'Ideal man' - am I seeking the impossible?

[SundayMorningAndImFalling]

So. After a conversation with a friend this weekend, when he was asking about my 'type', and I couldn't quite articulate it, I have been giving it some thought.

I've been single for much of the past decade and, after a previous pretty dire and disastrous loveless/sexless marriage with someone entirely incompatible and unsuited to me, I have come up with the following. I'm not looking for 'perfection'; just for enough of the boxes to be ticked to make them recognisable as 'suited to me'.

I am looking for a man who:

Is kind/thoughful/compassionate/loyal and respectful.
Is musical/creative.
Is humble/self deprecating.
Is not arrogant or over confident.
Has similar political leanings/social attitude to me.
Whose work is about making people's lives better rather than making loads of money or who volunteers to achieve this in addition to work.
Is sexually compatible/doesn't think foreplay is ramming as many fingers as possible inside you or that sex is a technical 'performance'.
Is intelligent/a critical thinker.
Supports and encourages me.
Is independent but also prioritises me when appropriate.
Loves me and finds me attractive/desireable.

Its not that I never meet men who are anything like this just that, when I do, they are already attached or just not attracted to me.

I think I have similar to offer.

Am I really asking for the moon on a stick?

You haven't mentioned looks at all. Are you genuinely not bothered or are they something that is a bit subconscious?

I’d go for compassionate, kind, make me his priority when it’s important. I would offer drama free and a pleasure in my own life. As well as make him my priority when it’s important.

OP, I'm also a person men never fancy! In darker moments I feel I must be ugly in both looks and personality, but that can't be true and logiclly I know it must be something else. Maybe I just come across as self contained and not needing anyone. Who knows!

Wishing you the best of luck in your quest, your list seems reasonable to me with nothing out of the ordinary. It makes sense to highlight music when it plays such a big part in your life. I'd imagine if you spent time together, a man who didn't like music would just fall away because so much of what you do is connected to it.

That's my husband too. Men like this do exist.

Sorry- but your update re the defence lawyer really does suggest to me where the issue lies .
You are far too black and white in outlook and dare I say it a little opinionated ......
You judged someone on their outlook on an area of their profession and they were ruled out ?

If I were you if think carefully about that area of your personality and see where you could start to think with a broader view on life and people in general ....

I hope you find it constructive... I’d give dearly for someone to have suggested that to my younger self .....

I've been out all afternoon and just off out to see some friends shortly so will think about these replies and respond properly later.

Just to say though, Hopoindown31, they'd need to be attractive to me but I dont have a physical type and I find someone more physically attractive once I've got to know them anyway. I've lost interested in men I've found physically attractive when I've got to know them and fancied men like mad once I've got to know them despite being physically put off them initially.

babbi compassion is a really important quality to me. I'm not going to be attracted to someone who openly admits they have no compassion for others. If that makes me 'opinionated' then so be it. I rejected him because I didnt find him attractive for a number of reasons - this was just one of them. But it was a big one.

I will likely stay single for the foreseeable future.

Why? I have standards, just like you do.
Plus, I have DC, am a lone parent and my life/work is too hectic to find the time for love and romance. Also, sadly, most genuine people are too cautious when it comes to falling in love and don't want to seem desperate. Me included.

Sigh

It’s not a piece of cake being conventionally attractive either. I’m not a supermodel by any means but many men seem to like me (especially married ones, unfortunately) and women often don’t. Wives and girlfriends are usually very suspicious of me.

Men tend to just use me for sex - some have lied for months to get me into bed - and can’t seem to see that I have an interesting personality as well. 😔 I often feel like a piece of meat to men and it’s incredibly depressing.

Also, for what it’s worth, my list of “non-negotiables” is much shorter than yours but it’s just that. Every item on there is essential.

The thing is if you have a shopping list, it means you're shopping for an object. And people are not objects.

There are men out there who are exactly as you describe but they're from a deprived background and can't afford to work in a non profit and HAVE to make money in the private sector. Because they have to support certain family members who'd be in dire straits without that help. That is their volunteer work right there but you'd not give them a chance to show you that. (Show, not tell. Many men in that situation develop elaborate macho excuses as to why they make the choice to pursue income or status. It can take a good year or two to see the little boy under all that who is just trying to take care of everyone.)

