I called DP's counselling bollocks

[MyMumisMarv]

I hope I don't appear unsympathetic to depression - I'm open to being completely wrong and learning something.

Also, I've been depressed and anxious myself and had treatment and I understand everyone is different, but for some reason I am feeling more frustration and scepticism with my partner.

Background: my DP of five years lost his business a couple of months ago and has had to go bankrupt. Horrible experience, not least because much of it was due to his mismanagement and covering up of finances. Since then, he's yet to find work (he could have had a couple of basic jobs by now) and he's been missing job interviews and lying about it. He's been relying on the support of me and his parents. He's been lying about other things too - a bad habit that I've caught him doing frequently during our relationship.

A couple of weeks ago, I told him to move out. He did for a few days. He came back when we sorted things out. He wanted to go back to a counsellor he saw before we met who apparently helped him with his lying.

We were talking about how he's doing last night. I picked up on the fact they don't seem to be addressing his lying problem (the reason we're here) but they are just talking about his grieving process from losing his business.

He said that's because of his depression, which came as a surprise to me as although I've known it has been stressful, on a day to day basis he has seemed fine, not depressed.

He said its holding him back in getting a job, yet won't go to the doctors for medication to improve this.

He said he and his counsellor think he has been bottling up his feelings about what has happened and its all tangles up in a web of very low self worth and self loathing and a myriad of emotions that he is too afraid to feel because he doesn't want to 'hold the mirror up to himself' .

He said he isn't ready to 'open that door yet' and he doesn't feel he will be able to move past everything until he does. He said he's just too scared to deal with his feelings.

I understand why he would feel depressed and that there has been a lot of stress and he's had a huge knock to his confidence, but I don't understand much of what he was talking about or what it has to do with the price of butter.

At the end of the conversation, we hugged and he thanked me for trying to understand and not forcing him to 'face his fears' when he's not ready to.

That just felt a bit too dramatic for me and at that point I just said oh come off it! This is bollocks. I get why you feel shit but what's there to face? You need to get a job so you're going to have to.

He told me I had handled it very wrongly, what I said was deeply unfair and unfeeling and 'shaming' and made him feel like I just thought he was being stupid and weak.

I guess I just don't understand the language he's used? It just feels like excuses to not get a job and for why he's been lying. Maybe it's because I ve been losing respect for him because of his lying so Im not treating him as gently as I should?

Am I being unsympathetic? I'm happy to be flamed if I deserve it

You were unsympathetic, yes, but it reflects the fact you’ve had enough I guess.

The ‘I can’t face my fears yet’ translates as ‘I’m going to keep lying when I’m depressed and won’t get a job yet either’.

It sounds like he is trying but isn’t willing to make changes.

The thing to do is focus on what you can do to stop feeling so resentful. Maybe that means you don’t support him financially any more and maybe it means he moves out again.

A lot of 'counsellors' are useless, because it's a fairly hit-and-miss thing and, more importantly, unregulated: anyone can call themselves a counsellor and charge for talking bollocks to self-obsessed wingnuts like your P.
You'd be a lot better off ending the relationship for good as this man is clearly happy to sit around whining and playing the victim card for the rest of his life.

YABU to call his counselling bollocks. The counsellor will be encouraging him to explore the things he's scared of, so he can move past them, but it takes time.

I do understand your frustration if you're supporting him financially, but the thing that jumps out for me in your post is that you don't seem to trust him or believe his struggles are genuine. Do you think there is a real underlying issue that has caused all of this, or do you think he's lazy or taking the piss? What has his previous behaviour been like?

It sounds like you've reached the end of your tether and were hoping he would start to improve be an equal partner but he isn't....and doesn't seem particularly motivated to do that either. The reality is that you cannot force him to engage in treatment or to be a productive adult within the house. You can, however, decide that you are no longer willing to carry an adult who will not help themselves. It may simply be too much stress for you. My DH has done similar and the sheer level of selfishness has been staggering. He was happy to have endless unpaid time off work whilst I struggled to pay the bills and work myself in to the ground. It was all about him the face I was breaking trying to support all of is didnt seem to factor in. Could you ask him to move out again and get some space to decide what you want?

