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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

*trigger warning** - Member of friendship group and domestic violence

95 replies

WhichBin · 28/10/2019 08:52

This is hard to write and I need to be very mindful of the details.

Our friend, let’s call him Alan, is a long term friend of DH’s but I’ve known him 10+ years. There’s a fairly big group of us that have gone through our 20’s/30’s together so through relationships, kids etc.

Alan was in a relationship for 10 years, then divorced. It was a fucked up relationship from the start as he used to cheat, DH would tell me, it would cause arguments as I was good friends with his wife etc (whole other thread which MN would have been party to 10 years ago) Them splitting was a good thing, albeit DC involved but we’ve managed to maintain an ok relationship with ex (play dates etc) and the divorce was actually quite amicable.

Fast forward to Alan’s second relationship. Lovely person, very driven in her career, could take him on and not take the BS of Alan’s personality. All going fine- typical perfect “Insta” couple: holidays, posh meals out, blended family of her DC and his DC (very amicable etc).

It all ended recently when she left when he was at work, cleared her things out of the house, gone. All out of nowhere, no communication at all.

Alan has been devastated. Emotionally fragile. Everyone in the friendship group has supported him as we were worried he was going to do something stupid.

Between the friendship circle we were told of her mental health problems, drink driving ban, her being emotionless, it being a difficult relationship, too driven at work (lots of working hours), controlling of him, moody, behaviour issues when drunk etc.

DH was also told of a time Alan had to restrain her because she’d wanted to drive when drunk. That he went to counselling because he’d bruised her during the restraint...

Basically painted a picture of a very unstable person and volatile relationship that none of us knew about.

Other friends have tried to get hold of her to check her mental health and that’s she’s ok, to no avail. Blocked on social media etc. no replies to messages. We heard from one friend that said she’s fine and wants nothing to do with any of us.

We’ve supported, listened, advised Alan instead. He is a lifetime friend of DH so we’ve done our bit to help.

But, something didn’t sit right with me and talking to my DH over the weekend, it didn’t sit right with him either.

DH and I reached out to her (details omitted on how) and have now received her side of the story.

She has been the victim of physical abuse. There are Pictures, video recordings. It’s horrific Sad

He’s hit her on at least 4 occasions this year Angry

We’ve been told Alan has been going to counselling for his anger issues. It’s been going on for 18 months.

I’ve responded separately saying, 1) I believe you and 2) are you safe now/ do you need anything? Thankfully, she’s safe, secure and wants nothing to do with him (which is good). I’ve advised her not to speak to him if he calls (he will try to call) and block him.

DH called Alan last night and said, not to contact her at all. He left it quite stern that he’d received a video and it didn’t sound good and the last thing Alan should be doing is contacting her. Message received but still tried to “billy bull shit” his way out of the limited information DH told him.

I’ve woke up this morning feeling sick to the stomach. I don’t want Alan in my house, around my DC and I can’t believe we’ve missed this.

I feel I’ve done what I can with his ex. She’s safe and I’m proud she’s got away.

Any advice from anyone who’s been in a similar situation? Have you been the victim? The friend?

(Clear name change of me and “Alan”)

OP posts:
slipperywhensparticus · 28/10/2019 08:55

Speak to DH and tell him you want to back away (to Narnia) from him

LuluBellaBlue · 28/10/2019 08:58

Well done and good for you!

WhichBin · 28/10/2019 09:01

@slipperywhensparticus eh?

OP posts:
eternallybaffled · 28/10/2019 09:04

Firstly well done to you and dh for knowing in your gut something wasn't right and pursuing this. Quite often an abuser is so manipulative that no one will ever know what they have done- and as you say the victim will be a nightmare- mh issues, aggressive, dreadful behaviours etc and the abuser will have been an absolute saint to have put up with them.
Secondly, well done on making the decision to keep 'Alan' away. I would just tell your husband straight that this is your decision. The problem for victims of abusers like this, is that they see this amazing circle of friends for their seemingly lovely partner and assume they must be a great person to have such valued relationships. It's a false cover for that abuser to get away with their nastiness.

