I called DP's counselling bollocks

[MyMumisMarv]

I hope I don't appear unsympathetic to depression - I'm open to being completely wrong and learning something.

Also, I've been depressed and anxious myself and had treatment and I understand everyone is different, but for some reason I am feeling more frustration and scepticism with my partner.

Background: my DP of five years lost his business a couple of months ago and has had to go bankrupt. Horrible experience, not least because much of it was due to his mismanagement and covering up of finances. Since then, he's yet to find work (he could have had a couple of basic jobs by now) and he's been missing job interviews and lying about it. He's been relying on the support of me and his parents. He's been lying about other things too - a bad habit that I've caught him doing frequently during our relationship.

A couple of weeks ago, I told him to move out. He did for a few days. He came back when we sorted things out. He wanted to go back to a counsellor he saw before we met who apparently helped him with his lying.

We were talking about how he's doing last night. I picked up on the fact they don't seem to be addressing his lying problem (the reason we're here) but they are just talking about his grieving process from losing his business.

He said that's because of his depression, which came as a surprise to me as although I've known it has been stressful, on a day to day basis he has seemed fine, not depressed.

He said its holding him back in getting a job, yet won't go to the doctors for medication to improve this.

He said he and his counsellor think he has been bottling up his feelings about what has happened and its all tangles up in a web of very low self worth and self loathing and a myriad of emotions that he is too afraid to feel because he doesn't want to 'hold the mirror up to himself' .

He said he isn't ready to 'open that door yet' and he doesn't feel he will be able to move past everything until he does. He said he's just too scared to deal with his feelings.

I understand why he would feel depressed and that there has been a lot of stress and he's had a huge knock to his confidence, but I don't understand much of what he was talking about or what it has to do with the price of butter.

At the end of the conversation, we hugged and he thanked me for trying to understand and not forcing him to 'face his fears' when he's not ready to.

That just felt a bit too dramatic for me and at that point I just said oh come off it! This is bollocks. I get why you feel shit but what's there to face? You need to get a job so you're going to have to.

He told me I had handled it very wrongly, what I said was deeply unfair and unfeeling and 'shaming' and made him feel like I just thought he was being stupid and weak.

I guess I just don't understand the language he's used? It just feels like excuses to not get a job and for why he's been lying. Maybe it's because I ve been losing respect for him because of his lying so Im not treating him as gently as I should?

Am I being unsympathetic? I'm happy to be flamed if I deserve it

They are probably trying to find the root cause of his lying but they could spend weeks or months going over that and is it realistically going to help him get a job? I think it sounds like you have had enough. You could say you expect him to work and contribute alongside his counselling.

So he was seeing this 'counsellor' before you met, and that was supposed to help with his lying? It clearly didn't, given that he's gone on to fuck up his business and his relationship by lying. I reckon he carefully chose a counsellor who is going to pat his hand and say 'there there' a lot but never challenge him.

I bet his business only lasted as long as it did because you have been repeatedly bailing him out. Honestly, get rid of this parasite: he's had five years of your life already. Don't let a loser like him bleed you dry.

I am a big advocate for counselling, but it is important to remember that counsellors are human too. They need to believe and accept the client in order for the counselling relationship to work - they don’t have a hotline to ‘the truth’.

I'm sure the counselling sessions are helping your husband but they take time. He'll be exploring issues in great depth and all sorts of other things will pop up.

Counsellors don't give advice or tell people what they 'should' do; the purpose is gently guiding the client to evaluate and eventually make decisions themselves.

CBT is a quicker, sharper route but has very little depth and a lot of people are not suitable candidates.

Your husband is right, psychiatrists only offer medication and meds don't suit everyone. It annoys me too that is all that's on offer! I daresay it annoys the doctors themselves too but they have to follow guidelines (& what the drug companies tell them).

It's difficult to live with someone who has problems like your husband and if you have had enough, it might help if you live separately, at least for a while.

