Would you wait for an engagement? Am I being silly?

[Roseyflowers]

I really need some advice. I feel like I'm waiting for a proposal that will never happen. We've even argued about this and he always says he's 'thinking about it' I am not confident he means it. He knows I want kids but he says we need to get married first. I am 36, I am getting down about it. He says just enjoy what we have now but I can't. He is still upset about how his last relationship ended four years ago!!!

Should I just accept he'll do it in his own time?
Thanks.

Are you going to dump him then? I think it’s the only sensible course of action. He clearly isn’t being honest about what he wants. Or you could try proposing to him, but unfortunately I think you’re right that he’d say no.

To the PPs saying OP should wait for him. Do you think he's worth the wait? Based on the other things she's told us about him?

Hi OP,
Just wanted to tell you about my friend. She was 35, not had a long term relationship for 10 years (!) and had sort of given up. Met a guy, both knew straight away they'd stay together, got married within the year, pregnant on honeymoon and now 4 years later are married with 2 kids. You don't have to waste your fertile years with this man because you've sunk 3 years in it. If he was serious about marrying you, he'd have bloody well done it by now, especially after seeing how much it means to you.

Hiphopopotamous thank you :)

Yes, i have decided that I am wasting m time. Superficially it looks like I am demanding a ring and probably putting him off being needy but I've realised it runs much deeper than just a ring/wedding/babies.
Ultimately he doesn't want the same things at the same time. He has made me wait, he has been dismissive when I've voiced my upset .He doesn't make me happy . I put everything into this man. I ignored advice, got with a guy already attached, felt like I was forcing us to be a couple. What I feel is unfair is he has gone along with it to suit him.

I have told him I'll be moving out. He thinks I am just being over the top and I'll calm down and we'll plod along as usual.

Hiphopopotamous I’m pleased for your friend.

If a man loves you and wants kids he won’t sit on the fence deliberating while the last of your fertile years ebb away. He’ll get you pregnant as he won’t want to risk missing the chance to have a family with you!

We’re expecting our first, I’m 31 and OH is 27, in an ideal world he’s been quite honest with me about the fact that he’d have preferred to wait until he was around my age to have more time on his career so it’s easier to juggle when a baby arrives. But he knows the world we are living in, I’m four years older, we can’t afford to wait, and if we want kids together now is the time. With zero pushing from me. That’s how a man who loves you acts. That, or being honest so you can walk away before you’re infertile. Not this.

..he's said we'll see etc

Is he your dad?

This is what is said to children - not to an adult woman whose fertile years are disappearing over the horizon

Make sure you get any money owed to you.
I think you are going to feel better about yourself very soon after you move out.

Thank you, even now I feel more liberated.

The tough part is coming to peace knowing the person i love and thought loved me is a selfish s**t who has been in it for himself from the get go.

Yes I think he has 🌸

I have told him I'll be moving out. He thinks I am just being over the top and I'll calm down and we'll plod along as usual

Be careful, Rosey - you're absolutely right in what you're coming to realise, but if he knows you're serious there's every chance he'll produce a more convincing "engagement promise" rather than risk losing your company and especially your money

That might well sound tempting and a reward at last for everything you've put up with, but I hope you'll realise it would be just another baseless promise like all the rest

Look up the fallacy of sunk costs.
Move out.
He sounds like such a loser.

springydaff you made me laugh! You’re so right. ‘We’ll see’ implies it’s up to him and he has the right to kick the can down the road and decide at his own leisure whether or not to grant you what you want from the relationship. A man who saw you as his equal would never say such a thing.

He isn’t even taking your moving out seriously.

The tough part is coming to peace knowing the person i love and thought loved me is a selfish st who has been in it for himself from the get go.

You're not the first person to feel like this. One of my favourite poems:

Defining the Problem, by Wendy Cope:

I can't forgive you. But even if I could
You wouldn't pardon me for seeing through you.
And yet, I cannot rid myself of love
For what I thought you were before I knew you.

Superficially it looks like I am demanding a ring and probably putting him off being needy

Please stop devaluing your self and your needs by describing a perfectly normal and legitimate want as "needy".

It is rational to want the financial security of marriage for yourself as well as for your future children. It is rational to not want to bring children into the world without wanting the public and legal commitment to you of marriage from their future father.

It is rational to question your partner if he had previously be engaged, knows what you want but after several years has not proposed to you.

It is NOT needy. By constantly talking about yourself like this, you are undermining yourself and your own needs.

Thank you PuppetShowInTheSoundofMusic you are right. He has made me feel needy and difficult.
One of my friends said exactly the same thing, that I should put myself first and think about what I want.
I see so many friends just finding a lovely guy, getting engaged, being blissfully happy when I feel stuck in a rut with effectively a teenage boy.

Op, you deserve more than he is giving you.

PLEASE stick to your guns and leave- he sounds like he would be a very lazy father if nothing else and still hung up on his ex.