I have been that victim, let her know that you are there should she ever need anything and that Alan won't ever hear of it, let her know she has done the right thing. But also let her know that you are not going to contact her again unless she instigates it- she needs a complete NC from him and any ties to him to she can start building herself up again. Although you are there to support her- to her you will always be a reminder of Alan. Well done again, I tore myself to pieces over the stories my ex abuser told of me to make me look like the 'bad one' and cover the abuse he put me through. In the long run, the people who mattered were the ones who could see beneath his mr nice guy persona and could tell that I had changed to a shadow of myself. They picked me up and supported me whilst I got on my feet again- Alan's ex will have a circle who will do this for her, if she doesn't, you've made it clear that you will be that x

Quartz2208 · 28/10/2019 09:09

It’s chilling how he did it Op with making her out to be the crazy one and setting the scene of the restraining. This wasn’t a one of or anger issues this was a concerted campaign of abuse. His devastation and your fear for him is classic manipulation
Firstly I would be questioning his first marriage and how bad that was and how it was amicable because she feared you would take his side because that is how he works

WhichBin · 28/10/2019 09:09

@eternallybaffled I’m so sorry you’ve been through this Sad your advice is very useful. Thank you so much for responding. I haven’t replied to her since last night. I wanted her to know I believed her and not him and she said thank you but she wanted nothing to do with any of us, so your point on the reminder, makes sense now.

OP posts:
Xiaoxiong · 28/10/2019 09:14

Not clear from your OP, your DH called Alan and told him to keep away from his ex and not contact her. Did he also say "and keep away from us too, we don't want to see you again?"

I couldn't see him again socially and I would take a very dim view of DH keeping him as a friend.

DH had an old school friend come round once who was incredibly sexist and racist - after about 20 mins and some shocked eye contact across the table DH abruptly stood up and said "mustn't keep you, I know you've got a ways to go to get back to x" (their hometown) and saw him out. We've never seen him again.

WhichBin · 28/10/2019 09:27

@Quartz2208 it is chilling and I have this knot in the bottom of my stomach how I’ve been sucked in by the lies recently. His first marriage was horrendous from both sides - it wasn’t a marriage. Who knows what happened behind closed doors on that one and it is in the past now.

@Xiaoxiong no he hasn’t. He wants to get Alan help. He’s furious at him but I can see his POV that he can’t just step away without telling him everything he knows. DH is not stupid and this will be, either an end to a friendship, or a “step away”. There are DC involved and that’s my concern, out of all of this. His DC are good friends with ours. Does the behaviour of Alan mean the DC miss out? This is so hard. I want to cry for the children involved.

OP posts:
SkinnyEx · 28/10/2019 09:34

I was in a similar situation.
Mr Pubbable-and-Clubbable, popular, jokey, charming.
Didn't realise it at the time but one of his female friends became single and his behaviour changed.
Subtle digs about my mental health and weight, lies, etc.
Ended up with me in A&E and him in custody.
He said it was self-defence and that I was a psychopath.
You would never guess he would do such a thing - I certainly hadn't seen it coming.

If a man says his ex is a psycho - be very suspicious

5LeafClover · 28/10/2019 09:43

You sound lovely op. If it was me I would be pleased that you had reached out but I would also have said not to contact again. The reason being that controlling men have strong views on what is theirs ( and, no matter how well the two of you got on, you will be seen by him as 'his') and it's not wise to start a row you don't need to. This may well be the case with first wife too.

If you can safely let her know that you are there if she needs you and you won't tell Alan then do that.

Don't contact her again after that unless you can write a short note that you don't see Alan at all now and you are hoping that she's ok.

Quartz2208 · 28/10/2019 09:53

Whichbin is it truly in the past though, a man like Alan has shown his true colours how much was it horrendous from both sides. Its clear that you chose Alan at that time. Is there anyway to repair this so your DC see them through the mums side. Can you reach out to her. I suspect it was an awful lot worse for her than you know and she never said because she feared not being believe. Your horrendous on both sides tells me Alan painted a story there

You have to end it. He has been awful throughout actually and you have been making allowances for him and then actually rallying around him.

Sadly your DH has to face up to the fact that the Alan he thinks he knows isnt Alan at all

TarMcAdam · 28/10/2019 10:45

There should be a male abuser dictionary in which "she was out of control and I had to restrain her" is explained as "I hit/grabbed/threw/strangled etc her".

My sister's ex said she was "out of control and I put her out of the house" which meant "during a row about my infidelity I knocked her down, dragged her around the floor, bruised her and dragged her out the door, leaving her locked out in bare feet".

WhichBin · 28/10/2019 11:12

I can’t believe what a fool I’ve been.
Have listened to him drone on and on - so fucking convincing. Hook, line and sinker

Thank you everyone for commenting.

DH are talking openly about it all. It’s very difficult for him. Life long friend, siblings involved - you walk away from one, you walk away from your entire friendship network. I’ve told him I want nothing more to do with Alan, he’s not welcome in our house nor around our DC.

OP posts:
nomoreclue · 28/10/2019 12:10

What about Alan’s kids? Are they seeing that abuse? Horrific. Your whole friendship group need to be told so that they can keep their kids and friends away from him

WhichBin · 28/10/2019 12:49

@nomoreclue as far as I can ascertain, no. Alan’s kids share time equally between ex-wife and Alan. The physical abuse has been during nights out (alcohol involved) when he hasn’t got the DC anyway. That seems to be the story on both sides, so I believe that to be true.

