Continuing a relationship with a sociopath is a bad idea, isn't it?

[Housec0at]

I'm in a relationship with a sociopath, I'm not being an armchair psych as he has an official diagnosis of ASPD (antisocial personality disorder) although he disputes the diagnosis, but he would wouldn't he.

Its early-ish days and so far he has been fine. I've seen no aggression or indications of violent tendencies, he comes across as calm and collected, he's very giving, patient and respectful but I realise this is likely to change later on down the line and for that reason alone I've started to pull back.

Diagnosis aside I really like him but since finding out about the ASPD and educating myself I don't think I can stay in the relationship out of fear for the future.

Part of me feels like a shitty person for considering abandoning somebody because of something out of their control especially when he's given me no cause for concern prior.

My logical head says there's no way I can have a healthy relationship with somebody with that condition and A quick MN search reveals threads upon threads of horrible experiences at the hands of people who were only suspected of having the disorder.

Can people with ASPD have healthy relationships or is he destined to be abusive?

I could say that yes longhair, though I'd be worried about inadvertently demonizing them in his eyes and making him resent and blame them for the relationship ending

Yes, this is exactly what may happen.

You can't bring them into it.

You might want to have a read of something about breaking up with sociopaths.

Yes I think this is the right decision OP. Lucky escape...

I'm currently watching YouTube videos from a self proclaimed and diagnosed sociopath who doesn't show his face but explains his personality in great details, it is chilling to say the least

Whilst his objective is to obtain your love, company, hand in marriage, babies or whatever it is in his interest to be nice not lie etc so he will come over normal. Once his objectives drift elsewhere he may stop being nice, start lying, pleasing himself basically. The one person I knew like this was always actually supremely self centred but came across as normal and nice whilst everything went their way. They didn't end up violent but the coldness they were actually capable of was well, chilling.

Pathological lying about trivial things is one to look out for. Reality doesn't really exist for them it's all subjective around their egos needs. No solid moral compass. It can become really disorientating to be around, you end up wondering which way is up so you're right in my view to be cautious.

His family also need you to be the focus of his attention so that he gets the fuck out of their faces for a while....

Having a criminal past is only part of the diagnostic criteria. As PP said, many of the well educated ones end up in politics and the corporate world (Read the Psychopath test).

Theres a man in the book who is in a mental health hospital who committed a small crime and prentened to the courts that he was 'insane'. They admitted him for decades and he said that the more he claimed to be sane, the more insane the psychiatrists believed him to be. The actual truth was that they knew he was a psychopath and not safe to be released. He of course professed they had got it wrong and the author was struck by how charming and well dressed he was. The PP who said the system failed him due to him seeking help for trauma, it's dangerous to assume that the diagnosis is wrong based on a few things the OP has said. The only difference between sociopaths and psychopaths is that psychopaths are born and sociopaths are made (often in response to childhood trauma). Yes it's sad if he has experienced such a high level of trauma that it resulted in sociopathy but as another PP said, it's not worth sacrificing yourself for. Of course he will deny the diagnosis as lying is part of the diagnostic criteria.

My ex didn't get a criminal record until he was in his mid 30's but that was only because he didn't get caught until then. So many cases of DV against me and my children were dropped due to lack of evidence, so anyone meeting him that did a police check wouldnt have found anything on his record. Thankfully he is now serving a 15 year sentence but I still worry to this day that he will try and track us down when he gets out.

My understanding is that sociopathy is the end stage of NPD and they have no empathy which is what makes them so dangerous. People are seen as pawns to be manipulated for their own gain. They are often highly sadistic, gaining pleasure from inflicting suffering on others. These are the men that kill their partners for leaving so please be careful how you end things with him. He is already showing signs of a sociopath/NPD (e.g. grandiose sense of self, superficial charm, lovebombing etc)

I wouldnt call him out or challenge him. I would simply tell him this isn't working for you and end the relationship and then block him on everything. There is a very high change he will harrass you when you leave.

Please be careful OP. Many women don't get to find out they are with a sociopath until it's too late, you have been given a very good oppertunity to get out before that happens.

Seconding (thirding, fouthing...) the advice to make yourself come across as boring as part of your escape strategy. (I've also found coupling this to their own sense of grandiosity works: "you need a girlfriend who is feisty and full of personality to provide the challenge a strong man like you needs, not mousey little me" - it's vom inducing to have to do, but if it's that or rape/other violence, what's a bit of sick by comparison?)

The other thing to be aware of is that therapy often makes sociopaths more dangerous, because it doesn't make them better, it makes them better able to mask (and gives them a whole new language of buzz words which in a world where women's mags present pseudo therapy speak as a sign that people are sensitive and have "done work on themselves" makes them better placed to con people). I have a relative who's a sociopath (official diagnosis by the criminal psychologist on his offender management team). I was explicitly warned of this tendency to weaponise therapy speak by the family liaison officer.