Theres men who have a deep creative streak that has been beaten out of them and unsupported all their lives and who, if someone took the time to really know them and accept them as they are and have a deep, compassionate curiosity about them as people, would find at age 40 they suddenly pick up a paintbrush and learn how to be the person they weren't allowed to be.

Theres men who have had shit sexual experiences and had to go through the motions with partners who weren't interested in them sexually but (perhaps) were using them for money, security etc and they may not have had the chance to learn happy sexuality.

You're looking for a person who has already learned it all and "perfected" themselves in a very specific middle-class naice ham kind of way. I.e. you're looking for an object that would please you, that would in itself be a symbol of status and accomplishment for you.

People are human, they develop throughout their lifetimes, they're not products.

Learn to actually be fully interested in people, to give them your full attention just for the sake of it and they will blossom in front of you. As long as you have a fantasy shopping list you are missing the richness of reality.

You described my OH. I wrote a "ticklist" similar to yours, of the truly ideal man for me, knowing it was unrealistic to expect someone to tick every single box. He did! He isn't perfect, but neither am I.
I don't think you should be searching for "the ideal" but neither do I think you should compromise on things that are important to you.

That's a good list and similar to mine. I also have "is sporty/ into fitness" on mine, because I am, and anything else isn't compatible.

I don't mind a few insecurities and physical imperfections, I have no height criteria. The most important is honesty and kindness

I just wondered whether the attributes/qualities/values I like can be found in men. obviously it is possible for a man to display these qualities. Is this really a question?

Men just dont seem to fancy me in the main - but theres nothing anyone here can do to help me with that

Ime people who feel no one fancies them are typically overly worried about being attractive vs. finding the attractive bits of someone else. I have known some really unlovely looking folk who are HUGELY attractive because they are passionately interested in the people they meet. They're unselfconscious, generous and accepting. And they are rarely alone because they are loved and fancied by dozens of people at any given time...

Also..
www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/fashion/no-37-big-wedding-or-small.html

I'd suggest going into it with a very open mind and not dismissing people too quickly if at first they don't seem to tick the boxes.

Yes, very true. Like I said, it's not that I have a checklist I match men to and, when they fail to meet one, I disregard all the good stuff about them. The men I have dated have tended to fall at the 'honest, kind, respectful and compassionate' level. It doesn't matter how musical etc someone is at that point! They're gone.

The only reason I compiled any sort of list is because, as I said, a friend was asking me and I just had a bit of a think about the things that I'd ideally want in someone. They're not demands or 'Must Haves' - just preferences, qualtities I'd like and a couple of non negotiables.

As for where I meet men, I don't do online dating - I've tried in the past but I've never met anyone 'decent' that way. I quite enjoyed meeting different men when I did it but it was more of a hobby in itself rather than a way to meet someone. I can't really be bothered, and I don't have the time, to spend messaging lots of random men in the hope that one of them turns out to be decent. I'm busy!

Other than that, I met a guy at a gig a couple of years ago. But, like I say, I don't really meet many single men or men who are attracted to me so, at the moment, it's all a bit academic anyway!

What do you think it is that means men don’t usually fancy you? Appearance wise, personality wise?

Honestly? I don't know. I'm not conventionally attractive but I'm not unattractive either - I've been told I'm 'quirky' but, tbh, I can't do much about my face! I'm a size 12 with a reasonable hourglass figure. I don't wear much make up but I make an effort with my appearance generally. I get on with people. My female friends and married male friends tell me I'm lovely and attractive and they don't know why I'm single. A couple of them have said that if they'd met me when they were single they'd have been interested (not in a sleazy, angling for an affair sort of way). So I don't know. But single men are rarely, if ever, interested.

I don't think any of them have any single male friends tbh.

And I don't see the point in pretending to be something/someone I'm not. I want someone to like me for me not because they think I'm someone else.

I'd imagine if you spent time together, a man who didn't like music would just fall away because so much of what you do is connected to it.

Exactly.

SonataDentata That sounds a bit shit too!

rvby Well all of that goes without saying and all of those are things you find out about a person by spending time with them and getting to know them when an attraction grows and you become closer. I'm attracted to men who are able to be vulnerable. I have no interest in 'macho' posturing. I certainly have no expectations of someone to be 'perfect'. It's a person's imperfections and idiosyncracies that make them attractive.