It reminds me of the Big Little Liars series Sad amazing dad to his children but all is not as it is behind the scenes.

OP posts:
5LeafClover · 28/10/2019 12:53

Yes to the abuser dictionary. This
she left when he was at work, cleared her things out of the house, gone. All out of nowhere, no communication at all. should be in it as I know exactly why she left but want to reframe it so I look like the victim...I wonder if its what set off alarm bells for you.

LexMitior · 28/10/2019 12:53

I’m sorry to say that this is a very common story. Charming man loses wife in apparent mystery. She refuses to talk, he on the other hand is in full on victim mode and she’s mentally troubled.

It speaks volumes that abusive men get away with so often. They know it’s easier to say the woman is crazy, because mostly people never want to believe the alternative. I’m not surprised this woman cut you out btw, because I’m sure she knew that she would have faced well meaning advice from the group about getting back together. She did the right thing in cutting herself off and rebuilding her life.

Whatisthisfuckery · 28/10/2019 12:58

OP I’m glad both you and your DH believe her. I would not want that man near any of my family ever again though.

Your DH thinks Alan has anger issues/emotional issues etc, but ask your DH, Has Alan ever got angry enough to hit him? Does Alan hit his boss or his other friends or his mother?

The anger issues excuse is such a nice comfortable explanation for someone who doesn’t want to fully face what sort of a person their friend is, but logically it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

If I were you OP I’d be saying that I don’t want Alan anywhere near me or the DC, and if your DH insists on continuing to see him and support him then that’s his choice, but to know that I took a very dim view of domestic abusers and those who enable them, and that’s what I see his support as being, enablement.

Re the ex, I’d message back saying I understand and respect her wishes not to see or hear from any of us, but that I believe her and will no longer be having anything to do with Alan either, and that the offer of support is there if she ever wants or needs it.

WhichBin · 28/10/2019 13:00

@SkinnyEx thank you for the link. I’ve sent the link of the speech to DH (the text version).

OP posts:
LexMitior · 28/10/2019 13:04

Well quite. It’s like Domestic Abuse bingo - she’s crazy but I let her look after my children at the time.

I have problems with anger, but I only hit my wife because people don’t see it.

These men are contemptible - and then if they get away with it, the woman becomes the source of gossip and sympathy for her craziness. If she ever displays any emotion, she is crazy.

All misogynistic and more abuse. The lies are part of the fun for men like this.

WhichBin · 28/10/2019 13:18

@Whatisthisfuckery thank you for this insight. What is the response if the accusation is that she has been violent first?

(I am being extremely careful with my wording here )

OP posts:
Quartz2208 · 28/10/2019 13:24

Does it matter his violence is never called for
Let’s face it you have always known him to be a minimising manipulative womaniser does adding control and violence to the mix

She was so scared she ran away from him because of how physical he was

I suspect all is not as it seems with his first marriage either

AnnaNimmity · 28/10/2019 13:34

The Rosie Duffield speech really really resonated with me. I was in a severely coercively controlling relationship with a couple of incidents of violence (him to me) and lots of horrible sex and other stuff. That speech made me cry when I heard it. The "who owns you" stuff urgh.

My ex has painted me out to be a mad liar I think. Pointing to an incident when I slapped him (not at all close in time to the violence). And ignoring the horrendous abuse that led up to the slapping. (not that I justify it at all). Luckily my friends have been amazing. The police, and my counsellors too. They saw through the relationship before it got violent but I didn't listen to them.

Anyway nothing to add, but yes agree it is never all that it seems on the outside. And I would always take with a HUGE pinch of salt anything a man says about a toxic or violent girlfriend. It's usually much worse for the woman and, in my case, some really vile stuff was going on. To see him, you wouldn't know (although many people do dislike him as he appears almost pyschopathically (! perhaps because he is) charming and smooth))

nomoreclue · 28/10/2019 13:49

I have to say I’m in awe of that woman for getting away like she did. That’s courage. She must have been absolutely scared shitless to do it that way. Did none of your friendship group question why she did that? Why would she, if she’s the abuser, do that? That’s not the norm. It’s the victim who runs not the perp. I’m guessing he’s a much more horrid man than you even think. I’d tread very carefully if I was you and try not to be naive. You need to tell your whole group at the same time what’s happened. You know when he knows you know he’ll turn his attention to you right? He’s abusive. He’ll probably start slagging you and your DH to your wider circle in an attempt to get you cut off. You need to be wise, cunning and shrewd. None of this trying to get him to counselling. Your DH means well but it’s past that point. You need him out of your life, zero contact and out of your friendship group