I called DP's counselling bollocks

[MyMumisMarv]

I hope I don't appear unsympathetic to depression - I'm open to being completely wrong and learning something.

Also, I've been depressed and anxious myself and had treatment and I understand everyone is different, but for some reason I am feeling more frustration and scepticism with my partner.

Background: my DP of five years lost his business a couple of months ago and has had to go bankrupt. Horrible experience, not least because much of it was due to his mismanagement and covering up of finances. Since then, he's yet to find work (he could have had a couple of basic jobs by now) and he's been missing job interviews and lying about it. He's been relying on the support of me and his parents. He's been lying about other things too - a bad habit that I've caught him doing frequently during our relationship.

A couple of weeks ago, I told him to move out. He did for a few days. He came back when we sorted things out. He wanted to go back to a counsellor he saw before we met who apparently helped him with his lying.

We were talking about how he's doing last night. I picked up on the fact they don't seem to be addressing his lying problem (the reason we're here) but they are just talking about his grieving process from losing his business.

He said that's because of his depression, which came as a surprise to me as although I've known it has been stressful, on a day to day basis he has seemed fine, not depressed.

He said its holding him back in getting a job, yet won't go to the doctors for medication to improve this.

He said he and his counsellor think he has been bottling up his feelings about what has happened and its all tangles up in a web of very low self worth and self loathing and a myriad of emotions that he is too afraid to feel because he doesn't want to 'hold the mirror up to himself' .

He said he isn't ready to 'open that door yet' and he doesn't feel he will be able to move past everything until he does. He said he's just too scared to deal with his feelings.

I understand why he would feel depressed and that there has been a lot of stress and he's had a huge knock to his confidence, but I don't understand much of what he was talking about or what it has to do with the price of butter.

At the end of the conversation, we hugged and he thanked me for trying to understand and not forcing him to 'face his fears' when he's not ready to.

That just felt a bit too dramatic for me and at that point I just said oh come off it! This is bollocks. I get why you feel shit but what's there to face? You need to get a job so you're going to have to.

He told me I had handled it very wrongly, what I said was deeply unfair and unfeeling and 'shaming' and made him feel like I just thought he was being stupid and weak.

I guess I just don't understand the language he's used? It just feels like excuses to not get a job and for why he's been lying. Maybe it's because I ve been losing respect for him because of his lying so Im not treating him as gently as I should?

Am I being unsympathetic? I'm happy to be flamed if I deserve it

How is he paying foe the therapy what with having no income?

OP - i think you were possibly a little insensitive in your positioning, but how you feel is perfectly understandable.

you are well within your rights to tell him that while you are supportive of him working through things at his own pace, you need to protect yourself from the fallout in the meantime.

then leave him to it.

this could be temporary, if you think there could be a future where he's sorted himself out, or permanent if you don't.

it also might give him some impetus to move things along more quickly. if he's got you and his parents indulging him, he's no incentive to move forward.

I’d be severely unimpressed by someone attending counselling sessions and still wanking on about not being ready to face his fears, tbh. What’s the bloody point?
Massive attention seeker.

@wellthisisshit - thank you for posting about your experience. I think if you were my DP my attitude would be very different.

He's saying he can't face it until he's ready and when I suggested if he wanted to face it he would do it and face it but he said it's not black and white, it doesn't work like that.

Tbf I am not entirely clear what he needs to 'face' he's described the feelings that he has; shame and guilt etc so he knows what he's feeling? He's waiting to be ready for this big avalanche of emotion by the way he's talking, but I don't get that. Why wait for it, why not work at things now, get a job, take responsibility, stop lying etc and then you'll start to feel better about yourself?

Am I massively missing the point?

Thanks everyone for insights, it's helping a lot, sorry my replies are a bit more sporadic now due to work but I'm reading it all with lots of interest

He's taking the piss. I had a period a few years ago when I'd finished uni of being depressed and I'd just moved hundreds of miles away with my ex to support him in a new job. I hated it and didn't get a job for months because I didn't want to be 'stuck' there. My parents and ex supported me. It was only when I came home and got a kick up the backside that I needed to get a job that I applied for the first shitty one I could see and it immensely helped my MH. Ended a shit relationship, made new friends, had money to do things and eventually move out. It's all well and good having time to think about how you feel, but ultimately not having a purpose in life is going to make you feel worse. He needs to get a job, even a PT one for 16 hours a week if he doesn't feel ready to go back to work FT. Anything would be better than nothing. It'll help his MH and you won't feel like he's just fucking around for the sake of it.

