still, too awful and such an extraordinary change to the life I thought I would be living this year. But we are all strong women and we WILL all come through this.

Have spent the time since OW contact just trying to recover emotionally. And have learnt that the less contact I have with DH, the calmer I feel.

Barely slept for weeks, but that is something that is amazingly improving in recent days (I genuinely thought it never would at one stage). No idea how I did my job on so little sleep. The body and mind have extraordinary capacity for recovery. I'm thinking that we should acknowledge every little bit of awareness of recovery as part of our own strength. Sleep well all.

Not much to add today but hello @thegrassisgreenernow. Sorry you're going through this but glad you found this thread. I know you might not feel like it but you sound so mighty.

I'm thinking that we should acknowledge every little bit of awareness of recovery as part of our own strength.

I love this.

((Hugs)) to all

thegrassisgreenernow I too , don't even like him, never mind love.Easier to cope with. And I too, did everything to support his career. When I did think that maybe I should let him take more control , he always messed up. And I would be pissed off and then he woukd be resentful. And probably thought that I was bossy or controlling. I would have loved to delegate , but to whom ?!

I know he dreads weekends as I do tend to start questioning him - maybe hoping that he will leave? Tonight my parting comment was " Who the fuck do you think you are ? Doing what you did to me ? How dare you? "

@Stillfunny, morning. You were awake early. I know what you mean about not liking your H. I do not like mine, or rather what he has become. I do still love him though. It’s hard to turn that feeling off after a long relationship. That’s the vulnerable underbelly that I have to control in discussions. Your living conditions sound hard, mentally exhausting. I feel for you. Take care of yourself today.

Always wakeful. Cant sleep for intrusive thoughts. I have been like this for over a year now. His betrayal occupies my mind all the time.

Hopefully, the new counselling on Monday will help with this.

And it helps to know that I not alone in my struggle.

Like so many of us , it is the loss of the life you were expecting to lead. And having no choice or input in it.
I feel so resentful that the things he chose to do has such an impact on my life. My past , present and future are now totally redefined . And I had no control over any of it.

@Stillfunny, on way into town for codependency group so able to post. I understand about the inability to sleep. I can drop off but wake up over 8 times in the night. Doctors aren’t keen to give pills are they. I understand why. I’m doing the Sleepio programme through NHS Healthy Minds. It’s free but isn’t available in all areas. You could google and contact them to ask if it is in your area. I’m London based. It’s my first week so I don’t know if it works yet. Counselling will definitely help too. Take care xx

Not in UK. But thanks.What is a codependantcy group?

@Stillfunny. Didn’t recall that you were outside UK. I think they might have sleepio online in US. Codependency is difficult to explain, and I’m not sure that I’m codependent. I’m exploring it. It’s when your self worth and value come from external factors e.g. your partner, drugs, alcohol, sex, rather than yourself. If you google you’ll find a lot of information about it. Hope this helps.

Well, on my way back from cinema. Made it through Little Women without crying. Must be the anti-Ds because it was sad. Chose to come home for a quiet evening in. Codependency group was depressing this morning. Everyone was so sad. I’m not sure whether it’s going to do me any good. Will persevere for now. Hope everyone else is ok. Sending love 💕