Supporting DP through Divorce

[tellietwotums]

Background, been with DP around 18 months, he has been separated from stbxw coming up to 2 years. As yet neither has started divorce proceedings, however DP wants to get the ball rolling.
Difficulty is where to start as DP works away all week and only back in home town at weekends, so seeking legal advice is difficult.
Currently stbxw is living in joint family home with 2 DC. My DP is paying the full mortgage every month but does not pay cm. We have DC eow and they come to my property.
Filing the papers on 2 year separation is easily enough it's just the financial element he is struggling with. I was hoping mnetters could offer some advice I could pass on to help things.

Stbx works min hours and DC school age so no reason why she can't increase this. However on her current income she can't afford to take over the mortgage alone and buy him out. He can't afford to finance this home and purchase another at the same time.
Stbx believes my DP has to continue to pay mortgage and that she will keep the property. There is not much equity in the house and a court battle would eat this up in fees.

DP doesn't currently live with me, you could say he's no fixed abode as hotel accommodation is provided in the week whilst at work and he stays with me every weekend. My property isn't big enough to house us all permantly (I also have 2 dc) and the only way for us to provide stability for all DC is to move to a bigger property together. Obviously this isn't possible under the current circumstances.
The only way this would be possible is for stbxw and DP to sell family home, split the small amount of equity with a clean break and start again.

However as stbxw can not buy another property in this instance and would have to rent, doesn't want this to happen and will not agree.

Where does be stand legally in this situation?

He could stop paying mortgage but then she would not /could not pay and would fall into arrears and risk losing everything in the property.

I've urged him to go and get a free half hour but time is proving impossible as working from 7am to 6pm and out of town.
DP is self employed so taking time off not an option.

Any advice would be appropriate.

He needs proper legal advice (not just a free half hour) as every couple’s circumstances are different.

I had to sell the family home but in my case there was a lot of equity to split to allow us to both move on.

A solicitor would need to know everything eg earnings, savings, assets, debts, pensions, ages of children, earning capacity, length of marriage etc.

Presumably they both own the house? If she can't afford it alone they'll need to sell but he needs to speak to a solicitor. Tell him to book a day off work..:

Booking a day off isn't an option. As I said he works away and the location changes. So if he took a few hours off and saw a solicitor in one town/city, he wouldn't be in the same place for repeat appointments/advice.

Ideally he'd work back local for a while whilst it all gets sorted but being self employed he has to go where the work is. It's a nightmare

Yes both currently on the mortgage.

If he approached an estate agent to market the property does she need to give her permission?

The only fair way would be to sell it and split what little equity there is between them, however she doesn't want to do this as she doesn't want to move into rented, she will not get another mortgage on her income and minimum part time hours.

DP is self employed so taking time off not an option
Of course it's an option.
He books a couple of solicitors appointments for a Monday morning and then heads off for work on the Tuesday.
It's all about priorities here.
He HAS to have legal advice.
So he HAS to see a solicitor.
So he HAS to take a bit of time off of work.
He doesn't have to ask anyone for permission for time off.
He plans it in advance so he can cover the work he misses.
I assume he's never taken a holiday while he's been self-employed?

Either that or just carry on and never get anything sorted out!!!

If he wants this sorted he needs to go and see a solicitor. Bearing in mind that if she did so first he could end up in a situation where he is liable for the mortgage and she also goes to the CMS for child maintenance. H
Him paying the mortgage will not be taken into account with regards to CM so it is in his best interests to see a solicitor. Added to which, while he has a mortgage on the family home it is unlikely he would be able to get a mortgage to buy a property in his own right.

If she refuses to sell the house then the courts can order this as part of the consent order however going through the courts is expensive and they’d be better off trying to work things out between them.

Given she works part time and is the primary carer could they perhaps agree that she take more of the equity from the property and that he then pays CM rather than the mortgage?

DP is self employed so taking time off not an option

Self-employed people take time off for this kind of thing. Seeing a solicitor about a divorce is as serious as taking time off for a hospital appointment (which I assume he'd do)

People can divorce without a solicitor. There are two elements to the process. First the act of dissolving the marriage and secondly agreeing a financial settlement. The former cannot usually be achieved without the former and divorcing without a settlement is unwise.

Financial settlements can be fairly straightforward or incredibly complex depending on the circumstances and behaviour of both parties. If they both won’t do basic things to progress the divorce it will be expensive and painful.

