Does this person sound like a friend?

[gearandloathing]

Long term friend, 21 years since university days. It's been mainly ms staying in touch. Last saw each other in May.

Texted last week to say hi, how have you been not heard from you in a while. No reply. Sent a couple of chaser texts a few days ago. Last one 'just checking your getting these'as I seriously thought after 6 days and 2 texts there 'd be a reason I wasn't hearing back.

Got rant text back today saying how I was making him feel like a bad friend for forcing him to reply and he'd been busy etc. He was on holiday but only in UK so not like he was abroad. Said I'd turned replying from a pleasure to a chore.

Am I the one in the wrong here? Yes I did send a couple of chaser texts but only cos the first one went unanswered.

Feel now like I am really questioning this friend ship and my place in it.

... Though I wouldn't have sent his reply. I'm a classic introvert and like my space - I would probably have had a rant to my husband and ignored the messages until I came home.

I hate this and find it rude. I once texted a flaky friend to confirm arrangements about an evening out. No reply for days. On the day of the event I chased. Had the reply 'oh didn't i reply, I texted back in my head.' No more social arrangements have been made since.

I think it's very rude to not take a few seconds to reply to a text. I always imagine that those who do not reply looking at you DSis are very same people who won't come to the door if a friend popped by unannounced. For those who don't reply in a reasonable timeframe or at all, would you also ignore and walk past a friend trying to say hello in a street? Are you the ones to sit in your living room looking at a friend trying to get you to come to the door? Or are those wanting your time the ones in the wrong for expecting you to give it without prior notice? These threads always make me curious.

Yes, it's strange how much people are divided between

The sender being the one who deserves a response and the receiver being rude not to give it (wtihin a reasonable timeframe)

and

The receiver being the one who has the right to reply or not at their absolute discretion, and within whatever timeframe they deem reasonable and the sender is the rude one for even expecting a reply!

Quite eye opening really how much people differ on their view of this!

Then again... Reflecting on my response, it does depend on how close I see a friend as. If it was someone very close I probably would never leave replying more than 24 hours because I wouldn't see their text as intruding on my space. I know there's no logic there! So perhaps pp are right, and it shows that he doesn't see you as a very close friend.

I get what you mean @Lauraloop1516. That's why it is hard not to take such things personally and just rely on the other person being busy or whatever!
We make time for those important to us. Then again, he did say today that he is like this with everyone and named a person who I know he is quite close to who he said he never got in touch with either.

I'll be honest OP, I don't think I would want to continue a friendship with someone who a) ignores me repeatedly and then b) has a go at me and tells me that it's a chore to bring himself to actually bother speaking to me. If it genuinely is a pleasure to speak to you then he would want to do it rather than ignore you. He's not a friend.

Oh and apologising later also wouldn't cut it. It's all well and good saying sorry later but it doesn't take back his ignoring you for a week and then having a go at you. Fuck him. Don't bloody reply.

Gosh, yes you were unreasonable to have chased him after less than a week! With not only one but two more messages, the last one being a clear demand to reply ASAP (the ‘are you getting these’ message).

That would be enough to seriously put me off someone and make socialising with and contacting them feel like a chore, I used to have a friend who’d do that and it got to the point where I’d feel my heart sink seeing their name pop up on a message.

You send a message when it’s convenient for you and he gets to reply when it’s convenient for him, your fear that if you don’t chase him he’ll never reply is yours to deal with, you were rude to try and resolve that anxiety by putting the onus on him to respond sooner than he would have done otherwise so you could obtain relief rather than actually acknowledging and working through your own anxious thoughts.

You may have resolved this situation but moving forwards you’ll push people away acting like this. Nothing is more offputting in a friendship than someone being demanding of your attention rather than settling into a natural rhythm where you both initiate contact when it works for you, it’s clingy and needy. Even in my closet friendships a week or four can go by without a reply to a message and nobody gets their knickers in a twist, everyone knows the friendship is meaningful and that people have busy lives to be getting on with as well and when you do get in touch it’s lovely to catch up and like no time has passed at all.

Definitely don’t do this again! I’d be reconsidering the friendship in his shoes, I’m glad he felt able to actually confront you instead of just brushing it off so you know how he felt about it.

I don't think I would want to continue a friendship with someone who a) ignores me repeatedly and then b) has a go at me and tells me that it's a chore to bring himself to actually bother speaking to me.

Really? Cos he didn’t reply for six days?

To be fair he said it was being made into a chore because he wasn’t allowed to actually reply at his leisure when he wanted to/it was convenient for him, and no wonder. OP left him in a situation where he could either reply on demand to soothe her anxiety or feel like an awful friend if he did wait any longer to responddema. I suspect anyone would see that as a chore as it’s so demanding and weirdly needy.

