*trigger warning** - Member of friendship group and domestic violence

[WhichBin]

This is hard to write and I need to be very mindful of the details.

Our friend, let’s call him Alan, is a long term friend of DH’s but I’ve known him 10+ years. There’s a fairly big group of us that have gone through our 20’s/30’s together so through relationships, kids etc.

Alan was in a relationship for 10 years, then divorced. It was a fucked up relationship from the start as he used to cheat, DH would tell me, it would cause arguments as I was good friends with his wife etc (whole other thread which MN would have been party to 10 years ago) Them splitting was a good thing, albeit DC involved but we’ve managed to maintain an ok relationship with ex (play dates etc) and the divorce was actually quite amicable.

Fast forward to Alan’s second relationship. Lovely person, very driven in her career, could take him on and not take the BS of Alan’s personality. All going fine- typical perfect “Insta” couple: holidays, posh meals out, blended family of her DC and his DC (very amicable etc).

It all ended recently when she left when he was at work, cleared her things out of the house, gone. All out of nowhere, no communication at all.

Alan has been devastated. Emotionally fragile. Everyone in the friendship group has supported him as we were worried he was going to do something stupid.

Between the friendship circle we were told of her mental health problems, drink driving ban, her being emotionless, it being a difficult relationship, too driven at work (lots of working hours), controlling of him, moody, behaviour issues when drunk etc.

DH was also told of a time Alan had to restrain her because she’d wanted to drive when drunk. That he went to counselling because he’d bruised her during the restraint...

Basically painted a picture of a very unstable person and volatile relationship that none of us knew about.

Other friends have tried to get hold of her to check her mental health and that’s she’s ok, to no avail. Blocked on social media etc. no replies to messages. We heard from one friend that said she’s fine and wants nothing to do with any of us.

We’ve supported, listened, advised Alan instead. He is a lifetime friend of DH so we’ve done our bit to help.

But, something didn’t sit right with me and talking to my DH over the weekend, it didn’t sit right with him either.

DH and I reached out to her (details omitted on how) and have now received her side of the story.

She has been the victim of physical abuse. There are Pictures, video recordings. It’s horrific

He’s hit her on at least 4 occasions this year

We’ve been told Alan has been going to counselling for his anger issues. It’s been going on for 18 months.

I’ve responded separately saying, 1) I believe you and 2) are you safe now/ do you need anything? Thankfully, she’s safe, secure and wants nothing to do with him (which is good). I’ve advised her not to speak to him if he calls (he will try to call) and block him.

DH called Alan last night and said, not to contact her at all. He left it quite stern that he’d received a video and it didn’t sound good and the last thing Alan should be doing is contacting her. Message received but still tried to “billy bull shit” his way out of the limited information DH told him.

I’ve woke up this morning feeling sick to the stomach. I don’t want Alan in my house, around my DC and I can’t believe we’ve missed this.

I feel I’ve done what I can with his ex. She’s safe and I’m proud she’s got away.

Any advice from anyone who’s been in a similar situation? Have you been the victim? The friend?

(Clear name change of me and “Alan”)

I think all you can influence is your own behaviour - you can avoid Alan and not be present at events where he is. Are you prepared for the rest of the group to side with Alan? God that's depressing isn't it? I'm sorry you're in such a situation.

At least my abuser has no friends (even his family stay away from him) - it would have been horrendous to lose friends over him on top of everything else.

Yes, his family are the least likely to believe anyone other than him.

A few years ago, I naively believed that my lovely, left-leaning, right on friends would never countenance hanging around with a domestic abuser, and that all it would take was honesty to expose someone for what they were. Sadly the vast majority of people aren't like that, and it's a hard lesson to learn.

Somehow these guys are always 'Mr charming', aren't they? The guy in my case certainly was. 'Pubable and clubable', as someone said upthread.

There are countless threads on here about family and friends welcoming abusers, rapists and worse with open arms, while shagging off the victims and their supporters for 'being difficult' and rocking their cosy boat.

well lots of psychopaths are excessively charming. But when you know that someone is abusive, the charm just looks fake and creepy.

Some people do see through it from the start. My one is generally not very liked even by people who don't know him (I know of someone who saw him at an event and she thought he was awful - and she didn't even know him).

in my dp's friendship group there are a couple of men who are awful though (not to this degree) and because they've all known each other for years, they all tolerate it. Privately none of them like these men, but they still tolerate it. I don't because I'm new to the group and I don't have to!