The reality is that they are both content with the status quo. The wife may be hoping for enough time to increase the equity to the point she can afford the mortgage. She probably knows he is not going to do anything. He sounds like he is useless and/ or making excuses. Being married is a great excuse to never have to marry again.

Well he will have to carry on as he is if he can’t take a day off for legal advice. The problem is they don’t agree. No he can’t put the house up for sale without her permission. It could get complicated in these circumstances. My case did go to court as ex and I couldn’t agree on a single thing.

If he wants to sort this out he will, it's as simple as that. Self employed or not, he can take a day off if he wants to, yes he'd lose a day's pay but surely that's worth it to get this sorted out? My feeling is that both he and his ex are happy as they are for now, but I hope I'm wrong

He needs to prioritise sorting this out. I understand that it impacts your life but it's his situation to sort out (or not).

You need to take a step back after explaining to him that it's important he resolves it. If he does then you either accept the status quo or end the relationship.

It seems you've bought into his excuses (that's what they are). He could see a solicitor and get the ball rolling if he wanted to, he just isn't making it a priority.
For example, a first appointment with a solicitor will most likely be over the phone anyway. Then everything else can be done electronically, on the phone or by post. Even if he did need to see a solicitor in person he could make an appointment first thing Monday morning at a solicitor near your home then head off to work. If he was bothered he'd be doing this.

He does need proper legal advice. When my ex and I split (our kids were older teens) the financial agreement stated he would pay the mortgage of the house until the youngest is 20 and half any uni costs once the existing savings had run out. The house was transferred into just my name.

I thought this was very generous of him but he told me it was him buying his freedom to live a single life and I would have all the responsibility of keeping a home for our children and dogs. As it wasn't any different to what I was doing when we were married I didn't argue!

Your DP and his ex can agree whatever financial settlement they like but it will keep solicitor costs down (I paid £175 an hour plus £17.50 for a phone call - all plus VAT!) if they agree between them what they want before other people get involved.

If he is using work as an excuse to not divorce then it is an excuse not a valid reason.

Don't push for his divorce. When did he start staying with you every weekend and what did he do before you were on the scene?

Getting an estate agent to value the house without her knowledge or agreement will just cause acrimony so don't suggest he does that. It is a very hostile action. Most people know approx house values so at this stage it isn't necessary. Be careful with your involvement as it could be seen as trying to provoke his wife, which will backfire on you in the long term.
Mediation is the best approach anyway and he will be told to do this by a solicitor before any court action.

He needs to prortise this, suspect the reality is it is uncomfortable for you regarding your house so are you more motivated to move this along that him..his actions or non actions speak volumes.

Him and his wife will need to find a good housing solution for his children. His wife may need to step up work but suspect he will have to pay more for longer than he would like. It will not be easy (or sensible for you) to get another house for both of you so perhaps get him to focus on finding his own place first.

Be cautious that you are not rushing this fir you..what would happen if this relationship fails in 2-3 years, would you be able to buy him out, or would you face moving your children?

If he wanted the divorce/finances to be dealt with, he would do so.
If something is important to you, you MAKE time.

You seem to want this far more than than HE does.

He is housed, he lives with you in your house.

She is housed, she lives in the marital home.

It sounds like you would like the marital home sold so that you and partner can buy a larger house together but that won't necessarily be best for the children of the marriage - if their mother is made homeless and/or moving frequently from dingy private rental to dingy private rental, moving schools, doctors, etc.

A family court case would be very costly and could surprise and disappoint you with the outcome (and cost you £10s of thousands of pounds in legal bills). He won't thank you for building acrimony with his first family.

I'd he wants to divorce, he'll divorce. If you have to do it for him, he doesn't want to.

Booking a day off isn't an option

This sounds like a smokescreen

Ok let me clear a few things up.

1. I don't need or want a bigger house. The one I have is adequate for me and my children. I agree he can have his children here as he has nowhere else to take them and I have made adjustments to my home to accomadate them when they are here.

2. he hasn't had a day off (even for hospital appointments) since they separated as his finances will not allow for that. As stated he's paying for hotels and is still paying for the family home and a number of associated bills.

3. I am not pushing for him to get a divorce. That is his decision and one he will action when he is ready, I have offered to seek advice about the financial situation to assist this process.

4. I am the higher earner and if things did go wrong later down the line, yes I would be able to buy him out. However we are happy and I doubt this would happen. I didn't rush into this relationship.

5. before we met he was working local and sleeping on his mother's sofa. The reason he took work further afield was to increase his earning potential as the maths just wasnt adding up. Access was rarely overnight and at his mother's.