He’s taking the piss. Get rid.

@sakura7 - it just feels like there's always an excuse not to do what he needs to do (and always has been) Now he can't effectively get a job or tell the truth because he's scared to face feelings. I just think, just face them and get it over with if that's what you need to do.

I am doubting his struggle I suppose. It sounded like more fluff than substance, more bollocks? I understand the words, but what do they actually mean? I understand their meaning in the context of a deeply traumatic event you've been burying for years, but not here. But maybe that's my ignorance

@blackcat86 how has that turned out?

I had an ex like this. He just floated around expecting me to support him, almost indulging in his own wallowing. Really frustrating as he held down a decent job for a number of years before we met. He lied about absolutely everything and if ever you questioned him he’d get quite angry and say you were attacking him.

I figured he probably was depressed, but I couldn’t deal with the constant lies. It was about big and little things. Like he’s lie about why he was late even when the truth was perfectly acceptable.

I don’t know what the solution is, but he clearly doesn’t consider this an issue which is a worry in itself.

The counseling doesn't sound like bollocks at all, it sounds like the normal stuff you'd explore in counseling. A counselors not just going to tell him to get a job, anyone can do that.

But it seems like you've had enough. You should take responsibility for setting your own boundaries. Why did you take him back, when it doesn't sound like the issues have been 'sorted' at all?

It reads as though he’s finally suffered the consequences of his behaviour - lying and financial mismanagement - and doesn’t like it. The reasons for his behaviour might well be influenced by depression but that doesn’t give him a free pass to do whatever he wants without consequences. Depression might be a reason, not an excuse.

He’s told you that he isn’t up to being a responsible adult. That’s his decision. Your decision is whether you can accept that in a relationship and if so, what form that relationship will take. Will you support him financially for the rest of your life? Will you live together? These are decisions only you can make.

I would say fluctuating? It all came to ahead when I had a very traumatic birth and I dolled out some home truths. We've also started couples counselling. Things get better for a bit but as soon as I'm unwell or expect anything from him he slides back in to old habits. I had a virus and chest infection last week so for one evening he actually had to put DD to bed. This week he's complaining of stress and has got himself signed off work. Then he's moaning to the doctor about the stress of being the breadwinner (now I'm part time we actually earn the same amount). I meant my marriage vows when I took them but I'm not convinced it will last. Interestingly DHs mum is very similar? What are your partners family like?

Is that an NHS counsellor? When I saw one she was very clear it was to givee techniques on how to deal with feeling down - a very constructive manner. It was 4 sessions and definitely there was no space for much navel gazing.

He'll be even more depressed when you've had enough and leave. That will be the excuse for him to do even less. He has a good gig, 'depression' removes all responsibility for anything.

I've found that quite a few people who are having counselling for anxiety/depression use it as their excuse not to work/look for work.

I've experienced it with friends and they have a proper 'woe is me' complex. It's so bizarre.

Those who don't work make out that their struggles are much worse than those of us who do work, because they 'couldn't possibly'.

We all know this is bs but they convince themselves.

You were blunt but sometimes it needs to be said. You've got bills to pay. He needs to help with that.

I don't see why seeing a counselor and looking for a job are incompatible. It sounds like he thinks they are so I get your frustration. He needs to reconcile dealing with his emotions and the day to day responsibilities of being an adult with a family. CBT is pretty good for this.

You could be honest and tell him that you want to be supportive, but you feel like he's always making excuses. If he says he has depression, he needs to do something about it and go to the doctor. If he refuses, ask him to move out again.

