To be very concerned that this woman has children (trigger C.S.Abuse)

[Thechangednameoftheday]

Name changed for this for obvious reasons.

When I was twelve years old I made a friend, through a mutual friend, who was sixteen coming on 17 at the time.

No obvious problems at home and she came from a good family, supportive parents etc. Relatively nice life. I mention this incase anybody wonders whether she was vulnerable.

I however came from a single parent family, absent father and poor motherly parenting provisions. I was a bit of a lost soul. Damaged if you will.

The 16 year old (I'll call her J) would often go around with older guys (20-30) and would encourage me to tag along, drink and take drugs. It was commonplace for her to sleep with the men, often at her initiation. I firmly believe there was no grooming involved, she knew what she was doing and didn't receive payment or any incentive to go these things. She pursued these people for a 'good time' and enjoyed the lifestyle.

I looked up to her and began imitating her behaviour, drugs, drinking and having sex with older males. J encouraged this.

J would tell some of the men I was older (15) and tell me to do the same, but for the most part they knew how old I was.

As I got older I distanced myself from J because I felt increasingly extremely uncomfortable about the lifestyle, still just a child myself I was aware enough to know it was wrong. I developed other, healthier friendships.

I was friends with J from 12 years until almost 15 years old.

Now as an adult I reflect on this period of my life with sadness, shame and disgust. I stumbled across J on social media today by accident, she came up in our mutual friends, and I'm left with alot of conflicting emotions including anger toward her and confusion as to why she would have encouraged those things when I was just a little girl.

I couldn't fathom replicating her behaviour, when i was 16 I looked at a 12 year old as a young child and despite my own past would have reported anything of the sort to the police, not encouraged it.

My DM knew about some of this, useless as she is she didn't encourage me to report it. She is what people would call 'slow' and just didn't seem to get that you need to protect your daughter from things like this. I think she thought it was all my choice, which it was, but I was caving to peer pressure and at such a young age don't have the capacity to give righteous consent in the first place.

J now has children of her own, as do i. I feel uncomfortable about somebody with her attitude toward underage sex (which I now acknowledge as child abuse) having children.

I feel it's too late to do anything about all of this, it was years ago and I have no proof but I'm left with scars that pop up every now and then like today.

AIBU to feel this way towards her? At 16-17 can she be excused as just knowing no better? Is my anger misplaced? fwiw I am angry at the males too, but she was my friend.

Someone with her history, living in a small town where the group of men still lives, still friends with one of them, who has children, will most certainly find her children targeted by these men and their friends.

I'm sorry you've been through this and that it has stayed with you.

There is a woman local to me who wrote a book about her experience of similar, it's called Pimped by Samantha Owens.

It's only recently I've started to look at it as rape because at the time, being naive, I felt it was consensual.

If I can now see it as rape, surely she must?

Not necessarily.

She may still be mentally at the stage you were until recently.

Skade I don’t think you sound anything like J in fact if anything you sound more like the OP.

J could behave however she liked as when the OP knew her she was above the age of consent. It was the offering up a 12 year old as a sexual partner to men in their 20s and 30s that made J an abuser. Whether she was abused herself or not is a separate issue.

My OH knows nothing about all of this btw, I could never bring myself to tell him because I feel so tremendously ashamed and "dirty"

He has just come in from work and I said I'd like his take on something (this thread) and relayed it as though it written by somebody else.

I often talk to him about random MN posts so it's not unusual that I ask what he thinks about the 16 year old

He said it's deplorable. I asked what if she had been groomed herself. He said had been abused herself that is reason enough not to perpetuate the CSA of another child.

I'm thinking of opening up and talking about this with him, or a therapist, but need to come to terms with it myself first I think. I don't think in a million years he would judge me, he's a wonderful man, but because of the fact I've never spoken about it until today it still feels too raw to talk about IRL.

Please talk to a therapist first.

You really, really need to cast off the shame. A therapist will help you do this.

Therapy is a safe place where you can talk about anything, or even talk about how hard it is to talk.

I know of Samantha Owens, thequeef. We lived in the same area once. Infact it was her case I was referencing earlier when I said I knew about a case of similarity which resulted in the "J" in that scenario being sent to prison.

Much respect and admiration to Samantha for speaking out and finding her peace.

At 15/16 I would have never thought it ok to have a 12 year old friend.

However at 15/16 you still need adult guidance and I think we all made some bad decisions at that age. She was still a child after all.

I think it was unfair for her to drag you into her toxic lifestyle. However I think the adults in both of your lives should have done better. The men that you speak of were predators and are ultimately to blame.

I’m sorry you went through that by the way as no child or young person should go through anything like this.

You do need to deal with this, because your perspective is skewed.

You can not protect your children until you see the ways in which the other child (your friend) was unprotected.

Your (and apparently, your partner's) boundaries are seriously out of whack.

OP you can report what happened to you without pressing any charges. You can report it saying you are concerned this man now has access to another young girl. The police will run a Check on him and SS will possibly visit the mother to confirm whether he has contact or not. Your name wouldn’t even be mentioned.

