*trigger warning** - Member of friendship group and domestic violence

[WhichBin]

This is hard to write and I need to be very mindful of the details.

Our friend, let’s call him Alan, is a long term friend of DH’s but I’ve known him 10+ years. There’s a fairly big group of us that have gone through our 20’s/30’s together so through relationships, kids etc.

Alan was in a relationship for 10 years, then divorced. It was a fucked up relationship from the start as he used to cheat, DH would tell me, it would cause arguments as I was good friends with his wife etc (whole other thread which MN would have been party to 10 years ago) Them splitting was a good thing, albeit DC involved but we’ve managed to maintain an ok relationship with ex (play dates etc) and the divorce was actually quite amicable.

Fast forward to Alan’s second relationship. Lovely person, very driven in her career, could take him on and not take the BS of Alan’s personality. All going fine- typical perfect “Insta” couple: holidays, posh meals out, blended family of her DC and his DC (very amicable etc).

It all ended recently when she left when he was at work, cleared her things out of the house, gone. All out of nowhere, no communication at all.

Alan has been devastated. Emotionally fragile. Everyone in the friendship group has supported him as we were worried he was going to do something stupid.

Between the friendship circle we were told of her mental health problems, drink driving ban, her being emotionless, it being a difficult relationship, too driven at work (lots of working hours), controlling of him, moody, behaviour issues when drunk etc.

DH was also told of a time Alan had to restrain her because she’d wanted to drive when drunk. That he went to counselling because he’d bruised her during the restraint...

Basically painted a picture of a very unstable person and volatile relationship that none of us knew about.

Other friends have tried to get hold of her to check her mental health and that’s she’s ok, to no avail. Blocked on social media etc. no replies to messages. We heard from one friend that said she’s fine and wants nothing to do with any of us.

We’ve supported, listened, advised Alan instead. He is a lifetime friend of DH so we’ve done our bit to help.

But, something didn’t sit right with me and talking to my DH over the weekend, it didn’t sit right with him either.

DH and I reached out to her (details omitted on how) and have now received her side of the story.

She has been the victim of physical abuse. There are Pictures, video recordings. It’s horrific

He’s hit her on at least 4 occasions this year

We’ve been told Alan has been going to counselling for his anger issues. It’s been going on for 18 months.

I’ve responded separately saying, 1) I believe you and 2) are you safe now/ do you need anything? Thankfully, she’s safe, secure and wants nothing to do with him (which is good). I’ve advised her not to speak to him if he calls (he will try to call) and block him.

DH called Alan last night and said, not to contact her at all. He left it quite stern that he’d received a video and it didn’t sound good and the last thing Alan should be doing is contacting her. Message received but still tried to “billy bull shit” his way out of the limited information DH told him.

I’ve woke up this morning feeling sick to the stomach. I don’t want Alan in my house, around my DC and I can’t believe we’ve missed this.

I feel I’ve done what I can with his ex. She’s safe and I’m proud she’s got away.

Any advice from anyone who’s been in a similar situation? Have you been the victim? The friend?

(Clear name change of me and “Alan”)

You can’t win with people like this. It’s all very well saying this man should be shunned but it never happens. Why not is easy;

A) someone says you don’t know what happens behind closed doors

B) the person who raised is isolated, is being manipulated or crazy

C) the men all start looking at the husband of the wife who has objections and get annoyed at the disruption. The husband wants this to go away

That’s why domestic violence is such a problem. Most often, people find that they have more interest in ignoring it than acknowledging it.

Did none of your friendship group question why she did that? Why would she, if she’s the abuser, do that?

We did question it.

We also got fed a convincing story, which I believe, as did my DH, and several of our friends. It isn’t my proudest moment. He did a very good job with details I have not included in this thread

I’ll bet you good money all those details are 90 per cent things he has done himself. Not her.

Get this all out in the open - make sure all of your friendship group knows the details -
and make sure he knows they all know. He is single now and will be on the hunt for his next victim - so make sure anyone he turns up with is informed. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

This organisation is for perpetrator programmes - however it is also for friends, families and victims - and is v realistic about outcomes.

respectphoneline.org.uk/

respectphoneline.org.uk/help-information/domestic-violence-victims-concerned-friends-and-family-of-abusers/can-abusers-change/

@lexmitior A, B & C have been said in the last 24 hours, by one or more of the friendship group. The whole things makes me really sad and reminds me again that we are a long way off from an equal society.

