Single Dad. How do I approach the subject of reducing child maintenance with my ex?

[malgrat78]

Hello, Father of a 12 year old Son here.

I separated from my Sons mum in 2012 & we have always tried to keep things amicable. At the beginning I lived in a 1 bed flat & my son stayed over on a Saturday night. When he was due to start High School I picked one that was a little more distance from his mum's house but it is a good school. I then decided to move to a bigger home close to his new school so that he could make his way to mine after school & wait for me to finish work. Over the last few years he started to find it difficult living at his mum's. There always seemed to be friction. I have never been totally happy with his mum's parenting skills which is one of the reasons that we separated. I suspected that she was taking amphetamines on the weekend & there were times where she allowed our son to have time off of school because she was feeling rough after her weekend binges. Due to my son starting high school & his unhappiness at his mums I suggested that he should stay with me 3 nights per week to which she agreed.

Over the last year things have got worse at his mums. Around 6 months ago she started seeing a guy who I later found out was on a methadone treatment plan. She basically moved him in within a matter of weeks. My son was immediately distressed especially as his mum tried to force my son to be affectionate to this guy. I have had reports from a neighbour that drug dealers are visiting the house. His mum is heavily in debt & she asks to borrow money from me regularly. Due to the concerns that I had I phoned Social Services who confirmed that the boyfriend was a know drug user but because there appeared not to be any immediate danger to my son they said they couldn't do anything. However, they did phone his mum who said everything was fine but she did lie about how many nights he stayed at my house. When I found out about that he was on a methadone treatment plan I advised his mum that I only wanted my son to stay over 1 night per week. I also spoke to my son prior to this & he said he wanted to be at mine 6 nights per week as he feels very uncomfortable around his mum's boyfriend.

When we changed from my son staying 3 nights to 5 nights I agreed that I would pay maintenance according to the .gov website calculator which calculates on him staying 3 nights per week or more. It doesn't give 5 nights. So, I basically reduced payments to what I thought was correct. She didn't like this & said that she wouldn't be able to manage to live which I found odd. The family based arrangement for child maintenance was agreed when we first separated & it was agreed that I would pay all her utility bills & give her any spare money left over totalling the amount calculated from the .gov website. So, what I did a couple of months ago was to stop giving her extra cash but still paid the gas, electricity, water, broadband & TV license.

I have started to struggle a little financially as I now have my son more & I still pay for things like clothes, his hair cutting, mobile phone, trips etc. She has stopped giving him pocket money recently & when I bought him his new school uniform which cost £200 she could only offer to pay me £20 a month towards it. This is all really annoying as she is on benefits & has her rent & council tax paid plus she now has this guy living with her who I don't think she has declared so I see no reason why she should be struggling for money unless she is in heavy debt which I believe she is or maybe the money is going on other things that it shouldn't be. But, at the end of the day my son is suffering. She also still receives child allowance from the government. When my son stays there he says that they are always mentioning that he should go back to living with his mum 3 nights per week but he doesn't want to. The boyfriend tries to make him feel guilty by telling him how upset his mum is that he wants to live with me more. They tell him that I am trying to buy his love because I spoil him which I don't. I enjoy taking him places & I will reward him when he has been good. I truly believe his mum & boyfriend have an invested interest in money & that is why they are always nattering him.

What made me post this question is that I have just stumbled across the Child Maintenance Service leaflet that says if both parents have shared care 50/50 then neither parents need pay maintenance. Prior to this I had agree with his mum that I would pay the bills totalling £160 a month. Now he is staying at mine definitely 5 nights & this could be 6 then I now think that I need not pay anything? If this is the case I have no idea how to break this to his mum as if I stop paying the bills she might not be able to have gas or electricity. I know this really isn't my problem & my main concern is to make sure my son is provided for which currently I do not believe he is from his mother. My current logic is that reducing the child maintenance that I currently give his mum can then go directly on my son for clothes & essential items. But, I am finding it difficult to not feel guilty if I do reduce the maintenance but again I currently have him stay over 5 to 6 nights so I cannot really see that she is entitled to much. Last week I had him 7 nights as he didn't want to sleep at his mums as he felt uncomfortable.

Any suggestions how I can tackle this & is it correct that should not be paying anything?

