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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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To be very concerned that this woman has children (trigger C.S.Abuse)

313 replies

Thechangednameoftheday · 16/10/2019 14:15

Name changed for this for obvious reasons.

When I was twelve years old I made a friend, through a mutual friend, who was sixteen coming on 17 at the time.

No obvious problems at home and she came from a good family, supportive parents etc. Relatively nice life. I mention this incase anybody wonders whether she was vulnerable.

I however came from a single parent family, absent father and poor motherly parenting provisions. I was a bit of a lost soul. Damaged if you will.

The 16 year old (I'll call her J) would often go around with older guys (20-30) and would encourage me to tag along, drink and take drugs. It was commonplace for her to sleep with the men, often at her initiation. I firmly believe there was no grooming involved, she knew what she was doing and didn't receive payment or any incentive to go these things. She pursued these people for a 'good time' and enjoyed the lifestyle.

I looked up to her and began imitating her behaviour, drugs, drinking and having sex with older males. J encouraged this.

J would tell some of the men I was older (15) and tell me to do the same, but for the most part they knew how old I was.

As I got older I distanced myself from J because I felt increasingly extremely uncomfortable about the lifestyle, still just a child myself I was aware enough to know it was wrong. I developed other, healthier friendships.

I was friends with J from 12 years until almost 15 years old.

Now as an adult I reflect on this period of my life with sadness, shame and disgust. I stumbled across J on social media today by accident, she came up in our mutual friends, and I'm left with alot of conflicting emotions including anger toward her and confusion as to why she would have encouraged those things when I was just a little girl.

I couldn't fathom replicating her behaviour, when i was 16 I looked at a 12 year old as a young child and despite my own past would have reported anything of the sort to the police, not encouraged it.

My DM knew about some of this, useless as she is she didn't encourage me to report it. She is what people would call 'slow' and just didn't seem to get that you need to protect your daughter from things like this. I think she thought it was all my choice, which it was, but I was caving to peer pressure and at such a young age don't have the capacity to give righteous consent in the first place.

J now has children of her own, as do i. I feel uncomfortable about somebody with her attitude toward underage sex (which I now acknowledge as child abuse) having children.

I feel it's too late to do anything about all of this, it was years ago and I have no proof but I'm left with scars that pop up every now and then like today.

AIBU to feel this way towards her? At 16-17 can she be excused as just knowing no better? Is my anger misplaced? fwiw I am angry at the males too, but she was my friend.

OP posts:
LuluBellaBlue · 16/10/2019 17:35

wow I can't believe all of the comments!
So because she was a 16 year old girl she's innocent but if she was a 16 yr old boy then yes she would be held accountable by everyone.

Do people not realise that FEMALES can also be perverted, psycho, sick, paedos - groom people?!

OP I feel you are totally justified and if I were you I would speak to local police about the events of the past. Again, if she was a male that behaved in this way that now had children I bet people would advise this too.

Thechangednameoftheday · 16/10/2019 17:36

Thinking rationally and trying to respond from a place other than pain about the whole thing.. i think I'm angry (concerned, worried etc) because even now as an adult J thinks it acceptable to remain friendly with a man whom years ago (whilst in his twenties) raped a 12 year old. Why would she want somebody like that in her life?

That to me says she sees no problem with what they did. Surely.

It's only recently I've started to look at it as rape because at the time, being naive, I felt it was consensual.

If I can now see it as rape, surely she must?

I wouldn't want anything to do with these men, I don't know why she would, even just to have them on SM.

I'm struggling with this and I just can't see her as a victim yet, for reasons like this and others.

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 16/10/2019 17:37

FWIW I don't think she's abusing her children...

What I was concerned about, was the fact she has a daughter not too dissimilar to the age I was, and was concerned / wondering whether her thought processes had changed and whether she would safeguard her own 12 year old from similar behaviour

Failure to safeguard is abuse.

You say J is still in contact with one of the men who raped you as a young teen.