You need to tell your whole group at the same time what’s happened. You know when he knows you know he’ll turn his attention to you right? He’s abusive. He’ll probably start slagging you and your DH to your wider circle in an attempt to get you cut off. You need to be wise, cunning and shrewd. None of this trying to get him to counselling. Your DH means well but it’s past that point. You need him out of your life, zero contact and out of your friendship group

^I completely agree with this

respectphoneline.org.uk/help-information/male-domestic-violence-perpetrators/effects-of-domestic-abuse-on-children/

What is the gender make up of the group because I suspect the men are sadly more on his side/side of ignoring

Exactly who stayed friends with his ex or was she shunned as being just as bad and mad?

I will only ask you to ask this of your husband and your friendship group - would they stay friends with a man who repeatedly beat up people of another race? I'm guessing not.

The only way that men like Alan change is if they are outcast from society. Sadly, their mates will always make excuses for them because misogyny.

The reason that people do not break away is because really knowing your friend is a violent thug is too much to bear. A lot of people are morally useless. They aren’t friends you need if you are being hurt and bullied. The men will ignore it and women downplay it and ask questions about whether the complaint is crazy. This would hurt the woman, revictimizing her. She did right to run away.

Really it is like the reporting of child abuse. People tend to dismiss children’s experiences for exactly the same reasons.

The reason that this woman has never spoken to any of you is that she knew that she would never be believed. Yes, she has been brave, but she’s also judged the group and she got it right.

Yes you're right Lex. The friends will stand by their old mate, even though they know he's a violent misogynist arsehole. Because it's easier.

@Quartz2208 you have picked up on a valid point there - can’t give you an answer as too revealing.

I ask this not to shit-stir, but would the outcome be the same if she hadn't had recordings? Would everyone have believed her to the same extent?

But that makes the friends complicit in the normalisation and continuation of abuse. It's simply not acceptable - is it? This man will get away with it, while the poor woman has had to run away. She'll be damaged for years to come. Suffering flashbacks, scared. Unable to trust men.

I know what that poor woman has gone through, the strength she needed to get out. If she went to the police, the horrendousness of that (and she probably didn't, because it's just too hard). And now, being treated as the mad one. The unstable one. While he just carries on with his life until the next victim comes along.

(and I bet the friends are mostly men, but women do it too - ignore ,and even worse, justify abuse. - The worse of my abuser apologists is a woman. A mother of a daughter. It makes me so sick and fucking angry that someone who, had I fallen just a little bit differently, could have killed me, is still free and women are still soothing his sick violent ego).

It’s all very well saying this man should be shunned but it never happens.

This is my experience too. Many abusers are charismatic, and it is the people who speak up about them who get pushed out of friendship groups because others don't like it when the boat is rocked.

Alan will be trash-talking you in exactly the same way as he did his ex, and people will do the '"I don't want to take sides" thing. It'll be seen as your 'interfering', not his actions, that are the problem. I've been there, and it's shit.

I had to walk away from a friendship group for exactly this reason not long ago. It's crap, but people will show you their true colours when you try to stand up to a bully. Some will be allies, most won't give a shit and will let you become the target.

Thanks for the advice given so far. It has been invaluable today.

A lot gone on in the background and whilst still trying to maintain details to the minimum, everything said in this thread is making sense. Please know I am listening and most of you have read between the lines on things and have been spot on with your opinions. I just don’t want to put this situation.

I’ve messaged the victim as per some of the advice and had a lovely reply from her. Police were involved 12 months ago but she didn’t press charges. Neighbours were aware too. She’s kept it secret as he is so ‘central’ to the group and she was, rightly, scared. She’s appreciated the support / offer from me and DH. I intend on stepping away as she knows where I am if needed. I am in awe of her strength and reply message to me.

DH has met Alan and spoken to him on the phone too. The denial is still there. The bull shit is still there. He knows he’s done wrong but has excuses. The issue for me is that fact that he is still trying to worm his way out of it. He’s apologised for dragging me and DH into it.

Alan then wanted to come round tonight and I’ve put a stop to this. I was fucking angry that he even thought this was a good idea. But, it’s a clear sign of an abuser losing control. He needed to see me to convince me of his “truths” and I refused.

My normal self would be to the point, opinionated, actually no filter sometimes which gets me in trouble but actually respected in our group (DH similar too, just wiser and less of a loud mouth like me). I’ve done this and I know there will be repercussions, probably for DH directly, and for me in the background

I am finding this situation extremely difficult and upsetting. The emotion of it all is hard - I don’t know why that emotion is there for me. It hasn’t happened to me but I’m really sad for the victim and have this knot in my stomach which is anger I think. I want to shout and scream at Alan but that’s not the thing to do.