The lying thing is a whole other issue, though. If the trust is gone and you aren't happy, end it. He needs to get his shit together and stop making you utterly miserable.

Is it time for him to continue his counselling while living else where.

Maybe it would help him to concentrate him in getting what he needs to do get better.

He’s lied & bankrupted you. Is your credit affected by this ? You’re having to hold him up financially & he is still playing the victim ?

As someone with bipolar (so understand depression/anxiety issues) he is absolutely taking the piss & exploiting the concept of counselling to continue pushing his view of himself as a victim.

Until he can face up to himself & what he has done, speak honestly & openly about his actions/behaviour then the relationship is dead. Even if he is able to discuss it someday, it sounds like you’re sick to the back teeth of him. Once you have lost respect for a person, the end is eventual IMO.

It sounds like he babbles on & tries to confuse you without actually explaining anything he is done & refuses to take responsibility for his actions. You have bills to pay. He could be pulling beers at a pub while he daydreams about having to face himself. You don’t even need qualifications to serve alcohol in the UK (well you didn’t in the early/mid 2000s!) he could be out earning before the week was out if he was committed to fixing his huge financial fuck ups.

It's all very well him blaming all his issues on bottling up his feelings and needing to grieve the loss of his business. It conveniently ignores the fact that it was these issues that caused his current situation, rather than the other way around.

It sounds like he has surrounded himself with people that indulge and enable him in his 'woe is me' approach, including the counsellor. Interesting that he went back to a previous counsellor, probably because he knew they would indulge rather than challenge him.

I think you can either choose to go along with it or decide that after 5 years if he's still stuck in a cycle of refusing to take responsibility for his feelings, actions or ability to support himself, then this is who he is. Several of these behaviours are dealbreakers for most people, regardless of whether he has a 'valid' reason or not. It is still damaging for you to be in a relationship with someone who behaves like this and at a certain point you need to look out for your own interests (as he's far too focused on his own 'needs' to give a shit about yours).

waiting for someone to call cocklodger. as the pp said can't he try pubs, hotels or shops.

There are two things here, feelings and responsibilities. I'm all for counselling, in fact I'm training to be a counsellor myself. I'm sure he's got issues he needs to deal with, you don't come through losing a business and bankruptcy unscathed emotionally.

On the other hand, most people can't let the feels get in the way of supporting themselves and their families. Single mums don't just get to not deal with stuff until they're emotionally ready.

Your husband sounds totally unreliable and hapless and this has caused his business to fail. And he lies. Sounds like ingrained behaviour and it would have to be a bloody miraculously good counsellor that sorts that out while he wallows in self pity.

I'd suggest a temporary separation to give him time to work on himself. A physical and financial separation may focus his mind.

A lot of 'counsellors' are useless, because it's a fairly hit-and-miss thing and, more importantly, unregulated: anyone can call themselves a counsellor

Yes, they can, but not everyone can be an accredited member of the BACP. Do your homework.

You can get stuck in a rut and feel unable to act.

It is possible your husband is immobilised like that right now.

It is not your duty to stick with him if you don't want to.

Asking him to move out previously has not jolted him into action, so if you do say enough is enough, make it permanent.

Look, kick the fucker out. If he's genuinely got something to recover from, it's more likely that being dumped by you will inspire him to make an effort: if he's just a self-pitying professional victim then it doesn't matter what happens to him - it needn't be your problem any more.

There are times when a partner's mental illness, however severe and genuine, and however hard the partner is working on recovery, still means the relationship has to go on hold and the partner live elsewhere, and that is perfectly ok. Women, in particular, are too often expected to 'remember your marriage vows' and carry on looking after a man who is violent, verbally abusive, spending money the family can't afford, refusing to work or contribute, or behaving in ways which are frightening or otherwise inappropriate in front of DC. Because the poor darling's ill and you should 'love' him still.
You do not have to do this. for one thing YOU are not a mental health professional. Throw him out, he can leech off his parents.

The problem with waiting until you feel ready when it comes to anything in life, is that you never actually feel ready. Think of all those first novels, career changes, first dates and personal breakthroughs that never happened - sacrificed on the alter of procrastination in the Temple of Self Doubt.

Feel the fear and do it anyway - tell him. Or get busy making him ready when you tell him to do one. Necessity is the mother of getting shit done.