I feel very, very strongly that you should contact the NSPCC and tell what you know of J's treatment of you, the fact that she has children, and the fact that she is still in contact with one of the men.

This is not judgement of J. This is not an accusation of J.

It is concern for a child arising from the fact that J appears not to see this man as a danger to a child of hers despite what she knows of this man's character.

If she saw this man as a danger she would not be in contact with him.

Pringlesfortea · 16/10/2019 17:37

Seriously..op .POLICE ...report the lot of them

Thechangednameoftheday · 16/10/2019 17:38

I don't feel able to go to the police as I have no proof. The only person who could verify my claims would be her and she wouldn't.

OP posts:
Witchinaditch · 16/10/2019 17:39

She was a child also, it sounds like she was lost and damaged just like you. I’m not sure she is to blame for what happened to you both. Sorry you had such a tough start to
Life OP

Iwantacookie · 16/10/2019 17:39

OP I've been that 12 year old being lead astray by my older friends who then introduced me to older men.
I had the perfect life to the outside world. Nice house, 2 loving parents etc. Inside I never felt one ounce of love from my parents.
You cant say what was happening to J that you dont know about.
Yes it hurts to think your friends betrayed your trust in that way.
But she was just a child too.

mathanxiety · 16/10/2019 17:39

Thinking rationally and trying to respond from a place other than pain about the whole thing.. i think I'm angry (concerned, worried etc) because even now as an adult J thinks it acceptable to remain friendly with a man whom years ago (whilst in his twenties) raped a 12 year old. Why would she want somebody like that in her life?

That to me says she sees no problem with what they did. Surely.

And that is why you need to contact the NSPCC.

Springfern · 16/10/2019 17:40

I'm sorry for what you went through and I can understand why you're angry with her but I agree with the pps, your anger is misplaced. I would guess, at the very minimum, that J was sexually abused as a child. I used to work in this area and everything you describe (the wild, hypersexualised behaviour) is text book CSA survivor. And she was being groomed, as were you- by the adult men, not the teenage girl.

Thechangednameoftheday · 16/10/2019 17:41

At least 4 of the men are/were friends of hers, including the one I know for sure she is still in touch with.

I can say for absolute sure that there's no way on this earth she would support me in court if I tried to press charges.

Least of all because she now has children of her own and would have to explain remaining in touch with a child rapist.

OP posts:
Pringlesfortea · 16/10/2019 17:42

The police will speek to other people ..the fact you were 12 ,is proof he raped you

ffswhatnext · 16/10/2019 17:45

When I was younger I was like her in many ways. Still am (not underage sex) 30 years later.
To you, her life seemed ideal. You didn't see what went on behind closed doors.
As a parent, I have never encouraged this type of behaviour or displayed it in front of them. It's not that I can control it at times, but I can control my environments.

TheQueef · 16/10/2019 17:45

You can go to the police. You don't need proof.
Take it as far as you feel comfortable but I'd urge you to make a report and access the support. You can stop at any time.

Theyellowsquare · 16/10/2019 17:46

I get you. You are, for the first time, looking at your teenage years with 'adult' eyes and realising the horror of it all. You need time to process it all, it must be very raw still. I can almost guarantee your friend was a victim too. Her fucked up boundaries came from somewhere dark, her 'normal' was clearly anything but.

I really do think that counselling will help you find your way through all the emotions that you are processing right now Flowers

EZA15 · 16/10/2019 17:47

@Thechangednameoftheday my background sounds very much like that of your friend. My early teens / late twenties I was quite promiscuous and I knew what people used to say about me - ‘easy’, ‘brings it on herself’ and a lot of other stuff that I knew but won’t go into. Outsiders looking in wouldn’t realise that my mum once beat me so badly I was in hospital with a concussion a couple of broken bones. I was also being sexually abused although that it only something I’ve started speaking about over 20 years later.