Men sometimes think have all the time in the world to have a baby but actually can be very different- we have had over 5 years and fertility treatment and no baby!

I was once given advice which I really resented at the time - I was living with a man who had said wanted marriage, children etc then 6 months later suddenly said marriage not for him- the advice I was told “it means he just doesn’t want to marry and have kids with you” I was so angry with this advice at the time and hated the woman for saying it.

But she was right! We split up later and years later he got married.

I now have a wonderful DH but doesn’t look like will have the kids but I would rather have a happy relationship without kids than a miserable one just to have them.

I know it’s shitty but you deserve more, you can do this- he is not going to marry you, you can find yourself a mutual kind loving relationship that will be strong with or without kids

Disclaimer- am not against non married couples I just mean if marriage is important to you don’t settle.

Oh dear, OP. I was you once. We'd been together 5 years, living together 3 & I was 35/36 & wanting a family.

My DP did what yours did; dangled the carrot. But when I tried to assert my needs, he didn't take that on board & we went round in circles.

Eventually, I issued an ultimatum & told him I was moving out. He broke down & declared his undying love for me. So we stayed together & got pregnant straight away.

Only later did I find out that he had been having an affair. He had just been stringing me along until his exit plan was in place & I think he stayed with me out of duty & deciding to be Mr Nice.

I look back & there were so many red flags: love-bombing, moving away from friends & family, selfish behaviour. Not caring about my needs.

I wish I hadn't lost my confidence & had left him. Don't be me!

You're doing the right thing.
No one should have to beg a man to marry her .

I see so many friends just finding a lovely guy, getting engaged, being blissfully happy when I feel stuck in a rut with effectively a teenage boy.

That’s how it should be :)

My ex wasn’t into having kids despite telling me throughout the relationship he wanted them. Came to our agreed time to try and turns out he didn’t after all but just has gone along with it because he didn’t wanna lose me. Had a few awful months of fighting back and forth trying to get on the same page until we knew we couldn’t and split. I desperately wanted us to have a baby and he didn’t. At the time I felt bereft and so upset at the way for me I couldn’t think of anything better than starting a family together but for him it was hell on Earth.

When I met my OH it was a breath of fresh air at how easy it was. We just naturally were on the same page about everything. Naturally moved in at the right time for both of us without any negotiation or arguing. Naturally agreed when to try for a baby and then both excitedly went for it full throttle. And now we’re pregnant and both really excited and I can’t tell you how amazing it feels to be with a man who wholeheartedly feels a child with me would be a blessing as opposed to being with a man who acted like it’d be me ruining his life.

We both talked last year about whether we wanted to be married before or after kids and shared our views, and then left it. Yesterday he dipped into a jewellers while out shopping to get my view on ring styles. I reckon he’ll propose this year and that’s perfect for my wishes. No forcing or cajoling or arguing. Sorry if that sounds smug, that’s not how I mean it, I’ve been through the trying desperately to persuade my ex to want kids and marriage with me and I can’t believe I degraded myself like that, and now I know what it’s like to be with a man who feels grateful to be with me and excited for the future I can’t imagine going back.

Marriage and kids isn’t a trap for men, men benefit if it’s something they want. And you should never ever degrade yourself by trying to beg and persuade a man into wanting these wonderful things that another guy would be delighted to have with you! Why lower yourself when you can walk away and meet someone who wants the same things as you? Relationships aren’t meant to be this hard. Yes there are times of trouble. But simply moving to the next stage of your relationship should be enjoyable and fun and exciting not an awful battle of wills.

Do you think he would be willing to have a family and hold off with the engagement for now? Or would you not be happy with that?

What a ridiculous suggestion. If you RTFT you will see that he isn’t really bothered about OP. They don’t have a good relationship. He won’t consider getting engaged or married and you’re suggesting she gets pregnant? Ffs!

Will he give your money back that he owes op? Perhaps if you say I’ve been paying towards the mortgage for x time, I’ll see a lawyer about putting a claim on the property he might find it incentive to give your money back.

I think Littlemisssugarplum88 is being pretty reasonable here especially seeing a different perspective.

Rosey. Interesting that you think Littlemiss is being reasonable. Could that be because she’s the only one saying what you want to hear? 🤷‍♀️

Do you think he would be willing to have a family and hold off with the engagement for now? Or would you not be happy with that?

As well as what Alexa said, if you want to get married in what world is it a good idea to have children first? If someone is willing to make (what should be) a life long commitment of having children with you, then they sure as hell should also be willing to marry you.

If you want to get married but they aren't willing to do that but are happy to get you pregnant, it strongly suggests that they don't see having children as a life long commitment at all, they are just going to go along with the children thing to string you along in the hope it won't happen and if it does, you will be literally left holding the baby when they do meet a woman they want to marry and skip off into the sunset with her.

It makes no sense at all why a man would be wiling to have children with you (which is a much bigger commitment if you are properly morally committed to it) but not marry you if that is what you want and you have made clear that for you it is a pre-condition for having children.