DH who always seems to be ‘in charge’

[checkedcloth]

I’d really welcome some advice. I’d first like to say that’s DH is absolutely not controlling in an abusive sense. This is an issue that I have with him and I’d welcome advice and thoughts on how I can work with him to make it better.

Essentially DH always seems to have the final say on our decisions as a family, whether they are big ones (to move house or not) through to small ones around taking the kids out for a meal. (Dcs are 9 and 7).

I always feel like I’m asking permission for us to do stuff, I feel like I’m the child and feel nervous. For example I wouldn’t dream of saying ‘thought we’d eat our tonight’. I suppose DH doesn’t respond very positively and so in turn I feel nervous suggesting stuff.

Today we received an invite for a weekend away in August that sounds lovely and the DCs would love it. It’s not straight forward to just say yes, I’ll admit that, but we could go as long as we sort a few things out with work etc.

DH was just so negative about it. It was all the reasons why we couldn’t. I found myself asking ‘is it a no then?’ To which he said probably. I just feel like I’m not an equal and we don’t discuss these things like adults.

I’ve brought this up on a few occasions. He makes light of it and says I’m making a big thing If it. But yet I can’t shake this feeling. I’m tired of feeling like I’m a teenager and I’m asking my mum and dad If I can go out!

We are financially comfortable, these things are all affordable to us. We both work full time with me in a more stressful role so it’s not about him being exhausted.

How do I turn this around? It’s slowly starting to eat at me and make me question my marriage.

Stop being so bloody submissive to him. Tell him that you think it sounds like a lovely weekend so you and the children will be going. Tell him that if he wishes to join you then he will be welcome. If he doesn't then he can stay at home, see his own friends etc., whatever floats his boat.

Not being funny but a relationship is compromise, you really want to go, he should consider going because you want to...

How would it be if you wanted to cut back at work and him feel the financial consequences?

You probably want him to come too as DCs are probably easier to watch if there's 2 of you.
Have you looked at getting an au pair then you owe him nothing and him having weekends with the boys are just that and not a reward for the 'childminding' he does.

My STBXH was like this. He wasn’t as successful as me at work and would be very uncompromising at home. He would change the music in my car because it was apparently crap. He’d disagree with my decorating choices so nothing would ever get done because my ideas would be ‘overruled’. It felt like he disagreed with my opinions for the sake of it / to feel superior. I started doing stuff with kids myself which he didn’t mind he just had his hobbies and interests but wouldn’t accommodate mine. Standing up for myself would just lead to constant bickering - or me being dismissed as oversensitive / all in my head etc. I don’t miss living like that at all and I have managed to juggle the kids and work without him so he wasn’t so indispensable. I feel free and like me again. If you feel relieved when he’s away or feel he’s treating you with contempt then the relationship is over IMO. For various reasons relating to the children i put up with it for too long but now I absolutely love having my house to myself. It’s only now I’m away from him I realise how selfish a person he'd become I’m sure a lot of it comes from him being a bit useless in the workplace and feeling the need for some sort of status at home. He didn’t start out like this when we were young and both equal at work but then I did better than him and the dynamic at home changed. I think he was also depressed at times and struggled with juggling kids and work and resented how little time he had for himself / his hobbies (which were always more important to him than mine were to me). Me and kids would be walking on eggshells at times and it got worse as he got older. It is abuse - subtle but undermining all the same. Start doing stuff yourself it’s empowering. Stop putting yourself last. I’ve wasted too much of my life doing that.

I have found myself slipping into this pattern with DH. Simply because I’m just not an assertive person but it’s something you can work on. He’s also the sensible one and makes reasonable decisions whereas I’m quite impulsive and will spend money without thinking. I tend to be the ones who comes up with fun ideas and then he’s the realist who will say no.

The fact is though that you’re not happy with this set up and feel like you don’t have a say in anything.

You need to assert yourself more, tell him instead of ask him. Insist on being involved with family decision making and if he have an opinion on something don’t let him override that.

Part of it is you handing him the power, by saying things like "it's a no then?" You give him 100% control over that decision.

Are you generally "submissive"(for want of a better word) or just with him?

I rely on him around pick ups and drop offs and organising the kids. I’d be stuffed and not able to do my job without that. That makes me feel like I’m Not an equal really.

Can you imagine a man saying that he doesn't feel like an equal because he's working so his wife does the school runs?

I’m not sure what he’d say If I went on my own with the DCs - I think he’d laugh and assume I was making it up

Then he needs to begin learning that you aren't. For this upcoming weekend, say that you've thought about it, the kids would love it, you want to go and there is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't, so you're going: it's up to him whether he wants to come or not but he must decide by whatever deadline you need. And then go.

By way of preparation, start making some other decisions, e.g. that you're going to go out for a meal at the weekend, and again make it happen. Both of you need to get used to the fact that you are equal partners in this relationship.

I’m not sure what he’d say If I went on my own with the DCs - I think he’d laugh and assume I was making it up

This is like a (unsupportive) parent mocking a child. Interesting dynamic.

The way to break it, is to start making those decisions without his approval. Make the arrangements, make it happen. Be competent in your own life, not just at work. You are, you know, you're just somehow undermined by him.