Part of it seems pretty black and white - his lies and failure to function as a partner and adult leading to losing the business and bankruptcy means you are fed up and kicked him out. He presumably said something about working on the problems and you let him back. It now turns out that ‘working on the problems’ means an extended period of focussing on himself and not fixing any of the practical issues that led to you throwing in the towel. So you’re back at he can do whatever he likes but you can’t support him doing it anymore and can he please leave. He’s very welcome to get in touch when he feels he has confronted his feelings sufficiently that he has a job and is prepared to contribute to your life together.
That seems quite black and white to me - it doesn’t really matter whether it’s the right therapy etc.

Most of us HAVE to work, even while in counselling, for whatever reasons. He's taking the piss here. I'm with whoever said: The problem with waiting until you feel ready when it comes to anything in life, is that you never actually feel ready. Think of all those first novels, career changes, first dates and personal breakthroughs that never happened - sacrificed on the alter of procrastination in the Temple of Self Doubt.

Feel the fear and do it anyway - tell him. Or get busy making him ready when you tell him to do one. Necessity is the mother of getting shit done.

I am more worried about his ‘issues with lying’. We all tell the odd porky pie, but that’s pretty fundamental. It’s a bit like saying ‘issues with stealing’ or ‘issues with fraud’.

I agree he’s manipulating you. I’d send him packing to his parents.

Of course people can be too depressed to work. People can be so depressed they take their own lives!
I’m not saying this is the case with the OP’s partner - how can we know - but I do feel there have been some pretty shocking attitudes towards mental illness expressed on this thread at times. Almost the idea that depressed people are selfishly wallowing in it, and should just pull their socks up and get a grip......

Thing is, some 'depressed' people are lazy, selfish chancers or useless crybabies. This prick is almost certainly one of them: self-diagnosed, won't see a doctor because 'they'll only give him pills' - or, more likely, will point out that what he needs is a good kick in the cock and he is not suffering from depression at all.
It doesn't actually do people who genuinely suffer from depression any favours to peddle this idea that what a depressive needs is unlimited indulgence from family and friends. Depression is not cured by simply letting the sufferer have their own way all the time.

I have a severely depressed relative (multiple hospital admissions) and I actually agree with much of what you say, SGB.

They have been depressed for most of their adult life and it has had untold consequences on their relationships with their children (who are now grown) and wider family (who have been deprived of a meaningful and mutual relationship with that person). They refused treatment for a long, long time and we all had to tiptoe around it without ever naming the problem.

To be honest, if someone had given them a kick up the butt and forced them to go to the doctor fifteen years ago, it would have done all of us a huge favour.

If he seriously thinks he has depression, he should see a GP for assessment.

Many GP's will push "talking treatments" first before medication & NHS lists can be long, so people sometimes end up paying for private therapy (which as PP have pointed out is a bit hit or miss for various reasons). Counsellors can be "client-centred" which might lead him to feel validated in not challenging himself.

He's told you how he feels, and you can express yourself too; that you are not prepared to be his enabler. That part of the deal for him remaining in the home is that he pulls his weight & looks for another job. Or something similar.

You have choices here.

She doesn't really have the right to make him leave the home though MissProsecco, she can make all the demands she wants but that doesn't mean he has to go!

Probably going to get an angry mob at the door complete with torches but I got about halfway through that and decided I think its bollocks too.

He is probably lying about the depression. He will either be cherry picking or has really Google diagnosed himself. Last time I checked councillors dont actually diagnose anything either.

My other half gets severely depressed due to the fact he was roped and beaten by his parents most of his childhood, is the most dramatic person I know (and multiple people say the same) and even he wouldnt be acting like this.

You will resent him more and more until you leave.
He will be a perpetual victim and you will be painted as an abusive uncaring bitch despite the fact you will probably be very unwell yourself, mentally and possibly physically like I was.

tiny - I agree, some shocking attitudes

He could be depressed, very depressed, but he might be a massive liar liar pants on fire.

If he's a liar liar pants on fire, how will you ever know what the truth is? How will his counsellor? If hes a compulsive liar, i really doubt hes able to be honest with his counsellor.

Then all this stuff about putting it all on hold could be more lies, but equally it could be true.

You do have to put yourself first in this and decide where you are at and whether you can continue just not knowing either way.

It will likely take many many years of counselling, if its possible to unravel such a long-term liar. There will likely be too much for him to face to be able to start breaking that down. Its also likely to take more skill than a counsellor has.

