"there's nothing quite like prolonged periods of intimacy to kill off any desire for intimacy
I think justilou has nicely summarised the thread." Yep!
Mydogisthebest - I wasn't saying it was ALWAYS down to the men, nor that it was ALL younger men - there are always exceptions, I was clear about that too.
But I genuinely believe it often is - and while children do add stress to a relationship, they don't in and of themselves wreck relationships, it's the parents response to becoming parents that does that - and that can absolutely include mothers too, but again yes I believe mainly fathers - because what having children DOES often do is illuminate what those men are actually like to their wives/partners.
Also far too many men don't seem to "get" that having DC means you have to grow up, be responsible and prioritise someone other than yourself.
Very often on here (and again I've noted the same in real life) threads about lazy, useless fathers the op notes/admits there were at least hints before having DC of what they were like and that they didn't truly contribute equally to the relationship/home but op ignored/didn't fully register/naively thought fatherhood would improve them! Sometimes more than hints, sometimes blatant - I personally don't understand even getting together with a man like that let alone setting up home and having DC with them.
"Then the obvious point is, if being single and child free is oh-so-amazing, why don’t people do it!?" Do you understand how powerful cultural expectations are? Especially for women in a patriarchal society? Just look at how women who choose to be child free are often described/treated, look at the language around being a single woman and compare it to that used for single men, look at how child free men are described and treated, not to mention the financial differences for single men and women...
It's hugely discouraged to be a single and child free woman. Women are judged successful or not in life based not on career or academic achievements but on the basis of their relationships and family.
I've been single to all intents and purposes - certainly as far as my mother is concerned for 16 years, took about 10 years before she stopped banging on about "getting out there" again, and even then it's only very gradually reduced with her still making comments about how she worries about me being lonely etc certain friends (particularly male ones) especially in the first 5 years were constantly trying to get me to date friends of theirs, introducing me to single men etc - at no time did I EVER ask them to or say I was unhappy being single. They ASSUMED. I almost fell out with my mum and one particular friend over it because it was the FIRST thing they'd say to me whenever I saw them - infuriating and very boring as a topic of conversation.
I have as I've said dated occasionally, had one relationship that at one point had the potential to go further, had flings etc but I don't tell anyone because frankly they'd use the fact to just start banging on again about how awful it must be for me being single and they have the perfect person to introduce me to!
The only person that knows is dd as I'm always open with her and it could potentially impact her if a connection were likely to turn into a serious relationship, but she's only met one of them. She has never once worried about my single status or said she wishes I weren't. She liked that guy well enough but things ended before she knew him very well. Her only comments have ever been along the lines of "stay safe" when meeting new people eg old and asking how things are going in an interested, caring way.
"People massively overestimate the positive impact things they want will have on this 'base' level of happiness." Totally agree with this.
"I think Graphista was spot on with her posts." Thank you - worth noting I think too that 3 of the best fathers/husbands I know don't actually have biological children of their own but are amazing stepfathers who've been in their stepchildren's lives since they were babies/toddlers and massively stepped up where in 2 of the cases the biological fathers were bloody useless! The 3rd the biological father is also ace, but the "original" couple had married very young (under 21) and had grown apart, deciding to divorce as there was no longer a romantic connection, but they remain good friends and co-parents.
And yes - me too! Exh shagging colleague (who was supposedly also my friend - ha!) who was significantly younger, when she fell pregnant as a result and he was told (few weeks after I'd kicked him out for said affair) he fell to pieces!
Tried to make her abort, tried to get ME to sympathise and persuade her to abort! Kept saying to anyone who would listen that the whole point of being with someone "young and fun" was NOT having the responsibility and grind that is having a family - they are now married (which he avoided for as long as possible - telling her it was ME dragging out the divorce when actually it was HIM sitting on paperwork - soon as I realised I gave her proof that wasn't the case) have 5 kids (I'm fairly certain eldest was due to her telling him she was on contraception when she wasn't BUT then more fool him for A shagging her in the first place and B not using a bloody condom - and so risking MY sexual health also), and I have it on pretty good authority BOTH are utterly miserable but won't split for a variety of reasons.
There have been points over the years where he's actually told me (and I've heard even told her) point blank that he regrets cheating and us splitting up, but what's done is done.
I think he would have been better off not being a father, he's not suited to it at all. Much discussion on this thread about women's decisions to have DC or not - what about mens choices? Nobody's forcing them to have DC, most of the deadbeats I know in real life and very often on here the children were very much planned, as was my dd and his youngest 4! Sometimes even fertility treatment is involved so fatherhood wasn't forced on them!
Maybe we should be asking why men who don't really want to be fathers are procreating.