If you are married/a parent, help me take off the rose tinted glasses about it? (I’m single and sad about it!)

[TrafficJamz]

After some absolutely wonderful advice from lovely mumsnetters about being single and really wanting children...I thought this thread may be a dose of reality.

I will always want kids more than anything and the whole DH set up, but in the meantime, tell me the downsides so I can appreciate where I am in life?!

:)

Me and DH don't have children but literally all our friends that do are divorced and they just about all say having children was the cause.

Over the years many women and men have told me that they love their children but if they could go back in time they would choose not to have any

I have found marriage, work, health and relationships in general very difficult since having DC.

If you want DC and your age and/or fertility is an issue, would consider going it alone.

“in my imaginary world of a family I always think I would love to pack my DH’s things!!”

Think this is an odd attitude, and unhealthy! Unless your DH would do the same for you.

I’m childfree so can’t speak for the drudgery of child rearing but every parent I encounter and every thread I read and ScaryMommy anonymous confessions page make it sound like absolute hell, more importantly, there are almost eight billion humans, and 400,000 more born each day, earth over shoot Day was this week, meaning we have already consumed a years worth of the planets resources and it’s only month 7 of the year. The Uk soil has enough nutrients left for 60 years of crops, there will have to be a new way of providing food and fresh water for the massive horde, by 2050 most of the Middle East and Mediterranean will be uninhabitable for humans, there will be millions of climate refugees. (All this is from Guardian articles from the last couple of years). Climate change is ‘catastrophic, unprecedented and unstoppable’, overpopulation is the cause of all of these problems, and adding more consumers to suffer the imminent hell scape future will only worsen it.

(Also, is this the same poster who posts the same topic a few times a week? Unsure what answers you want to hear from the same thread over and over and over and over 🙄)

How old are you?

Because to be honest MN has always been a bit ‘grass is greener’ with this. The whole ‘Yay, you can starfish and watch what you want on telly and being single is GREAT’ wears thin.

I’m married with two children. I’m happy generally but there is a trade off. Having people in your life that you love can be quite burdensome and sharing your house with others can be exhausting. Sometimes I fantasise about coming home to an empty house. I’m happier than I’ve ever been but I’m completely exhausted

I think an important one is that people you love a lot at one point can change a great deal and not always for the better. Many a person on here has thrown themselves full on into marriage and kids and given it their all only to be extremely let down or deceived along the way and it’s much harder to do something about it without causing a great deal of upset and hassle when homes, kids, livelihoods etc are involved .

Mydogisthebest - quite honestly I don't think it's having children that's the problem - although I also have several child free by choice friends and relatives which I absolutely respect as their choice - but for those of us who do want to be parents I genuinely feel the reason why so many marriages/ltr are failing in the aftermath of having DC now is because men under a certain age are supremely selfish, shitty husbands/partners and fathers!

There is of course much to criticise of older generations too, but men now seem to think they are ENTITLED to all the benefits of marriage/ltr and possibly children too BUT they're unwilling to accept the disadvantages!

While in the older generations responsibilities and duties may have been divided along gender defined lines, those men didn't do NOTHING Except maybe working in a paid job. They pulled their weight in their own way but they DID pull their weight.

Now I read frequently on here AND hear of in real life from my friends and relatives who are partnered with the younger generations of men how these men expect to ONLY work full time, doing NOTHING at home (not even "traditionally male" duties from heavy household chores to managing household admin and finances) don't participate in family life (another thread I'm on at the moment yet ANOTHER "d"h who refuses to spend time with his family, instead spending most of his leisure time doing his hobby and expecting his wife and family to organise THEIR lives and activities around said hobby).

The women are doing ALL the housework, ALL the admin and financial management, the vast majority of if not ALL the mental load of the family, ALL the childcare (perhaps except if they work outside the home at all - which isn't really a break as they're you know WORKING) and then being made to feel guilty if they DARE to gain weight, "let themselves go" or otherwise struggle to be an always presentable sexually available being - at which point the fucker cheats, tries to blame her, Sod's off with the majority of the money and possibly all assets too and then dodge paying cm in any way possible!

At which point I'm sure I'll get "namalt" "well if these women choose such lazy arses..." "Women aren't perfect either" "you're just a bitter old hag who nobody wants..."

Some of which may PARTLY be true, but generally I think I'm right!

It's great there's no longer a stigma to being an "unwed mother" but I feel the backlash to that has been the disappearance of it being socially unacceptable for a man not to support his family.

I also consider myself a feminist but feel many women have fallen into the trap of "doing it all" rather than "having it all" we can really only "have it all" and I include true equality in that if the men step up and quit shirking their responsibilities.

From talking to my friends/relatives who would ordinarily be more likely to date younger guys, quite a few are choosing to date older BECAUSE they are more likely to have that "old fashioned" sense of responsibility towards their wife/family.