I get what you’re saying, I went through similar and ended up pregnant at 12 years old.
I’m repulsed and ashamed of what I did but the only person I blame is the man that took advantage.
She may feel the same as you about it or she may not. The only way you’ll ever know is to ask, but that will open Pandora’s box and the fallout will effect you badly.
Just know that you were not to blame. You are not that 12 year old girl anymore.
Your feelings are justified but you can not possibly know what, if anything, J was dealing with herself.
I hope you can move on from this 💐

She was closer to 17 than 16, and we also can't say for sure there was historical CSA.

Yes CSA can and does result in behaviour such as hers, but we can't assume that this was undoubtedly the case.

What happened to you is horrific, clearly from your post you didn't have a supportive mother and no father. I do think you need someone to speak to about what is historic abuse.

Times have changed and while birth control can prevent pregnancy it can also be seen as a green light for sex with underage girls. It's being made clearer to boys under 16 sex is illegal, and depending on the relationship and difference in age men can be put on the sex register.

J could well have been groomed initially and the daughter of an employee at work had his daughter put into care as she had been abused while he was at work in the evening. It was explained to him that her sexual feelings had been awakened while she was too young emotionally to behave responsibly. She was already starting to encourage sexual behaviour in others and at 14 was put into a secure unit specially for abused children.

Recent cases taken to court have put the blame on the men perpetrating abuse. I think you have to put the blame squarely on the men involved.

I'm very sorry you went though that Crass12, i really really am.

Also others who have been through similar and felt triggered by my thread, I'm sorry to you too.

I hope you all have found or will soon find peace x

I hope @mnhq look at this thread.
You seem to be blaming j for the abuse she suffered at the hands of older men.
Yes she was no angel as a youngster but heat doesn't not mean she is a rubbish mum now. You're angry at the wrong person . She did not force you etc . Sorry but yabu

You want mnhq to look at the thread why exactly?

I've pointed out so many times I'm not looking to cause problems for J, I'm entitled to feel the way I do and I'm allowed to post those feelings.

This is the first time I've ever had the courage to speak about what happened, and verbalize my feelings, and you think it should be looked at why?

I haven't named J or said anything indicating I'm going to cause her harm.

Bollocks.

@Unshriven, can you explain why the OP's partner's boundaries are out of whack?

This thread is quite the pile on.

@Thechangednameoftheday, please don't regret posting here. Please, instead, view it as a breakthrough in that the trigger of seeing J on social media has caused you to finally break your silence.
I am so sorry this happened to you, & so sorry some pp's have given you a hard time. However ... if you are able, when you are ready, to look at your posting here as the first step in a journey of healing, the next step is certainly contacting a counsellor, or eg rape crisis centre, for support & advice to help you find the right therapist for you.

@rvby has contributed some amazingly insightful, compassionate & wise posts. I urge you to read her words again & again. The person you should be focused on right now is YOU. Forget what any randoms here think about J. J is not the issue - you are - you were exploited, drugged, given drinks & raped. You are blameless. The men who did this to you are criminal abusers.

It is absolutely normal & understandable for you to have very angry feelings toward J. You do not need to extend empathy to her. You do, however, need to find empathy & healing for yourself. Again, see rvby's posts ... much of your feelings about J are connected to regret, projection about your lack of parental protection, & deflecting or blocking the seriously distressing feelings about the frightening & awful men who hurt you. That's ok OP ... it really is ok. But it's not ok for you to have to carry these feelings & the awful burden of undeserved shame any longer.

You were a very strong young woman to be able to walk away from J's influence by the time you were just 15. I hope you can take pride in that. I hope even more, & fervently wish, that you now find that strength, & your anger - even at some of the posts here! - & use it to propel you into qualified professional support. Don't despair - instead, look at the horrible shock you had seeing J on social media as being the trigger that led you to post here, & then look at that posting as the step that leads you to the understanding, support & eventual comfort that therapy will bring you.

Look after yourself OP.
And please, please, find a counsellor you feel comfortable with. When you do (& btw you are allowed, nay, encouraged to 'shop around' until your gut tells you this is the right person for you) - you will be amazed at the understanding, self-compassion, awareness & healing you are capable of.

btw, I am also a survivor of child abuse. It took until my early 30's to start processing it via professional therapy. The support & insight it gave me was life-changing. If you wish to pm me, go right ahead.

I don't understand why I'm being accused of victim blaming.

None of us know her history so why are we assuming she has been abused as a young child.

I met her when she was almost 17, many 16 and 17 year olds are having sex of their own accord and do so with older men in their 20s which is perfectly legal, though questionable for the men.

It's pretty bad to excuse her part in this on the basis she may have been abused when there's nothing to suggest that aside the fact that it could explain her lax views to encouraging 12yo's to have sex.

What if she was never abused, why isn't that crossing the minds of many posters?

fruitinaheap there is every reason to believe that J is not in a place where she could effectively protect her daughter from the child rapist she is still in contact with.

Samantha Owens book Pimped is available in kindle if anyone is interested (she will get a few coppers from each sale)
Changed I'm glad you know of Sam and her story.
I know it's impossible to separate J from your abusers at this time because the fact is, without her it wouldn't have happened. The men abused you but she betrayed you. You need time and help to work this out until it's manageable in your head.

I really appreciate the supportive posts, they've had me in tears. Tears of relief and validation that I don't need to feel ashamed. Not about J, but about me. I am listening, I promise.

Thank you

There are some absolutely disgraceful posts here.

She was only a couple of years older than you tbh.