My invoice is in the post.

OP - are you funding his sessions? Hope not!

I can understand you getting frustrated, of course, but a counsellor's job is to unpick the problem. If he/she feels that the roots to your DP's current problems lie in unresolved feelings from his business failure or further back, it doesn't seem at all unreasonable to work on that as a priority.
However: I have had counsellors who probe the feelings to 'let it out' and counsellors who actively work on addressing the future after doing that. Much prefer the latter.

Now he can't effectively get a job or tell the truth because he's scared to face feelings
He's not scared to lie to you repeatedly though is he?

He's manipulating you.
You have to 'support' him by continuing to bail him out financially and never expecting any respect or consideration back from him....failure to do so is you being 'responsible' for holding back his 'recovery'.

He expects to continue enabling his selfishness.
Has he ever had a job working for someone else?
Cos it sounds like his business was his 'hobby' and that's all he wants to do - even though he's shit at it because he can't even be honest with himself.

I guess I just don't understand the language he's used?

He's playing snowflake bingo. YANBU Op.

He needs to end it with you

(for his own sake and wellbeing)

2 things stand out in your OP, he lies, and his company went bankrupt due to his mismanagement and covering up of finances.

I would say that these are fundamental issues which need to be addressed. Why does he do this? It seems to me he is making a lot of excuses why he can't move forward - it appears to come down to fear/anxiety of being "told off"/rejected?

Hmmm. I'd advise you to get a copy of Games People Play (with a health warning that it was written in the 1950s and one or two of the 'marital games' should be handled with flameproofed gloves), turn to 'Therapy Games' and understand how both you and the counsellor are getting embroiled in a big game of 'Why Don't You, Yes But.' (The posh name for this branch of counselling is Transactional Analysis).

Your job is to break out of the enabling role you have unwittingly fallen into, and stop playing the game. Your support has shielded your DP from the consequences of his inadequacy and prevented him from seeing the necessity of getting a job. So, don't pay for any more counselling unless it's specifically directed towards getting a job (CV, interview skills, professional development). Move out/move him out if you have to. It may be that he carries on playing the game with someone else, whether that's the counsellor or his parents. You can do without the nonsense.

Medication isn't always the answer, in fact I would say that most of the time it isn't. If someone is depressed due to situational factors then I don't think medication is any use.
If he was saying to his therapist everything is perfect and rosey etc. and for some reason i'm depressed the therapist would recommend medication, but obviously the therapist isn't recommending it for a reason.

You say that he didn't seem depressed on a day to day basis, what do you think depression feels like or is supposed to look like?

There are many threads on depression here and I don't have much sympathy for the people involved when it goes on for many years and they don't seem to do anything to help themselves, people generally aren't full on depressed for years straight, there would be periods when they get better or at least well enough to say right i'm going to take advantage of this lighter mood and new positivity and be proactive about my mental health. If they don't do that then I don't think it's fair on their family.

However if your husband has only said he has been depressed for a couple of months I do think that that seems to be very intolerant of you, i'm not saying that you're wrong, you know him better than I do, you are able to guess if he's using it as a cop out or not.

I will say though that I think your marriage is in serious trouble if after only 2 months you are so intolerant and think he's using it as a cop out. I'm sure it's the lying etc. that has caused all of that so i'm not telling you that you should be more tolerant etc. just that that has clearly caused a lot of damage to your relationship. Do you think that that can ever be repaired? If not, then what's the point?

Also i've known a couple of men who went through quite severe breakdowns after going bankrupt or losing their businesses, I think the sense of failure can eat away at these particular men and make them doubt everything about themselves up to that point. I knew one guy who lost everything but refused to apply for benefits with his wife out of shame, she couldn't apply either because she needed lots of documents for him. It took him a long time to come around.

That's all very convenient isn't it. They seem happy for him to leach off you then. DHs parents seem to both engulf our lives whilst offering very little support to DH and indulging him with how difficult his life is. Yes it must be awful to have most things done and paid for by someone else, sigh. You need to start making life a lot less comfortable for him. Start by totting up all of your joint expenditure and tell him you expect him to be contributing half as you cannot financially support him any longer. I did this and its really help as I now dont feel like I'm paying for DH to do what his wants and his DC whilst I'm stuck. Start to pull back a bit emotionally and get out and do your own thing. Arrange a night out with a friend or something. Whether you continue the relationship or not, do not put your life on hold for this man.