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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To be very concerned that this woman has children (trigger C.S.Abuse)

313 replies

Thechangednameoftheday · 16/10/2019 14:15

Name changed for this for obvious reasons.

When I was twelve years old I made a friend, through a mutual friend, who was sixteen coming on 17 at the time.

No obvious problems at home and she came from a good family, supportive parents etc. Relatively nice life. I mention this incase anybody wonders whether she was vulnerable.

I however came from a single parent family, absent father and poor motherly parenting provisions. I was a bit of a lost soul. Damaged if you will.

The 16 year old (I'll call her J) would often go around with older guys (20-30) and would encourage me to tag along, drink and take drugs. It was commonplace for her to sleep with the men, often at her initiation. I firmly believe there was no grooming involved, she knew what she was doing and didn't receive payment or any incentive to go these things. She pursued these people for a 'good time' and enjoyed the lifestyle.

I looked up to her and began imitating her behaviour, drugs, drinking and having sex with older males. J encouraged this.

J would tell some of the men I was older (15) and tell me to do the same, but for the most part they knew how old I was.

As I got older I distanced myself from J because I felt increasingly extremely uncomfortable about the lifestyle, still just a child myself I was aware enough to know it was wrong. I developed other, healthier friendships.

I was friends with J from 12 years until almost 15 years old.

Now as an adult I reflect on this period of my life with sadness, shame and disgust. I stumbled across J on social media today by accident, she came up in our mutual friends, and I'm left with alot of conflicting emotions including anger toward her and confusion as to why she would have encouraged those things when I was just a little girl.

I couldn't fathom replicating her behaviour, when i was 16 I looked at a 12 year old as a young child and despite my own past would have reported anything of the sort to the police, not encouraged it.

My DM knew about some of this, useless as she is she didn't encourage me to report it. She is what people would call 'slow' and just didn't seem to get that you need to protect your daughter from things like this. I think she thought it was all my choice, which it was, but I was caving to peer pressure and at such a young age don't have the capacity to give righteous consent in the first place.

J now has children of her own, as do i. I feel uncomfortable about somebody with her attitude toward underage sex (which I now acknowledge as child abuse) having children.

I feel it's too late to do anything about all of this, it was years ago and I have no proof but I'm left with scars that pop up every now and then like today.

AIBU to feel this way towards her? At 16-17 can she be excused as just knowing no better? Is my anger misplaced? fwiw I am angry at the males too, but she was my friend.

OP posts:
Crass12 · 16/10/2019 18:42

Thechangednameoftheday
I found a certain level of peace with a lot of therapy but it will never ever leave me.
I don’t think you can ever fully recover from traumatic experiences.
Seeing her on SM has brought back horrible memories for you and you’re angry. I would recommend speaking to a counsellor or other professional to help you come to terms with what happened.

mathanxiety · 16/10/2019 18:43

The place you might go to find a counselor or a referral to a therapist is your local Rape Crisis Centre.

Lovetoread84 · 16/10/2019 18:45

I actually know a few women who I went to school with who were like this. Especially around groups of Asian men. These girls were from nice homes but one I know her parents seperated and I think she must have sought out male attention elsewhere. They used to act as if they were really cool and brag about it to everyone. Some of these girls got pregnant, those kids are now 18 themselves. And they've gone on to have more children. I don't think for one moment that they would condone that life style now and probably regret it all and are deeply embarrassed.

Thechangednameoftheday · 16/10/2019 18:46

There is a huge difference between a 12 year old and somebody approaching 17.

I've asked @MNHQ to move this to relationships as I think it's better placed there

OP posts:
Unshriven · 16/10/2019 18:46

mathanxiety the OP is blaming another (female) child for the abuse she suffered.

She can't recognise that the other child, althouth a few years older, was also abused by men.

She therefore won't recognise red flags when they appear for her own children (male & female).

Abusers seek out those whose boundaries are off.

Rainonmyguitar · 16/10/2019 18:47

When I was twelve years old I made a friend, through a mutual friend, who was sixteen coming on 17 at the time

I think you were groomed by the 17 year old 'friend'. I can't understand why you're getting such a hard time here OP, there's a huge difference between a 12 and a 17 year old.

LilyMumsnet · 16/10/2019 18:47

We're just moving this to relationships for the OP. Flowers

Bornlazy · 16/10/2019 18:50

She was 4 years older than OP not a couple.

I too don’t understand why everyone is so sure that J was abused. There are lots of almost 17 year olds who are sexual active with older men but they are not encouraging 12 year olds to do the same.

Thechangednameoftheday · 16/10/2019 18:51

If an almost 17 year old sleeping with men in their twenties is abuse then why is it legal.

huge difference between her sleeping with these men and encouraging a 12 year old to.

No evidence whatsoever to suggest she was being abused by these men that she was seeking out to "party" with. If she had been abused previously which resulted in her lax attitude, none of us know that.

An almost 17 year old looking for and contacting to "party with" (her words) is not grooming or abuse.

Pushing a 12 year old to have sex with them is.