We know Alan’s entire family, mum/dad, everyone actually. The relationship between DH and Alan is a best friend one. By being open about my thoughts, can I do more damage than good? Some of the advice here is to basically “name and shame” him. And whilst that would be my normal stance on anything I disagree with; my [feminist] views have been eye rolled in the past (as an example, the high profile footballer rape case and strong views on this, I would put my head above the parapet and influence others on right/wrong and basic morals etc). Am I going to have an influence here? I feel it needs the police involved for it to be a huge wake up call for everyone involved.

This is also linked to what some of you are saying in this thread that Alan (or even some friends) could turn on me. I am very worried about this, especially now that I know what Alan is capable of. Dare I say it, I’m scared of Alan?

I’m ok with the cutting out of Alan. DH knows my view - agrees with it, but me cutting this person out is huge. I do have concerns (and please go easy on me, I have never been in this situation before). People will ask questions as to why I am not talking to Alan, and then what, I tell the victims story? Genuine question, is that my story to tell?

I am feeling utterly overwhelmed... if you’ve reached the end of this post, thank you.

Have the videos of the abuse been shared with the other friends? I honestly couldn’t remain friends with anyone who made excuses and apologies for a violent misogynist! What happens when next time he goes too far and kills her? Are some of the other men violent misogynists too? As to me, they must be, if they honestly feel that their friend violently beating his wife/ partner is an ok thing to do!

If one of my brothers violently attacked a woman then I would have NOTHING to do with him again! What is so frustrating and angering at the way your husband and his friends want to plaster over the massive bull in the middle of the room- is that they only know about the physical violence, they are not aware of the years, months, days, hours, minutes and seconds of extreme psychological abuse, sexual coercion and sexual abuse! It is very likely that it will take this Monsters (I won’t call him Alan, as I have a relative with that name, who despises men who abuse women and all bullies) innocent ex, years of therapy to realise the extent of her ex’s manipulation, financial abuse, controlling behaviours, sexual abuse and coercion. Meanwhile - Monster gets a big pat on the back from his friends who will do everything they can to support their friend with his anger management issues ( or as they have already framed it in their minds- getting over the manipulative jealous ex who has tried to ruin his reputation).

If they heard he had gone into a shopping mall with a baseball bat and beat the shit out of a woman/ man or child, they would cut him off immediately! If they heard he had punched, slapped and kicked a strange woman on the street, in full view of themselves and the public they would cut him off! Yet somehow it’s ok to be a violent, abusive, manipulative narcissist as long as it’s behind closed doors and your wife or partner that you kick the shit out of/ rape/ abuse!

I cannot stand this misogyny, domestic violence is killing women every day and assholes like ‘Alan’ walk out of it retaining all their friends and are able to manipulate and lie to make their victim look ‘crazy’! Women are disbelieved in rape trials, children are disbelieved in sexual abuse trials!

It’s 2019 and disgusting abusers like ‘Alan’ are the ones the friends rush to the aid of! It just horrifies me that despite video evidence of horrific abuse, it’s still the man that comes out smelling of roses!

@Quartz2208, Yes it does. He will do it to someone else.
These people do not appear violent - they treat you wonderfully for ages, they're the perfect partner, then they change and they work on reducing you to a nervous wreck, then they goad you, and when you react they get violent.

It's all justified with a ' she's dangerous/unstable/psychopathic/needs sectioning and I only did it as as self-defence '. Everyone believes him.

She will often be too ashamed or too scared to look for help, so these attacks will go unnoticed.

It will be someone completely unlikely. Someone who coud charm the birds from the trees.

@Caledoniahasmyheartforever to be clear. No one has said we will remain friends forever. Not sure where you have got to that point from my last post.

Your view point is clear. I agree with the things you are saying.

So in my situation, what exactly would be your next move? Read my last post. There are some specific questions I have and I haven’t got the answers - I don’t know what to do next, what my next move is, and how to approach this.

At the moment, I’ve got people telling me he’s an monster and our friends need to be told. Is that my next move?

It is your story to tell. Because if it isn't, that will enable "Alan" to go on reeling in women and the friendship group will continue to turn a blind eye. His ex has trusted you with this information, she can't protect other women from him now, but you can

I think you just need one or two key people on your side, maybe wives of the DH/Alan group, who will be sure never to invite him to another social occasion again.

What exactly is your DH in all of this. It’s his best friend he should be the one leading all of this
He seems to be a allowing some of this and making you the one who is saying no

And it’s ok I think I know the answer with his first marriage and I suspect you have realised that probably wasn’t what you thought either

If people are talking about it, I would not appear to take sides but maybe say something like ' No smoke without fire'.

Exactly what are the rest of the group like they are not being painted well given that Alan is central