A really nasty thought here but she's way less likely to get to be RP again (not that she has much hope anyway) if she has no electric or gas in her house.

Her neighbour who used to be her best friend but has now disowned her due to what is going on said the exact same thing. As harsh as it sounds when I stop paying the bills this could happen. Then my son would definitely not want to be there & I wouldn't allow it anyway. As long as I am been soft & funding what ever she is doing she is not going to learn. Why would she is she has everything she needs handed to her on a plate?

The more I think about it, the more I agree, just stop paying for it all. Your money is masking the extent of the problems to everyone. She doesn't even have to worry about managing it because you pay the bills directly.

If any agencies are or become involved all the bills paid on time will make her seem far more organised and in control of her life than she actually is.

You have done everything you could for her, now it's time to make your son the only focus.

Ring the child maintenance service and they can advice you on how to handle this. They were brilliant with me and helped a lot. They will advice on what to do and will also help. My ex hadn't paid any child maintenance for 12 months and wouldn't communicate with me at all and they sorted it all for me. I don't think you should be paying her bills as presumably you have your own bills to pay? That's what her benefits are for surely.

The more I think about it, the more I agree, just stop paying for it all. Your money is masking the extent of the problems to everyone. She doesn't even have to worry about managing it because you pay the bills directly.

If any agencies are or become involved all the bills paid on time will make her seem far more organised and in control of her life than she actually is.

You have done everything you could for her, now it's time to make your son the only focus

Yes I totally agree. I think things have been getting gradually worse for a number of years. Thinking back she has always borrowed money from me for a number of years when in theory she shouldn't need to as she gets her rent / council tax & all bills paid so where has the money been going? Also, it appears that she borrows money from people that I am not aware of. I think this unsuitable guy moving in is the final straw. I actually think she has become reliant on him & he is taking advantage of her. But again this is now not my problem. She is 51 years old & is old enough to know better.

I think me continuing to help her out is just prolonging things & she probably does need to hit rock bottom & all I am doing is enabling her behaviour at the expense of my Son. I spoke to him this morning as he is due to stay there tonight & I can tell he doesn't want to go so I am seriously thinking of telling her that I am stopping all over night stays. My son is concerned that he wont get a good night sleep there & he might miss school. He doesn't want this as this term he has done amazingly well & has achieved 100% attendance! He finished the school year last year with just 93% & I truly believe that he has had 100% so far due to staying at mine the majority of the week. He now goes to school after a really good nights sleep & a solid healthy routine on a morning with no stress. He actually appears to enjoy school now to a certain extent.

Ring the child maintenance service and they can advice you on how to handle this. They were brilliant with me and helped a lot. They will advice on what to do and will also help. My ex hadn't paid any child maintenance for 12 months and wouldn't communicate with me at all and they sorted it all for me. I don't think you should be paying her bills as presumably you have your own bills to pay? That's what her benefits are for surely.

@Marie84 Do you know if I can phone them & ask for advice even if I currently do not use them as we have a family based arrangement? Yes I have all my bills to pay & they are rising as I am having to do more washing, cooking & I am using more heating / electric. Her benefits should enable her to live comfortably & pay for energy. My maintenance is meant to help with my son's upkeep but he is now only there 1 night a week & a few hours on a Sunday but she also gets £20 a week child benefit for him so she should be able to manage if she spends her money wisely. Also, she now has this guy living there who is on benefits so he should be contributing too.

I think realistically we can all give you advise over this platform but you need to get legal advice and take steps to having your son stay with you for 6 nights a week and having this legally recognized and possibly supervised visits with mom until she cleans up her act and lays off the
Drugs. I know it's a big out lay but you're better off having a solicitor tell you what's what; and get it finalized through the courts. And it will probably save you money in the long run.

In the mean time try and show your son as much love, safety, comfort and compassion as you can. As a teen watching a parent self distruct like that will have a life long impact on him. He will need as much routine and stability at your house to get him through this. You sound like you're trying to go your best for him given the circumstances and you should be proud of that. It's not an easy slog.

Hello OP

Firstly you have my sympathies. You are trying to do right by your son in difficult circumstances.