I think I scared DH last night because I told him, if he wasn’t at home and was working away this week, I wouldn’t be in our house as I’m genuinely frightened of Alan’s capabilities.

The main outcomes I want are: police involvement, the victim safe and his friends knowing the truth.

I feel like all 3 of them are achievable but that all come at a huge cost and change one way or another for those involved.

I fear that the cost isn’t worth it to some (eg “I’ll have no friends if I stop talking to Alan”)

I fear the victim won’t be strong enough to go to the police (she hasn’t been believed to until DH/I received her message, when others had received it)

I fear Alan will find her and she won’t be safe (I’m hopeful he won’t)

It’s a mess. I went to bed thinking of our plan and woke up thinking it won’t work. I don’t think people will believe us.

If the victim doesn't want to go to the police, you can't make her. Sharing the evidence with the police won't do anything if she isn't prepared to make a statement. And she may have good reason to think that she'd be in danger if she pursued it... I'd leave it up to her.

The best way for her to keep safe is to have no contact with Alan or his circle, and for nobody connected with Alan to know where she is.

Pubbable and clubbable was mine.
Life and soul. Such a laugh. Great mate.

As regards telling anyone - they won't believe you.

They'll dismiss it as you being jealous or blaming it on MH issues, pregnancy hormones, postnatal depression, being perimenapausal or menapausal, PMT, anything.

I think you need to let go of the victim and trying to get her to do snything. What she has achieved is huge and amazing and ENOUGH for her. She is safe and well away from him. It’s not about being strong enough it’s that she has achieved her goal seeing him again in any form might stop that

The only one you can help with is friends knowing the truth and then let them make there own mind up.

You also have to remember is losing these friends (it’s not having any friends come and go and can be made) is better than knowing your condone this behaviour

It was the toughest thing I ever did, going to the police. Don't underestimate how difficult it would be for the victim.

You have to relive every single detail, several times. It means that you can't put the abuse behind you (although ultimately, it is the best closure). in my case, social services got involved. And at the end of the day, even though the police believed me, and wanted to prosecute him, the CPS wouldn't take it further. I had photos, I had witness statements, I had emails even setting out the coercive abuse - but it still wasn't taken further.

And although there was a sense of closure for me (on a personal level) it makes me extremely angry that this man is still out there. While I will have to live with what he did for ever.

I know he's miserable And i know he hates that his public image has been tarnished (he begged me not to proceed), but he's still free to peddle his lies about me. I know he knows what a shit he is - he hurt a woman (well more than one actually) but he's still out there. Mine even contacted me a couple of weeks ago - as though everything was normal and we were just on a break. God.

So yes, don't pin your hopes on the victim doing anything. It's so tough.

The main outcomes I want are: police involvement, the victim safe and his friends knowing the truth.

You are only in control of the last of these.

I totally understand and believe the outcome will be as HillRunner says - but I don’t think that it shouldn’t be done - it will have some impact, shit sticks, even if a seed of doubt is planted maybe the friends who remain won’t introduce single Alan to their lovely single friend - they may what out for his new single squeeze and tip he off - this is at least one positive outcome.

My thoughts on this though are that your DH should lead it - he is the BF - not you - the males in the group would give it more consideration and the “histrionic/feminist over reacting nutter” smear can’t be laid at him.

He could also present it to the family and friends as Alan needing help - share the perpetrator programmes that I linked to above - also that his children will need support. They will have to listen to this.

I would also in the same conversation tell them exactly how Alan will now react - that he will charm, deny, attack, smear and exclude DH from the group - so that they can see his game plan come to life - this might be the time that the pennies drop for them rather than when you first speak with them.

But be realistic that many people do not want any personal discomfort - so they “don’t want to know” want to minimise and are happy to stay with the larger group.

I would be hosting loads group stuff and excluding him.

But your DH needs to front all of this for it to be effective.

With the #Me Too campaign I always think it is the not nasty males who should always have intervene and speak out - their voices and behaviours are much more powerful and impactful at changing the attitudes and behaviours is their gender than some “hysterical over reacting woman”.

So to conclude:
Get it all out in the open - sunlight is the best disinfectant.
Name and shame him by stealth - signpost him and his family and friends to the Respect perpetrator programmes. Relate also do them.
Get your DH to head this all up and be the front man / spokesperson to the males in the group/his family. You need to keep a low profile but support him in the background.

