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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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to wonder at what point enough is enough

125 replies

kandykane77 · 30/05/2019 18:09

DH has had bad MH issues for a couple of years. His behaviour is sometimes fine, sometimes very hard to live with. It can be like living with two different people. I’ve taken professional advice and been told that if he were mentally stable his behaviour would be abusive but as it’s most likely caused by his MH problems it’s hard to live with but not abusive.
Last time there was a bad patch I planned to go and told him to take some responsibility or lose me. He made more of a effort with his MH and I stayed. But now he says he’s going to stop taking his tablets at the weekend. I’m terrified of what’s going to happen when he stops taking them. He’s not had any therapy or anything just tablets. So I am worried it will all go back to how it was.
Is enough enough? Am I a bitch to think about leaving someone because I can’t cope with his mental illness? We’ve been together for 12 years. He’s been ill for about 3 years.

OP posts:
AnotherEmma · 31/05/2019 08:22

From the abuser profiles by Lundy Bancroft:

THE MENTALLY ILL OR ADDICTED ABUSER

This last category is not actually separate from the others; an abusive man of any of the aforementioned styles can also have psychiatric or substance-abuse problems, although the majority do not. Even when mental illness or addiction is a factor, it is not the cause of a man's abuse of his partner, but it can contribute to the severity of his problem and his resistance to change. When these additional problems are present, it is important to be aware of the following points:

  1. Certain mental illnesses can increase the chance that an abuser will be dangerous and use physical violence. These include paranoia, severe depression, delusions or hallucinations (psychosis), obsessive-compulsive disorder, and antisocial personality disorder known as psychopathy or sociopathy). These psychiatric conditions also make it next to impossible for an abuser to change, at least until the mental illness has been brought under control through therapy and/or medication, which can take years. Even if the mental illness is properly treated, his abusiveness won't necessarily change.
  1. An abuser's reactions to going on or off medication are unpredictable. A woman should take extra precautions for her safety at such a time. Abusers tend to go off medication before long—I have had few clients who were consistent and responsible about taking their meds in the long term. They don't like the side effects, and they are too selfish to care about the implications of the mental illness for their partners or children.
  1. The potential danger of a mentally ill abuser has to be assessed by looking at the severity of his psychiatric symptoms in combination with the severity of his abuse characteristics. Looking at his psychiatric symptoms alone can lead to underestimating how dangerous he is.
  1. Antisocial personality disorder is present in only a small percentage of abusers but can be important. Those who suffer from this condition lack a conscience and thus are repeatedly involved in behaviors that are harmful to others. Some signs of this condition include: (a) He started getting into illegal behavior when he was still a teenager; (b) his dishonest or aggressive behavior involves situations unrelated to his partner, rather than being restricted to her; (c) he periodically gets into trouble at workplaces or in other contexts for stealing, threatening, or refusing to follow instructions and is likely to have a considerable criminal record by about age thirty, though the offenses may be largely minor ones; (d) he is severely and chronically irresponsible in a way that disrupts the lives of others or creates danger; and (e) he tends to cheat on women a lot, turn them against each other, and maintain shallow relationships with them. The psychopath's physical violence is not necessarily severe, contrary to the popular image, but he may be very dangerous nonetheless. Antisocial personality disorder is very difficult to change through therapy, and there is no effective medication for treating it. It is highly compatible with abusiveness toward women.
  1. Those who suffer from narcissistic personality disorder have a highly distorted self-image. They are unable to accept that they might have faults and therefore are unable to imagine how other people perceive them. This condition is highly compatible with abusiveness, though it is present in only a small percentage of abusive men. Clues to the presence of this disorder include: (a) Your partner's self-centeredness is severe, and it carries over into situations that don't involve you; (b) he seems to relate everything back to himself; and (c) he is outraged whenever anyone criticizes him and is incapable of considering that he could ever be anything other than kind and generous. This disorder is highly resistant to therapy and is not treatable with medication. The abuser with this disorder is not able to change substantially through an abuser program either, although he sometimes makes some minor improvements.
  1. Many abusers who are not mentally ill want women to think that they are, in order to avoid responsibility for their attitudes and behavior.

Substance abuse, like mental illness, does not cause partner abuse but can increase the risk of violence. Like the mentally ill abuser, the addicted abuser doesn't change unless he deals with his addiction, and even that is only the first step. Chapter 8 examines the role that substances play in partner abuse.

The attitudes driving the mentally ill or addicted batterer are the same as those of other abusers and will likely follow the pattern of one of the nine styles described above. In addition, the following attitudes tend to be present:

• I am not responsible for my actions because of my psychological or substance problems.

• If you challenge me about my abusiveness, you are being mean to me, considering these other problems I have. It also shows that you don't understand my other problems.