If you don't mind me saying you seem to have been influenced by an idea some other single Dads seem to have, that you are obliged to pay maintenance to your ex no matter what custody arrangements you have, no matter how much time your son spends with you. Maintenance is appropriate for you to pay her if your son stayed with you for a minority of the time. Now that he is with you for a majority, your ex is liable to pay you maintenance, as it is falling to you to cover more than 50% of the costs of taking care of him. Flip this around - would any single mums with sons staying with them 5 nights dream of paying their ex maintenance but receive none?!

Also, you have identified that you need to be ''less nice'' or stop trying to please everyone. Your posts have hinted that you are concerned, afraid even that if you stand up to your ex she will be able to 'get back at you' by taking your son away and restricting access. Could keeping your unstable ex happy have been done to try to keep the peace so as to buy some security of access to your son do you think? If this is the case then I don't say this as criticism, just it may help to understand why you keep ''buying her off'' despite everything. Fear that an ex has an absolute right to prevent access at the click of a finger is a common single parent fear, you wouldn't be the first to worry that.

You've started doing good work standing up for yourself and for your son's interest. But imo this should go further. Whether you want to receive maintenance from your ex or not, continuing to pay her money is irrational and harming your son (as you can't now afford to take care of him). She can't have him taken away from you. You can move past that fear. She will say what she wants, your job is to fight for your son and his interests, not to keep her sweet or keep funding her habits. You are the responsible parent here and simply being your son's mother doesn't mean she is entitled to your money.

If you ask yourself "why am I still paying her money", what is the answer that comes back? That answer should tell you a lot.

@53DutchTulip19

Thank you for this it's extremely helpful and you are 100% correct in everything you say.

Yes I have this belief that I am lower than my ex. I believe that she is more important than me as I'm just the dad.

Yeah if it was the other way round things would be very different. I think luckily I am starting to realise that I need to toughen up for the sake of my son and stop worrying about a woman who is now nothing to do with me and clearly doesn't deserve my help.

Why do I keep paying her money? There's 2 reasons. The first is because i fear she will try to guilt and bribe my son to go back to staying with her more days. But I won't let it happen as long as the boyfriend is there and she is unable to provide for my son. Secondly I'm genuinely fearful that she won't be able to manage and might get into real problems. Even though i don't have any feelings for her i wouldn't want to see this.

sometimes you need tough love
sometimes you need to get into real trouble to see what the mess you are making is all about
and I say that as someone who got in a big mess and got myself out of it

"I am starting to realise that I need to toughen up for the sake of my son and stop worrying about a woman who is now nothing to do with me and clearly doesn't deserve my help."

Bingo.

You do realise that by paying your ex partner's bills, you're essentially buying the drugs for her?

She can only afford them because you are paying her bills.

She does NOT need broadband or tv so stop paying that right away. Even if your son is there for one night, he does not need tv or broadband.

What's that, a spare £50 a month straight away. That's £600 over the year. Can go towards something for your son.

I also say stop paying the gas and electric.

@thatwasMauijustmessingaround

You do realise that by paying your ex partner's bills, you're essentially buying the drugs for her?

She can only afford them because you are paying her bills.

Yes I am starting to realise that she can only afford her drugs because I am paying all her bills. My son hasn't even stayed there over night in 2 weeks but I have still paid for all her bills! I bet her & her boyfriend are laughing at me.

She does NOT need broadband or tv so stop paying that right away. Even if your son is there for one night, he does not need tv or broadband.

This is very true. She says she needs broadband to look for jobs but she can do this at the library. I used to fix her computer when it broke. I recently refused & she said to my son "I cant believe your dad wont fix my computer. That's nasty"

What's that, a spare £50 a month straight away. That's £600 over the year. Can go towards something for your son.

Exactly! That could go towards some nice clothes for him. He doesn't ask for much but I would love to be able to buy him something nice or towards an holiday for us both in the summer.

I also say stop paying the gas and electric

I think I shall be stopping everything, He is rarely there. I know this will not go down well & she will likely try to guilt my son but I can no longer pay for my son when he isn't there.

Your ex is completely taking the pi$$.

For the sake of your son (if not yourself), you really need to stop or massively reduce your payments. They are helping facilitate her bad behaviour, which is directly or indirectly affecting your son negatively.

She is not your responsibility - he is.

@DoctorManhattan

Your ex is completely taking the pi$$

For the sake of your son (if not yourself), you really need to stop or massively reduce your payments. They are helping facilitate her bad behaviour, which is directly or indirectly affecting your son negatively.