What I’m trying to say, rather clumsily, is that you don’t actually know what her childhood was like you only have a perception of it. I do think some vulnerable people have an air of vulnerability about them and this can attract some horrible people - this was definitely the case for me. I do think your anger is misplaced, by your own admission some of the men knew your real age. She was as much a victim as you were and now she’s a parent she probably dreads them getting to the age she was and tries to protect them in a way she wasn’t.

ffswhatnext · 16/10/2019 17:48

Have you asked her?

I was still in contact for a few years after everything stopped btw. The fear from the power games was still there. Well still is although I no longer have contact, it doesn't stop the fear of bumping into them.

PookieDo · 16/10/2019 17:49

Your recent update does put a different light on this. I think if you had said from the start she is still in touch with all of the men AND has DC that would have been quite different...
unsure whether any of them are the father of the children?
She would have been 22 when she had her DC then if this happened 18 years ago

mathanxiety · 16/10/2019 17:50

Don't even think of pressing charges right now.

Your focus needs to be therapy for yourself, so you can process it all.

(You may feel like approaching the police once you have talked it over with a therapist, and with the therapist there to support you in any dealings with the police. You may not feel after therapy that approaching the police would be a good plan at all. No matter what, I would seek the advice of a therapist before making any decision on police involvement.)

But you can speak anonymously to the NSPCC about the fact that J remains in contact with a paedophile/ known rapist even though she has children of her own, and I urge you to do so.

Clutterbugsmum · 16/10/2019 17:56

I don't understand why everyone is blaming OP.

OP you have every right to be angry at your 'friend'. You were 12, you were put into a position and situation you should never have been put in the first place.

And yes the 'friend' may have been groomed, but she was 16/17 and should never have put you in a dangerous situations. She was grooming you to behave like her.

Counselling may help you to come to terms with what happened to you as a child.

TheQueef · 16/10/2019 17:59

Which post is blaming the OP Clutter?

Thechangednameoftheday · 16/10/2019 18:00

I don't know that she's in touch with all of the men only that she's in touch with one, which is bad enough.

Its a very small town so she probably sees the others around at some point, I just don't know whether they talk.

I've moved away since all of this. I have a career and a family now.

No idea what she's doing with her life but she's not with either of her children's fathers (open social media) and I don't know who they are.

I genuinely believe she sees everything that happened as nothing more than young rebellion. No, I've never spoken to her about it all and that's just my take based on assumption.

By the time I'd reached adulthood we were not speaking, she was catty toward me as she were when I was younger but I became less tolerant of it and wanted nothing to do with her and the feeling was definitely mutual. As soon as I began to stand up for myself when she tried to bully me she wasn't that interested in having me around anymore.

I do wish I could have had a sit down conversation with her as adults but it was never pissed.

OP posts:
Thechangednameoftheday · 16/10/2019 18:01

It was never possible I mean, not pissed.

OP posts:
Skade · 16/10/2019 18:01

I am left feeling quite upset by your post OP, though not your fault. You could have been describing me between the ages of 13-15 when describing J. I was left to raise myself and my younger brother from the age of 10, and my promiscuity with adult men was solely based around wanting affection and someone to love me. I don't doubt I was a singularly horrible teenager to most of those around me and I struggled with alcohol abuse. However, I have raised two amazing adult sons now and would be utterly devastated if I thought that someone who knew me from then believed that my children were at risk due to my past behaviour. I understand that you feel that you were encouraged by her into inappropriate behaviour when you were too young to understand or to be able to consent, but please try to acknowledge, even if you can't empathise, that she may have been battling her own demons and that as an adult now she may be a completely different person.

mathanxiety · 16/10/2019 18:07

It is not because of her past behaviour that her children are at risk.

It is because she is still in contact with one of the men whom she knows raped the OP and because her past behaviour included encouraging men to rape the OP.

Mermaidtissues · 16/10/2019 18:08

She is despicable, I’m so sorry that this happened to you. Don’t look at her on SM, it’s not helping you.

Talk to a professional about your feelings, get them out and try to find some peace

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