*trigger warning** - Member of friendship group and domestic violence

[WhichBin]

This is hard to write and I need to be very mindful of the details.

Our friend, let’s call him Alan, is a long term friend of DH’s but I’ve known him 10+ years. There’s a fairly big group of us that have gone through our 20’s/30’s together so through relationships, kids etc.

Alan was in a relationship for 10 years, then divorced. It was a fucked up relationship from the start as he used to cheat, DH would tell me, it would cause arguments as I was good friends with his wife etc (whole other thread which MN would have been party to 10 years ago) Them splitting was a good thing, albeit DC involved but we’ve managed to maintain an ok relationship with ex (play dates etc) and the divorce was actually quite amicable.

Fast forward to Alan’s second relationship. Lovely person, very driven in her career, could take him on and not take the BS of Alan’s personality. All going fine- typical perfect “Insta” couple: holidays, posh meals out, blended family of her DC and his DC (very amicable etc).

It all ended recently when she left when he was at work, cleared her things out of the house, gone. All out of nowhere, no communication at all.

Alan has been devastated. Emotionally fragile. Everyone in the friendship group has supported him as we were worried he was going to do something stupid.

Between the friendship circle we were told of her mental health problems, drink driving ban, her being emotionless, it being a difficult relationship, too driven at work (lots of working hours), controlling of him, moody, behaviour issues when drunk etc.

DH was also told of a time Alan had to restrain her because she’d wanted to drive when drunk. That he went to counselling because he’d bruised her during the restraint...

Basically painted a picture of a very unstable person and volatile relationship that none of us knew about.

Other friends have tried to get hold of her to check her mental health and that’s she’s ok, to no avail. Blocked on social media etc. no replies to messages. We heard from one friend that said she’s fine and wants nothing to do with any of us.

We’ve supported, listened, advised Alan instead. He is a lifetime friend of DH so we’ve done our bit to help.

But, something didn’t sit right with me and talking to my DH over the weekend, it didn’t sit right with him either.

DH and I reached out to her (details omitted on how) and have now received her side of the story.

She has been the victim of physical abuse. There are Pictures, video recordings. It’s horrific

He’s hit her on at least 4 occasions this year

We’ve been told Alan has been going to counselling for his anger issues. It’s been going on for 18 months.

I’ve responded separately saying, 1) I believe you and 2) are you safe now/ do you need anything? Thankfully, she’s safe, secure and wants nothing to do with him (which is good). I’ve advised her not to speak to him if he calls (he will try to call) and block him.

DH called Alan last night and said, not to contact her at all. He left it quite stern that he’d received a video and it didn’t sound good and the last thing Alan should be doing is contacting her. Message received but still tried to “billy bull shit” his way out of the limited information DH told him.

I’ve woke up this morning feeling sick to the stomach. I don’t want Alan in my house, around my DC and I can’t believe we’ve missed this.

I feel I’ve done what I can with his ex. She’s safe and I’m proud she’s got away.

Any advice from anyone who’s been in a similar situation? Have you been the victim? The friend?

(Clear name change of me and “Alan”)

I would refuse to have anything to do with Alan. I would hope (but not make) my dh to do the same. If my dh failed to do it, I would have less respect for him. I agree with what @Caledoniahasmyheartforever says so eloquently completely

you can't underestimate the damage that monsters like Alan cause. They kill people!!! His victim has gone through hell - when I remember what it was like speaking to the police. The PTSD. The shock. They should be outed. They should be shunned. They should be punished fgs. And yes, I've been subject to that same anger. Its vicious. Fuck it.

I am in a similar friendship group OP. I would:

• make sure I was a united front with my husband
• tell friends that it's up to them if they want ti continue to see Alan but that you don't want to
• don't invite him or go to anywhere where he is invited. Check before accepting an invitation.

I think you will make the rest of them ashamed to exclude you.

If you're friends with his family, you need to talk to them. This is not your shame, it's his. Make it shameful. Make him deal with the horror of what he has done.

And I'd be bloody surprised if he was never violent to his wife. And I'd also be bloody surprised if his children don't know.