I am fully interested in people and I don't have a shopping list - which I think I've made clear several times now. Just a few ideas of the sort of things I'd personally find attractive in someone. There are a couple of non negotiables in there but, in the main, it's pretty flexible.

I don't think you should be searching for "the ideal" but neither do I think you should compromise on things that are important to you.

Yeah, that's pretty much where I am.

That's a good list and similar to mine. I also have "is sporty/ into fitness" on mine, because I am, and anything else isn't compatible

Exactly.

I don't mind a few insecurities and physical imperfections, I have no height criteria. The most important is honesty and kindness

Absolutely! I don't go for classically attractive men. I think I've only ever been attracted to a couple of men who other people would agree were 'good looking'. It's definitely the other qualities that attract me more. Height wise, I'm much more comfortable with someone between around 5'6 and 6'10 but have been interested in men who were both taller and shorter, for example.

Is this really a question?

No, not really. It just feels like it sometimes.

Ime people who feel no one fancies them are typically overly worried about being attractive vs. finding the attractive bits of someone else

I thought this was a really interesting comment and the whole post really. So I spent a bit of time thinking about it honestly. I do find the attractive bits of other people. The men I am attracted to aren't conventionally attractive - it's definitely someone's personality that attracts me more than looks or status etc. But I do also worry about being attractive myself. I wouldn't expect something from someone else that I wouldn't be prepared to offer myself.

But I'm also quite quiet. I'm find once I get to know someone and am 'quietly confident' but I think I could easily go 'unnoticed' in a room ful of people. I don't tend to put myself into the middle of things at all.

It's hard isn't it? I'm clearly doing something wrong and, if I knew what it was, I could do something about it.

It's just hit me hard recently and something happened that made me realise just how big a deal it is for me. When I've been pootling along all this time thinking I'm quite happy being on my own. When really, I'm not.

You might have to compromise on some things but being on the same page about aspirations, politics and attitude to money and what success means is essential. Those issues cause the most disagreements. I will say I have a friend who is early 40s very picky, who has a list like you and a vision of this perfect man and her last boyfriend was in 2003. Restricting yourself so much might make the amount of men who qualify quite small.

Thanks, Sable.

These are not strict criteria - I wouldn't disregard someone because of their job, for example, but I don't think I have an unrealistic idea of the qualities I'd want in someone.

To me, those things seems pretty 'bottom line'. I haven't mentioned anything like looks or income or status or assets - just aspects of a person who makes them a good and decent person.

I'm actually amazed that some people consider wanting to he compatible with someone in terms of political and social position; is sexually compatible; kind etc; is supportive and who desires me is 'restricting' myself!

What do other people look for in a partner then? Beyond just 'fancying' them because - believe me, I've also dated men just because I fancied them and the chemistry was strong and that was a disaster!!

Surely everyone looks for something in a partner??

Yes your list is a bit picky. Probably not hugely so. You don't want a man who's ambitious and driven. That's sensible, most men aren't. But does he have to do volunteer work in his time off? Although I imagine if you met a man you were strongly attracted to this list would go out the window!

And how do you know most men don't find you attractive? If men find you attractive most aren't going to make it immediately obvious. Most men have too much tact (and are too nervous) for that.

I’ve been married for 15 years and I would say my husband is somebody I love and fancy but somebody I can live with. A friend I can sit in the pub and have a drink and a chat with easy company. He is not my typical type either. I used to always date alpha males army officers who I would fall in love with but treated me badly. When I first met my husband I thought he was too nice for me! Discovered that actually we were very similar deep down. Both bookish, irreverent and slight odd balls also have similar political views and the same attitude to career and aspirations. It works but sometime that person might not add up on paper.

Sable but what you've described there is someone who is compatible with you rather than someone who is superficially your type. That's what I'm talking about - I want to meet someone who is compatible with me on a deeper level than just finding them physically attractive.

Scott I've already said, many time, that it's not a definitive 'shopping list' I obviously wouldnt reject someone I got on well with because they didnt volunteer in their spare time.

That's probably the least important thing on there but is indicative of the 'type' of man I'm looking for - someone who isn't just out for himself and to line is own pockets regardless of anyone else.