OP posts:
BrieAndChilli · 16/10/2019 18:52

Without you knowing her now you can’t really say if she’s changed or not.
Plenty of people are drug addicts/alchoholics/promiscuous/criminals/troublemakers in their youth but then change their life and themselves and become different people. They shouldn’t be villified now for past behaviour if they have done their time for past crimes etc
No, a 16 year old shouldn’t be encouraging a 12 year old to have sex and drink etc. But I’m assuming that when she was 12 she was dragged into that lifestyle somehow and so probably saw it as normal. At the time she probably enjoyed the attention and thought having older men shower her with sex and booze was a good thing. Also a 16 year old being good friends with a 12 year old is quite unusual and indicates she wasn’t as mature as you thought she was.
However she has probably grown up realised what a horror it was, is ashamed of her actions and wants to forget it ever happened. She may have had counselling to come to terms with her past and like previous posters have said she is more than likely to have been abused at some point. Seeking men out for sex is a very common behaviour for people who have had emotional detachment as a child. They are so hungry for love and attention they will seek it out even if that is having sex with inappropriate men.
She may however be just as you think and still encouraging 12 year olds to have sex.
But you can’t know that, I feel you are projecting what you want her to be on to your image of her now and think you need counselling to truly come to terms with what happened when you were younger.

Unshriven · 16/10/2019 18:52

But Bornlazy those whose boundaries are off, tend to be those who have been groomed/abused.

The OP is apparently blind to the dangers in front of her.

Lllot5 · 16/10/2019 18:57

I’d be very worried about her children now you said she is still in contact with one of the rapists.
Could you perhaps phone nspcc and tell them your worries about her children.
The advice to get counselling is good advice too I think. Flowers

Thechangednameoftheday · 16/10/2019 18:57

My boundaries to safeguarding my DC are spot on thanks. They will never be exposed to anything that I have.

OP posts:
Bornlazy · 16/10/2019 18:57

Unshriven “tend to be” that does not mean they definitely are. You are very sure that this is the case even though the OP was there at the time and doesn’t think this was so. Of course you’ll know better than her. It’s extremely insulting to suggest that she and her partner will not recognise signs of their own children being groomed because of this.

Thechangednameoftheday · 16/10/2019 18:58

That wasn't to you btw Llot.

Those of you who have suggested counselling I will definitely consider that

OP posts:
iamtinkabella · 16/10/2019 19:01

OP, i havent read every reply on the this thread but i think some people have been a bit harsh on you. what you went through is something no child should ever have to go through so i can sympathise with youre anger towards your former friend. She might not have been typically 'groomed' but those men still took advantage of her, but she took advantage of you, too. Its a horrible situation in general and something you shouldn't have to deal with. It is totally normal for you to feel anger towards your friend.. you trusted her. She probably also feels angry towards herself too.

Try to not let this eat away at you. You are more than all this anger and hurt and nothing, unfortunately, can change what happened all those years ago. Your former friend may be an amazing mother now, you never know. And never ever be afraid to report any historical abuse, no matter how long ago it was. Thanks

Babochan88 · 16/10/2019 19:02

Hi OP

I completely understand your point. This new idea of victim blaming (or not) undermines responsibility. And the reality is that you can be abused and you can also have a degree of responsibility in abuse. I would
Like to add that This is not the case for all people that are abused.

But in J case she most obviously was abused but also sought it out. In that, she is partially responsible for being used by predators. This new wave thinking will fume at what I’ve said but it’s true.

Furthermore she encouraged you to have sec and do drugs. She is responsible for the delinquency of a minor.

Hat being said, we all change. You cannot say that she’s a bad mother now

ethelfleda · 16/10/2019 19:13

Poor you OP Flowers
Some of the replies you’ve had are so unfair. What you went through was terrible. Whether or not you are right or wrong about J, I don’t think YABU as you’re probably hurting so much from the situation and need someone to aim that hurt at. Maybe your friend is the perfect recipient for it. Maybe she isn’t... either way I think you owe it to yourself to talk through how you’re feeling with a professional.
You were treated very, very badly and I’m so sorry for that. I hope you can find some degree of peace Flowers

betternamepending · 16/10/2019 19:15

Those of you who have suggested counselling I will definitely consider that

Please do. You still have a lot of hurt and anger about that time in your life. You deserve to work through it and gain some peace. That doesn't mean that it's ok what happened to you, it's not and never will be but you deserve a way forward without this anger and hurt.

DarlingBuds19 · 16/10/2019 19:29

I very surprised by the responses you've got itt op. I think she definitely does hold some culpability for what happened to you, it was predatory, prettyt sick - and yes, I'd concerned about her behaviour towards children since then ....

However I also heavily suspect she was abused (before that) and that was a factor in her behaviour. And obviously she was also being groomedanc exploited by the 20-30 ye old men.

I'm sorry your mum was so utterly useless as well.

Unshriven · 16/10/2019 19:33

In case of doubt, I'm coming from the perspective of protecting my children.

If my 16-23 year old had behaved as the OP's friend had, I'd assume my child had ben groomed.

That is not the normal behaviour of a teenager/young adult, with a boundaried upbringing.

She should have been parented/protected.

mathanxiety · 16/10/2019 19:33

There is no 'therefore' about it, Unshriven.

Your comment about the OP's partner was even more unwarranted than your misinformed post about the OP's ability to protect her children.

MummyMCM · 16/10/2019 19:37

Good god you’re ignorant

Unshriven · 16/10/2019 19:39

mathanxiety I will protect my children the best I can.

Boundaries in place, and the confidence to question, and ask.

Schuyler · 16/10/2019 19:40

You’re focusing on the wrong thing, you’re focusing on J and her role in this. I understand that seeing her on social media has brought this up but you’ve described so many painful emotions and I do think you’d really benefit from a decent counsellor. I’m sorry for what you went through. It’s unspeakable to think of a child being subjected to that and so sad that you still feel so ashamed when you did nothing wrong. I hope you can find some healing. Flowers