If you feel oddly grateful/indebted for him doing the very normal parenting jobs and pick ups, you need to sit down and unpack why. Would he feel the same if positions were reversed? (I'm betting noooo. So what, it's because vagina?)

And if you can't get out of the mindset, put something else in place. Or rather, set up alternatives you can use if needs be, so you feel confident you have options and are not dependent on him.

I could have written your post OP. I'm currently waiting on his decision about a holiday with friends but rather than just let me know he likes to keep me hanging on and chasing the answer for him to then tell me to stop nagging and that he works so hard that he's had no time to think about it.

I can't even choose bedding or put a picture up without it bring wrong.

@wichitalinemanswoman

Can you leave? He sounds controlling and abusive

If he does the childcare arrangements and ‘controls’ the diary this can put you on the back foot, not knowing what the family is doing or his availability. This can mean you effectively ask for permission to do something because he knows the answer. I’ll ask dh because I know he doesn’t always put stuff in our shared diary but if he said no there would have to be a very good reason, like no Ive booked us a weekend away already!

Is it happening because you feel you need to do everything together?

He doesn't want to go to this thing and you do. There's nothing wrong with him not wanting to go, but there would be something wrong if he stopped you going. What would happen if you just took the kids by yourself?

Re meals out - if he wants to go somewhere and you don't, isn't it ok for him to take the kids and you stay home (if you don't want to go)? Or if you want to eat out and he doesn't, you take the kids out and he stays home?

You say you feel nervous in suggesting stuff - is that because he's so negative, or does he get angry or sulk etc?

Would he stop you organising a weekend away with friends? Or have you just never tried?

@wichitalinemanswoman WTF are you with this man?
RUN AWAY!!!!

I also would run a mile from this man. He is being abusive and controlling. Sometimes it takes distance to appreciate this

Omg I recognise a lot of what your saying. You feel as if you have to ask permission to do things and constantly walk on egg shells, like your a passenger in your own life.
How ever you look at things the relationship is unbalanced, he has all the control and well you don't. How ever you got to the situation, when your not equal partners abuse is all to to easy. How's the finances set up? Does he control this at all?

I think to have any understanding of this we need to know how you came to be submissive with him and if you are with other people. Do you feel he has brow-beaten you down? Have you always found it hard? It may be that he knows he can manipulate you into capitulating and is selfish or it may be that he thinks you genuinely don't know, aren't fussed, and he's stepping in to get stuff done in a 'fix-it' kind of way.
When presented with negatives have you always just given in or did you used to present him with the positives or possible solutions?

OP I would highly recommend the following book to you: “The Man’s Guide to Women” by John and Julie Gottman both ph.d professors of psychology. The authors have spent decades studying marriage and what makes a successful marriage and what causes divorce. This book is a result of years of research. I found it a fascinating read and very accurate.

Their premise as a result of their research is that the number one factor that women look for in men is trustworthiness. There is the obvious loyalty and lack of cheating and lying involved but it runs much deeper than that. A man who is trustworthy is someone you trust with your whole self and your feelings. A trustworthy man listens to his wife, respects her feelings and behaves in ways that make a women feel safe and that he truly cares about her. It seems to me you don’t find your husband trustworthy. You can’t trust him with your deepest feelings and you feel insecure and sad. I think reading this book will enlighten you as to why you are feeling the way you do, due to what women want and crave due to evolution and biology as much as psychology.

Right at the beginning of the book the Gottman tell men that they may be surprised to hear that they are the ones that are most responsible for unhappy or happy marriages. They have found men’s behaviour to be a much greater predictor to whether the marriage is happy or not.

You can read some of the book online

www.amazon.com/Mans-Guide-Women-Scientifically-Secrets/dp/1623361842/ref=sr_1_6?s=gateway&crid=3G4EBQIET7KD1&keywords=john+gottman&sprefix=John+Gottman%2Caps%2C206&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1564085465&sr=8-6

OP, I haven't read the full thread but has anyone suggested that you get in touch with women's aid? I didn't think I was being abused. Bloody hell I laughed at the idea! I am now 5 months out of an abusive relationship and my god, on paper it's awful. I was abused without even knowing it, quite severely. In not saying that this is the case with you, but it's an example of how it's not always easy to see when you're in the midst of it...

OP....I could have written your first post almost word for word, even down to not deciding whether wr eat out. It took me many years to realise but it is abusive behaviour, it's not normal and it's not okay. I finally left. 4 years later and I still get a thrill from doing the weekly shop by myself, deciding that we're going to eat out tonight, not explaining my every move. I haven't read the full thread so apologies if I way behind but your original post really touched a nerve.

@LikeARedBalloon I am 5 months out of a similar controlling and abusive relationship and I know the feeling well. Yes, I'm always looking over my shoulder but my god the feeling of freedom is one I shall treasure my whole life.

I'm another in the don't ask, tell him camp.
Anything to break this pattern.
I would absolutely arrange to go with your DC, and say let me know by X if you plan to come as well.
He cannot continue having everything his own way, it's making you miserable.

Other posters have come up with other excellent suggestions for you about the dynamics of your relationship, so I'll leave it at that.
Go , and have a great time.

@hereforit That feeling is the best. It catches me every now and again when I'm doing something quite mundane and reminds how lucky I am to feel so content with my life now