This is no different to the dynamics of turning a blind eye to child sex offenders and sexual assault and harassment in the work place. I always say with the Jimmy Savile situation that those that turned the other way were in many ways worse - he was an monster - was never going to change - but all of those people could have stopped it happening to another victim.

respectphoneline.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Can-an-abuser-change.pdf

This is a really important document - it’s for victims who are considering going back to the abuser who has claimed they have changed - might be v helpful for your DH to read if he is likely to be in dialogue with Alan direct or his friends and family - it outlines the lies and manipulation - “The script”

I think you will make the rest of them ashamed to exclude you.

My experience is that this is not the case.

In my case, the man even went as far as being physically threatening to me in full view of the group (this was 'justified' by him claiming that 'feelings were running high' due to me 'interfering in his divorce').

He claimed that he had no problem with me (played the magnanimous victim). He claimed he didn't know why I had an issue with him, and made up stuff about me to make me seem the problem. He had no qualms lying about people who threatened his social dominance, just like your guy has done with his ex. He wasn't even central to the group, but it was easier and less hassle to believe him over me, or to turn a blind eye, so that's what most people did.

I was also the feminist outspoken one in the group, and that was used against me. It might feel like being forthright gets you respect in a group of men, but it doesn't. It means that quite a few of them are likely to view you as potentially problematic. It makes you a lot easier to disbelieve and undermine because you're seen as being 'an angry feminist'.

I wish you luck, but you may well have to walk away from these people.

I went through similar to this, as the victim, but my ex charmed several people into thinking I was the perpetrator - it's often easy to do because after so long of being gaslighted and having your head totally messed with, having yourself totally broken down, it's easy for the coping behaviours you exhibit and your reactions to the things they've lied about to others, to come across as crazy, unstable, lies, etc.

This is how my ex put it to people. Luckily for me, some of our mutual friends and a few who had been his friends to begin with, could see/ realised/ worked out he was the liar and was abusing me and the kids.

But it hurts a lot to know that when you most need people, they think you're the problem and suddenly you're on your own and people think the worst of you.

I'm glad you worked out the truth.

And my case was strikingly similar to yours. My friend was the victim of DV by this man, my DH was also in the group and involved etc. I was actually more central to the group than this man, but I lacked a penis and therefore got no support.

God knows what lies my xh spun to his family and friends about me.
To be clear, he wasn't physically abusive (but he didn't need to be, he could do it with words).
But, the upshot is that his family and our joint friends basically cut me out. It was very hurtful at the time because they were the only people I socialised with except for my family. (You can read into that what you will...)
I could say lots more, but I'm a firm believer that people believe that if they throw enough shit, some of it will stick - it certainly sounds like it in this case.
My advice is to distance yourself.
Let your dcs see his with your dh if that's what your dh chooses - but you are then free to explain to people why you have backed out.

Btw, you asked what your next move should be.... I'd speak up, and be honest when/if people ask why you aren't speaking. Even knowing what the likely outcome would be (disbelief, turning a blind eye).

That period of time told me a lot about who my real friends are, and who I could trust. There are a fair few people who I have no time for anymore, I've lost a group of friends, but I'm glad my eyes were opened to what cowardly shits they are.

Make no mistake though, once he realises he can't talk you round, he will go on the attack.

@HillRunner you have articulated exactly what I think will happen. Thank you for sharing your experiences.

This thread has helped me more than any of you could know.

DH and I have had a good discussion tonight. We’re both on the same page - we have made many plans.

Thank you every one

@HillRunner - that's why I said the OP and her husband need to be united. If he doesn't back her, I think she'll be ostracised just as you were.

And for you. It's frightening how men gather round and support rapists and abusers. We've seen it in action with pretty much every single high profile rape and assault case

I'm glad your DH is on side, as it helped that mine was too.

Notably, every single one of the people in the group who were prepared to stand by me and speak up with me was female (this was in a highly male dominated group). So the friends I retained were the women. The men were the cowards.

But never underestimate the lengths people will go to, and the mental somersaults they will perform, to excuse abusive men.

My group was full of nice, right on, middle class blokes. But there were even cries of "Oh, it's six of one and half a dozen of the other" when he marched up and threatened me in full view of everyone! (I'd said nothing at all to provoke it)

OrchidInTheSun - My DH did back me. It made no difference.