Just run. SIL is married to one and he’s made ALL our lives hell.

Be boring- not interested in sex, stop looking good, be busy cleaning your house, picky about where/what you eat. Make yourself not worth the effort- too much work for not much reward.

Jaffacakes he sounds vile I'm truly sorry that you've been through hell too.

I agree with the PP about being fortunate in the sense of having an early warning, alot of women don't, as I can see.

All I have to go on about him not having a record is what he's told me, and the fact he has an important(ish) role in work which I don't think he'd stand a chance at having if he had a record.

A lot of very helpful and insightful advice here thank you all, needless to say I am taking it all on board and will proceed with caution as I distance my self.

I like the idea of making myself seem boring and unappealing. It is better if he loses interest, I think.

We often video call so the next time he phones I'll not bother with make up, sound disinterested and bored.

Bored might make him angry. Aim for boring. Talk too much, don't be funny, don't be flirty.

No record could just mean he's never been caught though.

You're doing the right thing by stepping back. Women are not responsible for broken men and if were in our power to rehabilitate them, the world would be in a better state than it is now. Prioritise you and your children's mental health and safety- you can make a difference there.

the fact he has an important(ish) role in work which I don't think he'd stand a chance at having if he had a record

You would be surprised.

Not having a criminal background doesn’t mean he is not a sociopath just that he had not been found or is doing other bad things that do not attract a prison sentence like leaving a lot of people without income, damaging adversaries reputation beyond repair, bullying employees into depression or suicide, etc.

I think we must have married the same man!

Do you know anything his past relationships op?

Not that it matters really, I just thought it might be a good insight. I would just re-iterate that you need to end things with him. Its not worth the risk when you have children. Also, when you get more sucked into the relationship it will be harder to get out. He might keep this mask on for a long time and it only slips when you are living together. Scary thought.

Good luck ending things. Just make up an excuse and don't mention his diagnosis as being the reason.

He's mentioned two exes when we were talking about relationships, one he says was an amicable split after 8 monthe but the other (longer) one he doesn't speak fondly of.

Its cliche but he give me the whole "she's mental" speal, so in hindsight that's another red flag I didn't latch on to at the time, probably because it was said in conjunction with him being amicable with the other one.

His history and how he came to be the way he is are irrelevant. (Women are trained by our society to invest far too much time in the unanswerable question of why men behave the way they do and not nearly enough time to the much simpler question of whether that behaviour is acceptable).

You've realised this relationship is unlikely to be a healthy one for you going forward: the only question now is how to extricate yourself safely and with a minimum of fuss.

Have a look at the Hare Checklist. It seems to be what they use to diagnose. I think you’ve done the right thing in walking away. Especially as you have children.

yy to Hare checklist. Although it takes a while for that to fall into place imo. Mine fitted it all, apart from the last 3 that I just didn't know about.

I forgot about the pathological lying. You can't trust anything he says - even the minor stuff. Mine lied from the start, about his age on tinder, his marriage (when it had ended), his affairs, his relationships, his endless jobs. And that got worse. I don't think he even recognises the truth these days.

(and yy to psycho exes. I'm one myself. I'm very proud of that (as the geekiest, most honest, most law-abiding person you could meet).

Google 'grey rock', thats what you must become to him.

Mine told me his ex was crazy because a year after we started dating she was still contacting him and then she contacted me. Turns out they were still in a relationship!!! She was heartbroken but he told me she was crazy and wouldn't let go and he finished with her 18 months previously (despite my detective work finding Fb and insta photos of them after we started dating).
Last year I contacted one of his other "crazy exes" after I tried to end it with him - she had been moved my Womens Aid after he flung her over the balcony and hid her car/house keys so she couldn't get back into the house where her 2 week baby was! He denies to this day the baby is his.

I would still do a Sarah's Law and Claire's Law request.
This is the MET's advise for Sarah's law
And this is the advice for Clare's law from Thames Valley

Forget about the Hare list, you have not had him around long enough to be able to answe the questions right in his behalf.

@IdiotInDisguise no she probably hasn’t been around him long enough for the Hare List but it’s worth looking at to note what other characteristics he has that would have led to diagnosis. Just in case she needs to reaffirm in her mind why ending it is a good idea.

My ex was a psychopath, the relationship did not end well. He became abusive and controlling, threatened to kill me a couple of times with a knife to my throat.

When I did leave him he stalked me for months, he used to follow me in his car when I walked to work and would wind down his window to shout obscenities at me obviously embarrassing me. He also turned up at my house a few times and occasionally would just park outside and sit there in his car. Posted letters through my door, used other people’s phones or phone boxes to call me because his number was blocked so I had to change my number. After a few months he assaulted me in broad daylight so I had to phone the police (obviously should’ve done it sooner but I was scared to).

Please leave, they can pretend to be whatever they want. They cannot actually love you and have zero empathy, it’s all a facade. They can turn incredibly nasty, especially if you don’t adhere to their ‘rules’.