What I'm trying to get across here is that at the moment things are very unfairly balanced in Sbxw favour so obviously she will not want to rock the boat and would want to keep things as they are as it works for her. As far as I was aware he is equally entitled to provide a standard of living for his children as she is, and them sleeping on my bed sofa with none of there personal belongings here or space of their own doesn't equate to that!

Wether the solution to this is us moving in together or him getting his own place is irrelevant. What is relevant is that this isn't fair or sustainable for the long term on him or his children.

In terms of relationship with stbx things are amicable with the exception to this issue. I was just looking for advice ref the financial side.

What does he think is fair and sustainable?

He could get an early morning appointment and go straight to work afterwards as a pp pointed out.

2) he hasn't had a day off (even for hospital appointments) since they separated as his finances will not allow for that. As stated he's paying for hotels and is still paying for the family home and a number of associated bills

But this is always going to be his situation until they divorce if he doesn't have the bottle to stand up for himself, surely?

Why not just tell her she needs to pay the relevant bills and use that money to take a day off?

The only fair and sustainable solution is to sell the property and split the very small amount of equity, which wouldn't equate to a deposit on another house for either party but would assist with moving costs etc. However she will not agree to this.

If it goes to court there will be no equity for either party once court and legal fees are taken into account.

My DP invested a sum as deposit from a property he owned prior to his relationship/marriage and he obviously will lose a substantial amount but would like to minimise his losses as much as possible.

If he stopped paying the mortgage it wouldn't get paid, house repossessed and both walk away with nothing.

As it stands at the moment he continues to pay to try and protect his investment And is pretty much stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I agree this is his issue to sort out, I was just looking for advice to see if there was something, if anything he could do to force a sale without court etc and both leaving with nothing.

Common sense is not prevailing in this situation!

most of your posts just talk about the stbxw being better off, but your dp is living in a home that is owned by his partner and has the luxury of choosing to work long hours with no childcare issues. The ex is juggling work and childcare.. Which can actually be harder when they are in school if wrap around care isn't adequate. Plus if they sell, you and he will be able to buy a bigger place, she with full time care of the children will be in a smaller rented place with less security for his kids. EOW contact is not remotely similar to day to day raising of them. The settlement should be skewer in the exs favour because she predominately has the kids.

@angrybird I'm not sure if you missed the part where I said I also have 2 school age children.

When my relationship broke down I increased my hours, payed childcare fees and moved into a property I could afford. Oh and at this point 1 of my DC was pre school age, but guess what, I managed it. My ex DP and I made a clean break with both of us being able to provide suitable accommodation for our DC. (He also only had EOW access)

He is only working these long hours and away from home to be able to continue to pay for the property she is living in without her making any contribution to it all, and also claiming in work benefits as a single parent.

It's not about who is better off, I asked for advice as this is not sustainable, as Much as stbxw would like it to be.

We do not live together. He lives in a hotel and stays over at mine at the weekend. This doesn't constitute him living .with me. He makes no contribution to my household at all.

I came here for practical advice to support him in finding a solution. Not to be flamed and accused of wanting to turf her out so I can have a bigger house myself.

The fact of the matter is, dp can not move on whilst this financial commitment is hanging over him, with or without me involved.

Surely he can take a day off or use some holiday time? If not, he may find a solicitor local to you who's willing to see him on a Saturday morning. I'd suggest he looks at the Law Society's website for practical guidance on finding a solicitor, mediation and the divorce process.Good legal advice wil pay for itself down the line - he can get advice on protecting his interest in the former family home, making a will and dealing with other assets, like a pension. Ultimately it's up to him. If he 'can't' find the time, maybe he's not ready to change the staus quo?

He needs legally advice because actually selling the family home and splitting the equity MAY NOT be in the best interests of the children. There is a chance that she could stay in the house until they reach 18.

I think you need to have a long hard look at this relationship as most of what you say paints him as the victim and her as the one causing all of these issues.

What he pays in hotel fees could actually get him somewhere - he could clearly have a break to get legal advice. The fact that he wont is that the status quo suits him as much as his ex. He gets a hotel in the week (easy in terms of cleaning etc for him) and goes to yours at the weekend where you also help with the kids.

You need to ask yourself why HE doesnt want to do something about it and being too busy is not an excuse

My DP invested a sum as deposit from a property he owned prior to his relationship/marriage and he obviously will lose a substantial amount but would like to minimise his losses as much as possible
This is why he absolutely must get legal advice.
He must make time for it.
Nothing will change until he does!
It's that simple.