For the record in the whole time I've been single I certainly haven't been a "bitter old hag nobody wants", but omg when I got back on the dating scene...it's really slim pickings out there. The one relationship I had where he WAS a decent guy (I'm bisexual but only recently out) unfortunately could go nowhere as we met in our early 30's and he wanted to have more DC (he already had 1 from a previous relationship - teen pregnancy they drifted apart due to maturing and changing - he had 50/50 residency and paid decent cm way over and above what csa would have expected and paid a little towards her rent too) and I unfortunately cannot have any more so something of a stalemate, nobody's "fault".

The amount of men who were expecting that me being a single mum meant I would be happy and willing to do their share of childcare of DC from previous relationships, from crazy early on such that I felt they were less looking for a girlfriend than a free au pair they could shag! Who didn't treat their ex's with any kind of respect - frequently including viciously slagging her off on our first dates! Saw their DC as a burden and childcare "boring" and begrudged paying ANY cm at all (IF they paid at all "why should I pay for her to live the life of Riley? That's MY money I earned" actually no it's money you owe your CHILDREN so they can do wildly extravagant things like...eating! Twats!)

And yes there is of course an element of "the good guys are all taken" as some of my friends and relatives have/are good decent husbands and fathers - but they are DEFINITELY in the minority.

This is actually bringing to mind seeing Chris Rock (and yes I know he has his faults too and admittedly this was likely while he was still married) on Oprah once talking about such attitudes with a certain type of man giving it the attitude of deserving credit JUST because they see their kids eow and pay cm "hey! I take care of for MY kids"

Indeed I've found a clip he did:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B0B_ekSrsEk

Iirc he went into more depth about it on Oprah.

Graphista
Epic rant there and you are so right! It's tragic.

I love my kids op and I hope you get the family you want.

But I can honestly say I am very often incredibly stressed and anxious about life as a parent. And being married...which o wanted so much..is fucking hard work. Being with the same person all the time is draining and difficult even when you really love them

Sometimes I miss my freedom... particularly from the kids..so much it makes my heart hurt. No summer evenings just sitting in the pub...under house arrest every evening.

The other day my younger colleagues all went out for a drink and I felt so gutted to be going home again for kids bath bed ...then stuck indoors on a beautiful evening. And they require your care like this for years. It's not just when they are babies.

If you imagine that you will have your family one day...take every bit of freedom you can now and do everything you can dream of.

Do you like being able to buy what you want, when you want and not having to consider anyone else's needs or wants when it comes to your pay? Don't have either a DH or kids.

Do you like being able to just go somewhere at a moments notice? Don't have kids.

Do you like being able to watch whatever you want whenever you want? Don't have a DH or kids (I'm on viewing number 57 of How to Train your Dragon in one week).

Honestly, if DH and I ever get divorced I would quite happily just stay single for the rest of my life. I'd just have the odd one night stand if I fancied it but I would never again have a relationship.

I live alone waterrat

How much sitting in pub beer gardens do you think I do?

No money ever. No haircuts, no posh coffees, no nothing. I feel bad if I spend a frivolous pound in a charity shop. We just have so many expenses and my child hasn't had some things like swimming lessons or piano that I had the advantage of. I wrecked a laundry load of clothing last week thanks to a moment of stupidity and nearly cried.

Having a child with additional needs took years off me. I take care of myself as best I can but still look prematurely middle aged.

When she is finally asleep, I get the fun of stressing about what the hell will happen to her when I die.

I am quite old and sour in outlook and I'm not even 35 yet.

I love my husband but I don't think either of us are really "us" any more... just getting through the grind. He is working at a job he detests, and which doesn't use his talents, to keep this roof over our heads. We share a lot of literature and films, but we don't have time or energy for these.

I’ve cooked a lovely Sunday roast.
Kid number one won’t touch it because he can see pepper in his mash.
Kid number two won’t eat it because it’s not pizza.

The fighting. The bickering. The screaming. The noise. The non stop talking. The shouting. The mess. It is constant, continuous and never ending.
It gets so bad I want to get in my car and just drive away.

My house was lovingly renovated over the course of 3 years. We renovated from the floor boards to the ceilings of every room.
We are now having to do it all again as it is almost entirely wrecked by my kids.
Carpets replaced numerous times, chunks out of walls/skirting boards/kitchen cabinets.
Walls marked despite the expensive “washable paint” used.

The bone drenching utter utter exhaustion cannot be explained or described.
After surviving on 2-3 hours sleep a night, full time work, running a home until my kid eventually slept a full night through aged 5 and at school, you still could have no idea how it feels.

I had to give up my job, my hard earned career after 23 years, getting to the top of my game because I could not afford the crippling child care costs .

I cannot begin to explain to you the feeling when they are ill...which they are..a lot! The frantic, bubbling under the surface abstract terror that you may loose them. It is like your body and soul is being crushed and the light is being ripped from your life.
Kids die, you read about it, see it on the news, the threat is there. The thought is the most horrifying blackest thought you will ever ever let into your mind.

This can all be eased by a good partner. Luckily I have a fantastic partner who shares all of the above. If you don’t... it doesn’t bear thinking about.

OP, my take is a bit different, as I’m childfree by choice. My two sisters each have a child with severe disabilities and, while I utterly love my nephews, seeing the impact that’s had on my sisters, and their relationships, has made me decide not to roll that particular dice.