She is not your responsibility - he is.

Yeah I totally agree & thanks to everyone who has replied to my post I am going to shortly stop all bill payments & considering what to do about child benefit. I may stop my son staying over night too as I do not feel he is safe there.

"This is very true. She says she needs broadband to look for jobs but she can do this at the library."

Not even 0.01% your problem

@malgrat78 yes just call them as they will give you advice even if you don't do it through them. Like I said they were very helpful when I called them. Good luck!

I’m sorry if I’ve missed this in the posts but are the bills in your name? Might be tricky to get the bills changed to her name if not

@CatToddlerUprising

I’m sorry if I’ve missed this in the posts but are the bills in your name? Might be tricky to get the bills changed to her name if not

Yes all bills are in my name. If I change direct debits to her name & bank & she doesn't pay I assume I shall be liable. It may be better if I cancel all the contracts & get hit with cancellation charges which will still be more than likely less than the following total amount of the bills. If this makes sense?

@Marie84

Thank you!

I would definitely speak to the companies and find out your options. I doubt they would accept you giving her direct debit details.
You are doing amazing for your son!

@CatToddlerUprising

Yeah I think I will contact them & find out & thank you!

If I were you I would have him for all 7 nights and stop all maintenance money. Also get gus child benefit paid to yourself to help with clothing and feeding costs. I would much rather give him a safe home. You dont want these horrible next few years, at his mums to affect him emotionally and mentally.

you may also get tax credits for him depending upon your income.
You can cancel the contracts on the utilities - it would be the same as if you were moving out. They will do a closing bill and then it will be up to her to take it over. You would be advised to ensure there is no link between the two of you - you can give the utility companies a forwarding address for closing statements, they will want to go out and get meter readings, and may do so if you cannot get in there yourself to provide them for you (dont do this by the way!)

I will also include all the bill account numbers, payment dates etc & will offer to change all direct debits over for her if she wishes

I think YOU should cancel the direct debits in your name when you stop paying for them....i highly doubt she will change them into her name otherwise.

There are two working age adults in her house - and it is THEIR responsibility to pay the utility bills.

Hi OP, firstly you sound like you are doing an amazing job.

Secondly I really would get this made official by the courts, push the mediation, especially if you know she'll refuse as this will go in your favour. You can then go straight to court and get a child arrangements order so he will officially live with you.

The danger if you don't do this is if he goes to stay with her one night and she refuses to let him come back to you, as there will be nothing you can do other than to then take it to court. There have been a few horrible posts on here of that exact thing happening and if you cut her money supply off she might get desperate enough to start using your son to get what she wants financially. (My ex tried to abduct our son so I've been there)

A lot of family solicitors do an hours free consultation and when I got my child arrangements order I represented myself, it was quite straightforward and not as intimidating as it sounds.

@Casander

Hi OP, firstly you sound like you are doing an amazing job.

Thank you!

Secondly I really would get this made official by the courts, push the mediation, especially if you know she'll refuse as this will go in your favour. You can then go straight to court and get a child arrangements order so he will officially live with you.

The problem here is that currently there is nothing to mediate about. So far she has agreed to everything I have said. This may change when I stop the bill & then I will be going straight for mediation.

The danger if you don't do this is if he goes to stay with her one night and she refuses to let him come back to you, as there will be nothing you can do other than to then take it to court. There have been a few horrible posts on here of that exact thing happening and if you cut her money supply off she might get desperate enough to start using your son to get what she wants financially. (My ex tried to abduct our son so I've been there)

If she tried keeping him my Son would cause an absolute fuss. She was finding it hard controlling his behaviour before so I am sure that she wouldn't be able to keep him. Also, I could have the police call round & ask him if he is ok & he would tell the police that he didn't want to be there so this wouldn't look good & I also Social services have been involved already but I understand & appreciate everything you are saying.

A lot of family solicitors do an hours free consultation and when I got my child arrangements order I represented myself, it was quite straightforward and not as intimidating as it sounds.

I am going to inform her shortly that all bills will be stopped then take it from there. She may just accept it knowing that my Son doesn't want to be there & also she has a lot of dirty washing that she doesn't want exposing. However is she causes a fuss then I shall be doing the necessary.