It will be years, from the point he decides.

However, i dont get whats stopping him working?

There's so much he could do im sure to bring in some income whilst not being overly stressed with it.

If he's incredibly depresssed maybe he just cant face anything at all, but that means he does need medical help, even short-term, just to get him over this bit.

The main thing is though, back to you, asking yourself how much of this you can deal with, whether you can ever trust him, as it sounds like your trust is blown, understandably, and to lay it out clearly for him what's acceptable for you. You could end up breaking psychologically yourself going round in ever decreasing circles making sense of it!

It might already be too late for your relationship.

I am sorry you've got all this on your plate, and I agree with the suggestion you try to get yourself a break from it too before making any big decisions, and distance yourself some first.

Good luck with your decisions.

He's a wallower. I bet he stays in counselling long term because it validates how he wants to live.

His lying might be a symptom of something else, which the counsellor is trying to explore. And unfortunately, they can only work with what your DP gives them.

It does sound like you've had enough, and understandably so, as he hasn't really shown much motivation to change. It sounds as though he's pretty happy to let things trudge along as they are.

Thanks for the all of the responses, I'm still confused as to what I think about it all. I spoke to a friend IRL who has suffered from depression on and off for a long time and I've concluded that on a couple of points, I need to cut him some slack. On others I'm not sure of.

Not meant as a drip feed, but a bit of a response to some comments and also to explain my thought process...

I really don't wish to undermine depression. During the argument, my DP said I had a 'just get on with it' attitude and that I should be ashamed. But its really not how I feel about mental health - I've seen how devastating it can be through friends and family.

I also suffered myself last year. I'd had two miscarriages, we were struggling a lot financially (mainly due to DP's business), my own business was declining due to my health and after 3 years of being main breadwinner I was tired.

Fortunately, I found medication helped me, I also had a long fought for diagnosis of ADHD which resolved a lot of difficulties and things got better.

And there was a few weeks where I just didn't work at all. Whenever I could, I stayed in a darkened house feeling completely lost. He was very supportive (although not financially)

I still paid my way and tried to get back on top because I was terrified if I didn't, there would be no one to support us all, not least my DD.

Maybe I'm using myself as a comparison too much and should remember, depression isn't the same for everybody. But I think it's pretty safe to say, its the lying and past behaviours that are colouring my reactions to this.

I had tried to be very supportive, during the weeks before he went bust, I did everything I could to help but then discovered some monumental errors.

Ive not been pushy at home and I've tried to give him time to recover but then discovered he'd lied about going to job interviews.

In a way, I get what he's saying about being scared of going back into employment etc. But who gets the luxury of not doing that because they're scared? I've been trying to decide if that is depression or that is him, unfortunately I think it's him.

Oh and drink no, I'm not footing the bill. For the counselling. He has had some money from a one off freelance job and his parents have given him money regularly.

Also apparently the counsellor is very cheap

He sounds like he was always bad news, and you tolerated lying. Sounds like you’ve now had enough of him, which is understandable!

@smotheroffive - you sound like you know your stuff re counselling and liars. Can I ask if you know more and how?

Can I ask if you know more and how?

If I know more about what? How? Can you explain a bit more?

I dont know about liars per se. I am thinking walter mitty types who build their worlds in their own heads and their identities are dependent upon this model and anything threatening that would threaten to destroy their entire psyche.

It depends, i would say, on the individual liar and how much you do feel you really know about him?

Theres a possibility that this is his breakdown, that he cannot keep this up any more, but he needs to keep building a relationship with a counsellor. This one might not have been the best fit for him to feel he could work with.

It comes down to your choice though. What you can handle.

Perhaps he can provide sufficient funds from his parents temporarily?

It will likely take many many years of counselling, if its possible to unravel such a long-term liar. There will likely be too much for him to face to be able to start breaking that down. Its also likely to take more skill than a counsellor has

This bit just sounded like you had some. Knowledge or experience in dealing with someone like that. Its what I've been read g about too - the fact that liars don't ever really change even with a lot of therapy.

No worries at all if that's the extent of what you know though! You just write very expertly