Some counsellors shouldn't be let loose on vulnerable people I, and various friends, have had horrendously bad advice from counsellors. One friend who was very stressed by her husband's infidelity agreed to a joint session with the husband's counsellor. Counsellor tried and tried and tried to persuade her to sign herself in voluntarily to a mental hospital 'for a rest and to recover'! Her friends all pointed out to her that her husband wanted to take their three boys, and an apparent history of mental illness would be a great help to him in a court case. That was a really extreme example, but counsellors are human and often get sucked in by the client's skewed view of a relationship.

@monkeytrap yes! Lies about things when I wouldn't have minded the truth - and he's built up a narrative about how ld react and I don't know where he gets those ideas from

@porpises a counsellor wouldn't tell him to get a job but a counsellor might figure out the lying if that's what you went for

@blackcat86 they are very flowery and emotional - long heartfelt messages of love after every visit. The DM definitely has similarities she has confessed she has many regrets because she never had the guts to

His parents have apparently told him they are so haply for him that he was offered a job last week but don't mind the fact he's reluctant to take it as they just want him to be happy

@DrinkFeckArseGirls no, a private counsellor, all the time in the world

Thanks to everyone else whose replied if I haven't answered you direct

Is. He paying for the therapy? Something along the lines of psychodynamic?
Some counselling involves a lot more inward gazing, not pushing yourself too hard, accepting pour boundaries until you're ready to confront them etc.

NHS counselling, which is limited to X sessions, is more CBT and okhow do we get from here to here in a few months to get you functional.

Both have their place but sounds like your DP needs something more constructive and directive unless there's a trauma he's withholding

If you think it would be genuinely helpful, you could talk to his counsellor and try and gain some understanding about the journey he’s going on... if you think you can conjure up enough patience and empathy left to be with him whilst he’s on this journey (which may or may not work, whether your partner engages with the process and how good the therapist is!).

But whether it’s the right thing for you to engage with this whole counselling journey thing? Basically depends how much relationship rope there is left to burn?

To put it into context: I have ptsd that I am now getting treated. It’s a tough journey but I’m really committed to it because I want to change, in fact, I am desperate to change and am prepared to put in the hard work between sessions, and go through some pretty upsetting stuff to get my brain to process these traumatic events properly.

So I’m going through a pretty tough journey right now but I can see that it’s actually working, there is light at the end of the tunnel. Obviously I’m doing quite a specialist type of therapy but my point was more about the different attitudes and relationships people can have with the therapy/ counselling they are doing.

And there is a difference between engaging very actively with counselling, and sitting there saying I’m too fragile and precious to possibly be asked to address my issues and that everyone must understand that I can’t be asked to acknowledge my responsibilities! That’s quite a different um, approach, to mental health and a commitment to healing, isn’t it?

Counseling can be used by some as a way of being quite self indulgent and as a way of not moving on. It’s sometimes tricky to work out what’s going on though, as that’s a minority, not the usual way people behave. For the most part people really want to gain some kind of insight or progress...

Fuck that.

🗑

He's only going to counselling because he wants to be seen by you as getting help.....help that he doesn't actually want. People usually only go to counsellors when they hit the point of being ready to face their fears, so to be honest he's just flapping his lips with no intention of changing. And you called him on it, hence he was not happy.

I dunno OP, sounds like there is no change on the horizon and he's just saying he's depressed to buy time. He needs to shit on the pot or get off, don't pander to him or he will milk it big time.

I agree with WellThisIsShit. Where is this counselling leading - to make a change, or to make excuses for not changing?

It is a process and I wouldn't expect anyone to bounce out of their first counselling session with a plan for their new life. But they have to want to move forward, not use this as to validate their failure to make an effort and a stick to beat you with for being insufficiently "understanding".

I’m with you, I find all that flowery emotional dramatic language sometimes used around therapy a bit much. I just comes across really self indulgent to me.

This situation would irritate the crap out of me. Yep explore your feelings, happy days. But you still need to get a job whilst doing it.

There are people who genuinely wouldn’t be able to work, and those who love banging on about their feelings as an excuse and to self validate. When I get a wiff of the latter I lose all patience.