• I'm not abusive, I'm just———(alcoholic, drug addicted, manic-depressive, an adult child of alcoholics, or whatever his condition may be).

• If you challenge me, it will trigger my addiction or mental illness, and you'll be responsible for what I do.

Cautionsharpblade · 31/05/2019 08:36

Sorry to hear you’re going through this. I know what it’s like to love someone who is kind, caring, funny and clever but who changes completely during an ‘episode’. I felt terribly guilty thinking about leaving him. The professional advice was to do what I could but cut loose before he dragged me down with him. His death pre-empted any move on my part and I miss him like hell. I don’t miss the illness though.

tensmum1964 · 31/05/2019 08:43

To be fair if he is considering coming off of meds knowing what the impact on you and your child will be then he doesnt really care about you both and is not a decent human being. He's totally selfish and only considering himself in this. He will drag you and your child down with him if you stay.

billy1966 · 31/05/2019 08:46

That sounds very hard OP.

BUT

Your son needs you to prioritise him and both of your safety.

Nothing else matters.

Good luck.

You need to

Merryoldgoat · 31/05/2019 08:59

The reason he wants to come off the tablets is that I assume his doctor is quizzing him about progress and what steps he’s taking to improve.

I’ve had PND for about a year now. It was very hard to admit to myself and others but I did and saw my doctor.

I have therapy and tablets; good days and bad days.

My doctor wants to see me every 2 months to ensure I’m ok and review my meds and talk about my therapy.

Your husband doesn’t want to take responsibility.

For me that’s incompatible with an adult relationship. I’d be leaving him, especially if he also displays abusive behaviour.

Cheeserton · 31/05/2019 09:11

Walk away before you get too involved they say. It's her husband! How involved do you have to be?

Freddiefox · 31/05/2019 09:34

He has done awful things in the past and it seems ridiculous to leave him now for things he did a few months ago

No it really doesn’t, the fear is still there, the concerns about unpredictable behaviour. These don’t just vanish because you’ve had a few good days.

If he’s thinking of coming of his meds he has no real inderstanding or concern how his behaviour effects the family.

What other effects is he making to improve his mental health?

Icandothisallday · 31/05/2019 09:40

How involved do you have to be?

To be fair the person that said that, posted before she said she had a child.

Sharing a child makes you far more involved. If you are married you can divorce, cut ties and move on. With kids you will likely have to have contact with them for years to come.

WeirdAndPissedOff · 31/05/2019 09:52

Hi OP, you have my utmost sympathy. I'm in a similar situation, but with a sibling rather than a partner. When they're doing well, you see the person they used to be, or the partner/sibling/friend you love so much. And the person they want to be, too.
But when they're not coping, the behaviour IS abusive. (And even little things when they are doing well).
It's difficult, because while the MH issues may be the cause, it doesn't negate the effects - you and your DC are still suffering abusive behaviour, and the reason doesn't change that. If anything, it can make it worse because there's a hefty side dose of judgement and guilt to go with it. (In sickness and in health, you need to prioritise them, they need your support, it's not their fault etc etc). Not to mention there's always the implicit threat from them that your behaviour can make their MH worse, or push them into extreme actions.

In the long run, you need to be honest about the effect this will have on you and your DC long term. You are not a bad person if you make a decision not to continue to support yourself, your DH and DC all whilst suffering abuse. And you have to think about the environment for your DC. Only you have the full picture - look at everything, at the long-term outcomes, and have a long think about where things are likely to go and what you think the best course of action is.

But, if DH is choosing not to comply with his treatment (assuming he's not stopping medication on doctor's orders), then he is making that choice knowing the negative effects it will have on the three of you. He is not completely absolved of responsibility for his mental health and behaviour, and at the very least he needs to be following the recommended treatment plans if there's any chance for you to have a future together. Anything else shows a lack of consideration for you and DC, or at the very least that he is putting his own wants (not even needs) first.
(Though of course, I understand wanting to stop treatment as it's a long, hard path with often multiple shitty side effects, he needs to make better decisions for the sake of all three of you).

Singleandproud · 31/05/2019 10:06

Would it be possible to rent a small flat somewhere nearby for DH? My parents did this in my teen years as DDad was struggling with MH issues and it gave my parents space. DDad was as involved as ever, taking us to school, dinner all together etc but just had somewhere to go on a downday. My parents are still married and sold the little flat after about 5/6 years when DDad accepted help and had his medication changed.

Singleandproud · 31/05/2019 10:10

That’s an option if you want to stay with him, of course if you don’t you are within your rights to leave any relationship you no longer want to be in whether you have a child or not.

kandykane77 · 31/05/2019 13:29

Update: I just checked his tablet box and he last took his meds on Tuesday night.