I love not having children. I live in the centre of a large city, in a two bedroom apartment that wouldn’t be suitable for a child. I’m a bit of a cliche when it comes to being childfree- I have a lot of disposable income, eat out constantly, regularly go to the cinema/theatre/pub, and travel a lot. It’s a fab life, and not one I’d give up by choice.

"Graphista
Epic rant there and you are so right! It's tragic."

It's so frustrating and infuriating! Not only the MANY threads on here describing these useless, lazy, selfish men but posts on social media by friends/family and hearing things in real life.

The social media stuff is very much men being given huge amounts of credit JUST for being basic, decent husbands and fathers and doing shit WOMEN do all the time and get fuck all even ACKNOWLEDGEMENT of let alone CREDIT!

"I'm on viewing number 57 of How to Train your Dragon in one week" OMG yes! At one point I could quite easily have recited the entire fucking scripts of ALL the high school musicals! I FUCKING HATE Disney at the best of times but that insipid vacuous crap? Argh!

"Honestly, if DH and I ever get divorced I would quite happily just stay single for the rest of my life. I'd just have the odd one night stand if I fancied it but I would never again have a relationship." I discovered the joy of fwb arrangements - sex & company when I want, peace when I don't!

"I cannot begin to explain to you the feeling when they are ill...which they are..a lot! The frantic, bubbling under the surface abstract terror that you may loose them. It is like your body and soul is being crushed and the light is being ripped from your life.
Kids die, you read about it, see it on the news, the threat is there. The thought is the most horrifying blackest thought you will ever ever let into your mind."
Omg yes! And I'm lucky in that dd isn't particularly or obviously disabled/unwell! Not compared to many on here!

But...

We both almost died at her birth, she had to be in scbu initially and I just basically didn't breathe/start to relax until she was discharged.

Throughout her early childhood there were MANY (at that time we didn't know reason for much of it) injuries and odd excessive responses to infections and battles to get her to take medicines etc

You have NO IDEA how hard it is to get a wrestling 1 year old to allow you to put a spacer over their face to get essential life saving meds into their lungs!

Twice before her diagnosis she ended up in hospital because she can't fight off infection in certain parts of her body the same way other people can, one of those times almost resulted in her losing sight in one eye.

Even AFTER the diagnosis so dre GP's and other Drs where it doesn't come under their specialism know much if anything about her condition and so we are constantly being fobbed off as if we are overreacting - yet it's known by those WITH knowledge of the condition (and we do TRY and explain to Drs - but hey what could I POSSIBLY know as a mere mother! Despite living with her all her life, seeing and knowing how she reacts to certain things, AND doing a fuckton of research of my own) that it can and does affect her entire body and makes her especially vulnerable to certain conditions and infections.

As she gets older she faces potentially massive issues with fertility, pregnancy, ageing... Up to and including severe spd from very early in pregnancy from which she may never recover, needing joints replaced quite possibly several times probably starting in her 30's, lung dysfunction and enlarged heart!

So yes I worry sick about her ALL the time.

Fucking snoring, omg I could put a pillow over his face some nights it's awful. Plus the shit sport on TV whenever he is home, golf, squash, football anything at all.. Having to have sex, I'm overweight and struggling with anxiety but feel like I should still make an effort when all I want to do is read a book and go to sleep!

Kids: it's the summer holidays and I need to entertain them for another 5 weeks! The daily struggle to keep my 10 year old off of the Xbox for hours. Lack of lie ins. I have no family around so I can't do much in the evenings because my husband works for himself and can't be relied on to get home in time. If I'm unwell I have to suck it up again because dh has to work. The mess, the washing, the ironing and then when it's down I have to start all over again!

I'm feeling the same as OP and have thoroughly appreciated this dose of reality!
Is there anything we can do now to prepare ourselves?!

Never coming home or getting up to a fully tidy house, regardless of how you left it.

Always having more domestic responsibilities that you partner/DH/young adult kids.

The sheer amount of financial support required by children as they grow (and grow up).

I’ve willingly spent a rainy Saturday in soft play.
If you want to feel better about your stage of life I recommend a visit, you can walk in, witness horror then happily walk out.

I'm currently spiralling into a meltdown merely because our ONLY OPTION for watching our kids FORGOT they were babysitting and double booked their weekend (a family member, just for clarity), meaning we can't attend a very important event for a friend. I am so angry and fed up and over being so isolated and unable to do things purely because we 'dont have a village'. Reality and rationality haven't hit me yet because this is the result of 5 years of having no help. Our only other option is $300AU for a babysitter, tag teaming the event with my husband or only one of us going. FML

The idea of there being 'a village' to raise a child is definitely a pile of arse.

I don’t have kids but I’ve had live-in relationships, including one with an older guy who had kids. I spent the day yesterday with a friend and their spouse and child and parenting looked to me like a relentless game of tag with no let-up and lots of mess. I can honestly, hand-on-heart, that I have never been happier since I started living alone and embraced the idea of possibly being single forever. There’s nothing wrong with that