In the stories this guy told, my DH was painted as a put upon, henpecked man who was going along with me for an easy life, whereas I got the bulk of the vitriol.

Ultimately though, DH was pushed out of the group just as much as I was though. Abusers like this have to be in control, and that means stomping on anything that might disrupt or contradict their narrative.

OP, I was in the position of being 'Alan's' ex. I went No Contact wiht him, and anyone involved with him. The fact she even replied to you shows she is vulnerable still to him using his friends as 'flying monkeys' - you can google the term.

If you want to help her, encourage her to be completely no contact with anyone who has anything to do with him. Hopefully, you and your partner will, by that time, have decided that supporting an abuser in his abuse is just that.

If not, she's better off without you.

@hillrunner I think every thing you have said is sadly likely to happen to OP. Although I am even more cynical and am surprised that the women stood up for you at all. People don't want to believe this stuff. They want to pretend it's not happening. And the outspoken feminist person in the group is easy to ignore on the basis that she "always makes such a song and dance about everything."

OP: good luck. I really hope you can maintain your friendship group but I think this is going to be a tough situation. I have been through a less hard or version within extended family and I still struggle with how the perprtrator has just been accepted back into the fold.

I am clearly too optimistic @HillRunner

Fucking hell men are arseholes

I think you can’t do too much in situations like these. The truth is that the majority of people can be moral cowards. A minority will put themselves out for people who are suffering.

I’m not sure I would excuse the men. Women are often equally conflicted. Not even for good reasons but shallow ones, she was a bitch, she provoked it etc. Group dynamics play a bit part. Often groups think of what is best for them. If that is standing around a BBQ six months later with Alan and his new squeeze who can handle his “bullshit” but being able to have a beer uninterrupted then they do it.

I feel admiration for this woman. She has escaped. But she has had the wit to understand that she could not win. Has she ever felt safe she could have disclosed her abuse to you. Leave her be. Give her dignity. And save her from the attentions of her ex, who will be foaming at the mouth to shut her up at the same time he is doing his obsequious number to your friends.

Your moral quandary is after all worse than you imagine. Because there will be another woman. And then the great test will be begin.

I would react the way you have. I would want nothing more to do with Alan and he wouldn’t be welcome in our home or around dc. I think your dc can maintain a relationship if they see each other during their mother’s time. Do you have contact details.

I would approach his family and tell them that he needs help. I don’t know if there are any courses run for abusers ie anger management etc.

I would tell your friends the truth and go so far as to share the evidence so Alan can’t gas light them or make you out to be crazy. They will then have to chose if they want to remain friends with Alan.

I was in your friend's situation. Most of my friendship circle were my friends and their husband from school. When I finally managed to open out about my husband's abuse, they sided with him. He was "such a great guy" they couldn't believe he could "do that to me" despite seeing the physical evidence on me and seeing the verbal abuse.

I lost every single one of my teen friends, when I escaped my abusive first husband.

I'm not in contact with any friends from secondary school. I'm 65 now and it still hurts
How I wish at least one of my friends had been like you, OP

I'm sorry that happened to you catmaiden. It's so depressing.... people will take the way route regardless of the evidence, because acknowledging that someone they know is an abuser, and cutting them out, is simply though hassle.

Someone above suggested telling Alan's family that he needs help. I wouldn't try to do this - if his friends are dismissing it, why on earth would his family (who will be even more invested in the fiction that he's a good guy) listen?

I would simply cut him out and be honest when people ask you why. People will either believe you or they won't, and the ones that won't, won't be convinced whatever you say or show them.

^ easy route

And 'simply too much hassle'

Often groups think of what is best for them. If that is standing around a BBQ six months later with Alan and his new squeeze who can handle his “bullshit” but being able to have a beer uninterrupted then they do it.... Your moral quandary is after all worse than you imagine. Because there will be another woman. And then the great test will be begin.

So, so true....

@Hillrunner you won’t be surprised if I told you that a member of the family had the same pictures and video last week, and believed Alan’s spin on it.

I said the phrase hook-line-sinker yesterday, literally mr charming is doing his utmost best to convince his family he’s done nothing wrong and he is the victim.

Thank you for the additional posts since last night. These experiences are awful