Tell them how he will react to DH’s disclosures (the attacks, the smear campaign and the control and exclusion)

Watch and wait for it all the unfold over the next year - people will take their stance at different times.

Why is it automatically assumed that the female will defend and challenge? He’s your DH best mate - if there is any chance of positive impact it will be with him leading and you keeping quiet.

Would your DH step up?

Everyone - thank you so much

I am reading but I can’t reply individually.

More has come out and it’s killing me to know the information I know.

There are things happening but I’m scared of publicly writing what on here.

I’m listening to each and every bit of advice.

Links are fantastic. You are all fantastic.

Oh I imagine you might find plenty of others already know. You will find by your actions that there are a lot of guilty people within your group that had a good idea about him.

Never underestimate a long term friendship group that seems tightly knit. They have the history to know the nuances of a friend’s questionable behaviours.

My ex’s friendship group have all known eachother since their childhood and he’s now 50s.

He thinks his friends think he’s ‘endearingly eccentric’ but ‘harmless’.

He doesn’t know that one or two of his friends used to take me aside and recommend I leave him, that they’ve seen how he treats me when he thinks nobody’s looking, that they’ve noticed the bruises or how I went from chirpy new girlfriend to effectively crawling on the floor at his feet.

One of them even spoke up to him once, but it was half hearted, not because he was scared of my ex reacting, but because he was always resigned to the fact my ex wouldn’t change his behaviour no matter what people told him.

Your ‘Alan’ is a clever manipulator. He isn’t being fragile right now, he’s just shocked that she’s defeated him, and if there’s one thing these sort of people hate its defeat. He’s sitting there quietly planning to ramp up his revenge I expect.

The woman has done absolutely the right thing cutting contact with you all because it affords her the safest permanent exit.

Op I have been through similar, except ‘Alan’ is my BIL. It came to light when I saw him physically attack my niece. DH and I called the police, child services, the school, told SIL we would support her always and were there to help... BIL and SIL spun a web of lies and no action was taken. Other family who witnessed the assault did mental gymnastics to explain it away. I was vilified, painted as the evil feminist wanting to break up BILs family. I now have no relationship with DH’s family (SIL is his sister). People acted exactly as others on this thread have described. It is the hardest lesson I have learned in my adult life, that people will act this way. You are doing the right thing, but be prepared for those around you to take the easy route.

Its scary how often it seems to play out this way. Misogyny and apathy when it comes to violence against women are really ingrained.

oh dear OP, I hope you are getting some support too - it's not a pleasant situation to be in. I hope you H stands by you.

@FairportConvention how horrible for you too. It's worse somehow when women ignore or worse, become abuse apologists. How can they excuse mens behaviour like that? It has to stop or we just give men permission to carry on.

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@FairportConvention that sounds awful for you and your DH. I’m almost certain this may be a similar outcome. As above though, lots going on behind the scenes and our plan to nail him is in motion.

@AnnaNimmity DH has been remarkable. I haven’t mentioned this thread to him because I haven’t needed to. He’s been amazing.

@LuckySeventhWave thank you for your words.

In the news today mother of 4 murdered by her husband this morning as children slept upstairs. Shocking

Hi OP.
You are doing a fab job. I’m so impressed you are standing strong and doing the right thing. After reading about PP’s experiences and learning that they themselves have been ostracized from their friendship groups for making a stand against dv I thought about what I would do on your shoes.

I don’t think I would want to be friends with people who given the evidence would stand by someone who was committing harm. I’d reassess the friendships. They don’t sound like my people

I’m really glad your DH is on same page- as given the power having a penis bestows, it will only be relevant to the group if your DH speaks out against Alan.

In fact if you do, as a known feminist, he may gain more support from the closet misogynists who won’t like a nasty feminist bad mouthing him. I’ve seen this happen. Even men we don’t expect it of have a misogynist hiding away in them- a fear that a woman will get too big for her boots- and they start to rally round any men being accused.

If your DH says why he won’t see Alan and that he has seen proof Alan is an abuser and as such doesn’t want him in his house etc it will hold so much more weight.

Please don’t encourage or coerce the victim to go the police. She doubtless knows it’s an option and it has to be her decision. It could have repercussions for her that she needs to be strong enough to manage.

If anything just point her in direction of women’s aid. They can support her with her choices.

Don’t feel bad you are breaking up a friendship group or losing your close knit circle. Fact is all the people in it can choose to go with you but if they stay with Alan and as such don’t see you anymore then frankly they aren’t people you want in your life and better to know now id say.