Wow this topic is so polarizing!

But rest assured Jemima I won't be chasing after him again.

From a personal perspective if I didn't reply to a friend after 6 days and got a chaser text, I'd probably think 'shit I forgot to reply' and send them a text telling them that (and answering the original text). I wouldn't find it irritating unless it happened all the time. But I accept we are not all like that and for some people it is annoying.

Do you tend to feel smothered in your friendships Jemima? You seem to almost resent other people having expectations of you, given your story about the friend who made your heart sink when you saw their name? Does it feel uncomfortable for others to have any expectations of you at all?

I see you replied to his brush off, and this makes me feel you are clingy.

You have said no more contact, but I wonder whether you will stick to that. I think not.

Just leave it, he doesn't want to be bothered with you- possibly painful but take the hint.

He sent a quite nice message saying he valued my friendship and not to take it personally if he didn't get in touch as he was like this with everyone. I'm not ditching a 21 year friendship after that!
If he really didn't care he wouldn't have bothered to reply at all.

I never said no more contact, just that I'd leave it for a bit and phone rather than text in future. This was before this morning's text though.

Do you tend to feel smothered in your friendships Jemima? You seem to almost resent other people having expectations of you, given your story about the friend who made your heart sink when you saw their name? Does it feel uncomfortable for others to have any expectations of you at all?

No, not at all :) the friend I mentioned, it really wasn’t working at all and we’re no longer friends. But that thankfully is the only example I’ve come across of somebody who would do the message chaser after a few days thing. Nobody else I’m close with behaves in that way. We send messages, understand the other will reply when they have the time and energy and desire and don’t monitor the time frame or anything along those lines.

If it’s the case it’s urgent, like a response is needed for a time critical event, or something bad has happened or someone is in need of support then it’s clear from the message and I’d reply as immediately as I’m able to, both via message or driving to be there if appropriate, or calling if that’s what’s going to work best.

I’ve been very fortunate in life to have a good circle (well, a few circles) of friends of between a few years and a couple decades standing, all of these friendships involve both pure enjoyment and fun over the years but also being by each other’s sides during difficult painful life events, but I wouldn’t want to be friends with someone who would freak out over me not replying for a week and send several follow up messages like that (your last one did come across like you were insisting on a response or you’d assume the messages weren’t getting through and start going through other channels). Far too much drama and clinginess. Friendships aren’t supposed to be fraught like yours sounds where you’re fearing rejection and looking to him for confirmation your anxious thoughts aren’t true.

I have expectations of friends that we’ll be there for one another when the going gets tough if able to, and hope that as long as it’s working and enjoyable for us both we’ll continue to make time for one another. I don’t expect a friend to adhere to a one week timescale in replying to a general catch up message and would feel pretty suffocated and irritated if that was the vibe I got from someone.

Re the friend I mentioned, there could never be any natural give and take back and forth as he would message me, wait three or four days and then message again, over and over again. So I never had chance to miss him or reach out to him, it was like a barrage of communications no matter what I did or didn’t say or do in return. It was just too much and I felt a bit like his only friend and like he was placing far too much importance on our contact levels in his life when I had a job, hobbies, other friends etc. too. It could have been a really nice casual friendship of catching up every couple months and staying in touch but his belief that his desire for me to reply within an arbitrary time frame was most important and his behaviours in chasing up when that didn’t happen just turned me off completely. It was almost like my own levels of what I was comfortable with in terms of contact didn’t matter and he’d just keep pestering.

Your post just resonated as it’s what I experienced from him and it was awful. But I guess we just weren’t compatible as friends, as it’s not something I’ve experienced before or since with anyone else.

Ironically people who are terrified of rejection often end up causing others to pull away with their expectations and inability to understand it’s not all about them and their desires.

Sorry for third message on the trot, but your decision to ring him rather than message in the future isn’t much of a way forward as you’re just swapping contact to a more immediate method so that you get to speak to him immediately rather than learning to sit with your emotions when he takes time to reply (which he has every right to do, a week isn’t any time at all). Wouldn’t it be better to continue with messaging as you have before but revisit your work in CAT and challenge the overwhelming anxious thoughts of ‘he doesn’t want to be friends’ ‘he won’t ever get back to me’ ‘he doesn’t care about me’?

If he’s feeling a bit smothered and aggrieved already to the extent of sending that message when you asked if the messages were getting through I can’t imagine you switching to calling him will make anything better between you both, as if he doesn’t pick up or call back fast enough you’ll just go back down into the same negative spiral you do with messages.

It sounds like you were just incompatible with your friend. You seem to think your way is the 'right' way and his the 'wrong' way, when really you just have different expectations/attitudes.