I also found the musical/ creative requirements a bit wanky unnecessarily fussy, but you've explained that due to your hobbies and lifestyle most people you meet fit that box anyway, so that's less odd than it initially looked!

The rest seems reasonable and realistic enough, it's just having an explicit checklist that's a bit... teenage. You didn't have that until your friend promoted you though.

Shared values are definitely important, yours seem reasonable.

There’s no rhyme or reason I guess just keep an open mind but if you’re looking for happy and long term it must be somebody essentially you can live with every day but doesn’t bore you! Good luck.

I also found the musical/ creative requirements a bitwankyunnecessarily fussy, but you've explained that due to your hobbies and lifestyle most people you meet fit that box anyway, so that's less odd than it initially looked!

Yeah, I can see that. But I'm out at band practises 3 nights a week, gig a fair bit at weekends and go to jam nights etc. So yeah it is a big part of what I do. Ideally, I'd like to meet someone who is interested in similar things.

I don't have a checklist. I just meet men and, when I get to know them, I'm either attracted to them or not. I tend not to be attracted to men who don't meet at least some of that criteria - so I just wouldn't be attracted to a well toned man who played a lot of sport who voted Tory. I would think that, if we were so incompatible on those very basic levels, for example, then we'd be unlikely to be compatible on other levels. As much as anything, our lifestyles wouldn't match.

Thanks, Sable tbh, what you have described with your husband epitomised it. You thought your type was one particular sort of man but, actually,, it was someone you got on with and had similar values and standards to etc. That's all I'm saying really.

And how do you know most men don't find you attractive? If men find you attractive most aren't going to make it immediately obvious. Most men have too much tact (and are too nervous) for that.

Firstly, I'm only ever really strongly attracted to men who have at least some of those qualities. That's what I find attractive about a person - that's what attracts me to them!

So, I quite like someone at the moment. I've known him for a couple of years but it's only since the summer, when I've got to know him better, that I've become attracted to him. I know he's not interested though.

Oh didnt finish. Secondly, I assume that, if someone was interested, I'd find out eventually. I'm fairly open if I like someone - not OTT but I'm not ashamed and I don't hide it. In fact, since I split up from my husband nearly 10 years ago, I've only dated men I've asked out. But they've not worked and it's usually come down to a lack of respect. So I've decided I'll wait to be asked in future!

I've always been attracted to people quite different from me in terms of interests/ talents/ skill sets, but with shared core values - broadly but not minutely similar political and social outlook is important to me but not shared hobbies - too much in common can be a negative long term IMO.

On the other hand to potentially bring up children together and live together for multiple decades, you need to agree on childrearing if that's going to be relevant (do you want children, how many roughly - it doesn't matter much if one wants 2 and one 3, but if one is ideologically committed to an only child and the other wants double figures it does! Do you expect to bring the children up within a religion, do you feel strongly about a sahp or use of childcare, do you have strong feelings about types of school or homeschool). Broadly similar attitudes to religion are important. Broadly similar attitudes to extended family (how often do you see them, are you committed to living within close proximity to them) or awareness of and acceptance of the other person's different attitude are important. Are you mobile or tied emotionally to a home town or county/ country permanently.

On the trivial side do you enjoy the same "down time" - do you both read or like the same TV or enjoy cooking or walks or background music/ radio. I don't think it's necessarily healthy if your joined at the hip out of the house, it's good to have seperate hobbies and independence - but can you chill out together?

I think I'd look at it from a different angle.

Doesn't mean your wrong, but an opposite sex version of you might not make for the ideal mate over the decades... You need a broadly shared worldview behind enough difference to keep life interesting IMO.

Thanks, and an interesting perspective, Another

I agree with you but I hadn't looked at it quite like that. I had an issue once with someone who seemed to be supportive but then wanted me to miss a band practise if he wanted to see me or whatever - I can't do that - i enjoy it and I've made a commitment and would be letting people down. So they'd have to understand that.

Children wouldnt be an issue. I have one who is an adult and a teenager. I'm not looking to have any more.

I'd really like to meet someone and for us to be good for each other. My relationships have been shitty, tbh. I thought I was happy being single and I am - to a degree. I dont want to be single forever though.