OP posts:
Icandothisallday · 31/05/2019 13:32

So he already stopped taking them and lied to you?

kandykane77 · 31/05/2019 13:37

I never asked him if he was taking them and he never said he was I just assumed he was. Especially as he’s been awesome since Wednesday morning. 🤷🏻‍♀️

OP posts:
kandykane77 · 31/05/2019 13:37

In fact on Wednesday morning he got up before me and made DS breakfast for the first time since 2016!

OP posts:
ChuckleBuckles · 31/05/2019 13:49

He says he can’t be arsed going to see the doctor

He can't be arsed to do the thing that helps him function as partner to you and father to your DC?

You need to think very seriously here OP, he has not been putting in the serious effort it needs to regain balanced mental health, blames his abusive behaviours on that MH, and has not made the decision to stop the meds that help him, how much more can you tolerate before your own health suffers?

ChuckleBuckles · 31/05/2019 13:50

now, not "not"

Icandothisallday · 31/05/2019 14:07

I never asked him if he was taking them and he never said he was I just assumed he was. Especially as he’s been awesome since Wednesday morning.

So when he went and got the tablets, you never confirmed with him that he was going to take them?

You are ok, with Jim not telling you he is coming off them. And actually lying about when? He said the weekend. Tuesday isnt the weekend. Why would he lie?

Despite the fact that you were leaving if he didnt?

He currently still has medication in his system and is trying to act in a great way, so you believe he doesnt need the meds

But he cant continue that. Because he needs the meds. If he does continue being great, despite going cold Turkey. You know he was a twat because he could get away with it. Not MH issues.

pocketcucco · 31/05/2019 14:16

I left my ex shortly after we married due to his issues. He was angry at me because according to him he had supported me through mine (true) and I had left without supporting him. This was absolutely not true. As I explained to him I knew he had issues for years and as far back as 6 years previously I had been continuously asking him to get help or change his situation but he did nothing. In the end it affected my mental health so badly I had to leave to protect myself and it made the world of difference to my health and happiness.

Queenofpi · 31/05/2019 14:18

MH issues is a reason, not an excuse. You can understand why it happened without it being ok. Behaviour that was awful before can - and probably will - come back.

It may well be his choice whether or not to take his (from the sound of it very necessary) medication, but it is your choice whether or not you stay with him when he refuses to take it.

Having been in this situation myself, I have to say that some people did blame me for abandoning "ill" husband, but I was just removing myself from an abusive situation. You have a child to consider too, what might be the effect of your husband's behaviour on them?

I know leaving is hard, but it might be the best option if he refuses to manage his MH properly.

kandykane77 · 31/05/2019 17:53

Ugh my head hurts just trying to figure it all out

OP posts:
Loopytiles · 31/05/2019 18:12

We don’t know the extent to which MH is actually a factor in the abuse: as highlighted by the Lundy extract above.

KittyMarion · 31/05/2019 18:23

Unless he is floridly psychotic then I do not agree that he does not need to take responsibility for his behaviour. Having mental health difficulties could make life extremely difficult for him but does not give him a get out of free card to make your life a misery.

kandykane77 · 01/06/2019 14:04

I’m going to find a solicitor next week when DS is back at school. It still seems unbelievable that he’s abusing me when much of the time he’s perfectly pleasant and fine.

He’s often quite grumpy and snaps or shouts or gives me the silent treatment.
His mental health is just all over the place and I can’t work out whether he can be hateful because of his MH or whether he’s just a twat sometimes and MH excuses it.

He doesn’t help with DS, made him breakfast this week for the first time since 2016, has done the school run less times than I have fingers, hardly contributes financially - I earn much more than him so I get that but he’s only put £1200 into my account (which is the bills and rent account) in the last year! Granted I use his card to go grocery shopping sometimes while I’m waiting to get paid and he has paid for our long haul flights but that’s it. Not exactly fair.
I’m just sick of it all. I know he has MH issues, IBS, finds work stressful, clearly has untreated neuro issues (ASD type) but that doesn’t mean I have to put up with mood swings and a partner who isn’t a partner and does less around the house than our 8 year old son.

He lives with headphones on and his vape either clutched in his hand or laid on his chest ready and waiting. Hood up and cushion on lap if possible.

It sounds like leaving is the obvious choice but in there somewhere is the man I fell in love with. He loves DS dearly, just is really rubbish at being a functional father. I believe he loves me in his own way but that then contradicts the grumpiness, shouting when he doesn’t know what to choose for lunch, blanking us, sulking etc etc he’s just not nice to be around. Then sometimes he is. It’s like living with 2 different people.

OP posts:
Gingernaut · 01/06/2019 14:10

Forget the man you fell in love with.

He was either a complete fabrication or he's long dead and buried.

Save yourself and your child.