I would probably hate to be friends with someone like you as I'd feel your lack of responding to me was rude and inconsiderate.. you'd feel my wanting to be responded to was rude and inconsiderate.

As this thread has shown, people seem to fall into 2 camps, the 'its rude to expect a reply' camp and the 'its rude not to reply' camp. I don't think either of us can say one is right or wrong ,IME it is equally infuriating to send a message to someone and never get a reply back, as it must be for people like you to get a chaser text or feel obliged to reply within a certain timeframe.

And to answer your third message, no the phone calls work a lot better thank you. Up to him whether to answer the phone of course but probably a much more meaningful exchange when we do. You make it sound like I shouldn't be phoning him because that's an imposition on him... that sounds a little OTT if I'm honest.

Indeed, it’s natural to have friendships with people who have compatible communication styles.

You say it is equally infuriating to send a message to someone and never get a reply back though, which seems an exaggeration as there’s a difference between someone replying when they want to, a week or two or four later, and never being replied to. Do you find it hard to sit with a non response as you’re always on edge wondering when it’ll come, or fearing it won’t?

My ex friend and I just weren’t compatible and it’s for the best we moved on, it seems like you and this friend have pretty incompatible styles/preferences too. I can’t see he’d have exploded like he did if this was the first time he felt you’d been pushy/rude or clingy. So I guess you have to decide whether you want to continue being friends and accept him as he is if you do, now you know that him not replying quickly doesn’t mean he is done with the friendship are you hoping to find a way to accept that about him or will you find a workaround so you still don’t have to have that gap where you reach out and have to sit with the time before he replies?

You make it sound like I shouldn't be phoning him because that's an imposition on him... that sounds a little OTT if I'm honest

I think at the minute with what’s happened it’d be smart to give each other a bit of breathing space and then see how the land lies in a couple of months or so. He’s feeling a bit put upon and even if his most recent communications have been kinder and more conciliatory he wouldn’t have exploded if he didn’t truly feel annoyed at the time (which, again, would suggest it was building for a while perhaps). So take heed and let him see you’ve heard what he’s saying, let him get in touch next time and arrange to meet/catch up or it’ll seem like you’ve not taken anything on board at all.

For sure, I'm not arranging any meeting up at the moment anyway. Not least because he's said he's really busy and I am a bit too at the mo.

Don't take this the wrong way but you do sometimes come across as though your way (being firmly in the 'rude to expect a reply' camp) is the only way and it is some heinous crime to expect someone to get back to you. I take on board that maybe I was too impatient and should have given it a bit longer before getting back in touch, but many posters on here have agreed that it's rude not to get back to someone after a few days so it's not like I'm the only person who thinks this. Please do bear in mind that it is equally annoying for some to be waiting on a friend getting back to them as you find it for people to be hassling you. Maybe there are people in your life who'd appreciate a swifter response from you sometimes, even though they may not say anything?

Your opening post says it’s mainly been you staying in touch.

the friendship was more balanced I could probably tolerate the odd non replied text a lot better. Its just when you are insecure in the friendship anyway (cos it's one sided) then these things become more loaded

And you say it’s not balanced. And then when he replied to your chasers you tried to take it further and make it more intense by suggesting you have a specific conversation about it over the phone.

It all sounds very intense from your side because you’re afraid if you don’t put the effort in you’ll lose him. But why are you afraid? If he doesn’t care as much about you as you do him why keep chasing and trying to make what sounds like a casual long-standing friendship into something closer and more intense than he’s comfortable with?

You’ve already identified you find it hard not being replied to right away because you fear he won’t reply at all and feel rejected, you seem to recognise those feelings are coming from inside you and not anything anyone else can cause or is causing. I don’t think you’re getting what you feel you need from this friendship. And the more you try and force it to take the shape you want it to the more you’ll push him away.

Why did you send chasers (two, within a week) though, whether it was within a few days or longer, instead of waiting and giving him the space to reply?

I don’t recall saying it’s a heinous crime... you’re more than welcome to ignore my responses and opinions but you did seek people’s thoughts on the situation.

So I guess you have to decide whether you want to continue being friends and accept him as he is if you do, now you know that him not replying quickly doesn’t mean he is done with the friendship are you hoping to find a way to accept that about him or will you find a workaround so you still don’t have to have that gap where you reach out and have to sit with the time before he replies

Now I have had the lovely message from him today reassuring me that he does value our friendship, then unless it's a subject matter that needs a swift response for practical reasons (eg I am going to be in your area on saturday are you free type of thing) then it is ok for him to take his time to respond. He's even given me a timeframe when it's ok to nudge him - he said if I've not heard back in 2 weeks then give him a nudge - so I'll work to that.