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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

LEAVING sulking H

951 replies

jamaisjedors · 08/05/2019 21:56

I can't believe this is my third thread.

I first posted in December about my H's sulking and silent treatment - I was ready to leave then but then got persuaded to give it another go.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?msgid=84022238

My second thread is where everyone helped me work through what was going on, helped IRL by individual and joint counselling.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3498886-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking-part2?msgid=85957683

We have now made a joint decision to separate, and I have found somewhere to live.

I don't regret not leaving in January because I have had time to process a lot of things, confide in friends, and come to understand a lot of things about myself and H.

However, sometimes I think it would have been a lot easier to power my way out of the door whilst still fuelled with a lot of anger.

Right now I am mostly very very sad.

Today seemed like a reasonably good day, H and I managed to discuss childcare arrangements up til the school holidays quite calmly and sensibly.

We each spent time doing fun things with the DC and H is actually encouraging them to get a little excited about the new house and buying new furniture etc.

But I have just been hit by a massive wave of sadness again after overhearing part of a conversation between DC1 and a friend. DC1 was saying that he had no idea at all this was coming and had never seen us argue or fight. Sad

I was sure they were at least aware of the horrible atmosphere, particularly over the last few months so it's a bit of slap in the face to realise they had no idea at all and this must seem totally incomprehensible to them.

OP posts:
Original poster
jamaisjedors · 10/06/2019 21:33

Ok I feel a little better now but as I said, he has said things to these two friends which he doesn't say to the doctors.

They sent him home the first time we took him in, despite him being in the grip of a psychotic epsiode. They nearly sent him home again later that night, and a week later, despite the nurses telling me there was no way he'd be home yet, the doctor also tried to send him home saying he was taking his pills and was calm and behaving appropriately.

It took some serious intervention from our friends to get the doctor to re-evaluate the situation, and even then, they wanted to send him home after another week.

He thinks the doctors are out to get him, even my DC can see that he could lie to them or pull the wool over their eyes and just avoid answering questions.

Anyway, I have just had a couple of days away by the sea with my mum which did us all good, now back to school bags and work etc. but we will be fine, every day is a better day.

OP posts:
Mix56 · 11/06/2019 07:36

I think it is really strange that the doctor hasn't spoken to his wife. You were still living in the marital home when he first "cracked up". Surely you don't leave the next of kin in complete radio silence ?
You need to speak to this doctor/psy. Imagine it was your child, you would demand to know what prognostic/treatment/duration of internment. You are implicitly involved, he is still your husband on paper, you are still responsible for his care. He may be a physical risk to you & DC, & you are "concerned for his welfare".

he may be behaving well, but is not on board with his mental diagnosis, he is saying the friend is not to be trusted because he knows that F then reports back to you, and has vetoed him being let out.

springydaff · 11/06/2019 12:44

From what I've heard the French have a very different system re mental health than the brits. MH provision for a start

Kind of quite black and white approach?

Glad you're feeling calm and on top of all the commotion jamais.

Mix56 · 11/06/2019 13:17

I think a large number of French people treat their doctors a demi-Gods, their word is sacred.
Doctors are frequently surprised if you dare to do actual questioning.
I would ring up secretariat, & request to see Doctors involved.

Original poster
jamaisjedors · 11/06/2019 16:16

When I rang they refused to give me any information and wouldn't tell me if H was there or not.

I said I knew he was there, but wanted to leave my details for the doctor to contact me.

But as H has said he trusts no-one, they are saying that all information is confidential and they can't speak to me.

Apparantly his sister called and got cross with them because they gave her the same treatment...

I absolutely agree that they should be speaking to me, but it seems I may have to go up there to get them to do so, and right now I don't want to risk running into H.

Already I am having nightmares about him most nights.

OP posts:
Mix56 · 11/06/2019 16:32

Oh what a lot of self riotous idiots French people can be.
You don't want any information about him, (other than estimated release date & if he is dangerous.) You want to to Give them information to protect yourself & your children.
Get the friend to organise this then. & to say you absolutely do not want to cross his path.
Sorry about the nightmares.

RandomMess · 11/06/2019 16:45

Perhaps you can put your concerns in writing with some sort of tracked delivery?

Lunde · 11/06/2019 18:48

I think that you should contact your lawyer. If he is too ill to communicate with you then surely he should not be in contact with the children until he is well enough to communicate minimally regarding their best interests.

It sounds really odd the way that the clinic are effectively isolating him from all outside contact. Possibly they are conducting their own initial assessment without having any input from outside sources.

AcrossthePond55 · 11/06/2019 19:38

If the French rules are like the US rules, a person has an absolute right to restrict medical information, even from a spouse. And not even a doctor can override that right.

Here, you'd have to go to court and have the person declared mentally incompetent and be appointed their legal guardian or conservator

Speaking to you solicitor about applicable privacy law is a good idea.

Original poster
jamaisjedors · 11/06/2019 19:41

The thing is, he has already been under observation at the hospital for 3 weeks.

Apparently he needs to rest...

To be honest he probably could do without any contact not to feed the paranoia but on the other hand if he's totally isolated then they won't know if he's still paranoid or not - it was the visits from friends which meant they could give the psychiatrist info about his state of mind because he wasn't communicating with anyone else.

I think I could maybe go up to the clinic on a day he is not there and try to see them and point out i need info for the kids.

For the moment he has only been getting out accompanied and driven by friends but you are right, I need to know if that will change.

I have a feeling they will not tell me anything at all though.

OP posts:
TinselAngel · 11/06/2019 20:13

I'd be reluctant to let him see the kids without knowing more about his state of mind.

Mix56 · 11/06/2019 20:41

"I have a feeling they will not tell me anything at all though."
NO NO NO, you are not asking for them to divulge his personal notes, you are however entitled to know what globally is his "situation" & that is what you are asking for, in view of you are still being legally & financially responsible as spouse. ie next of kin.
I KNOW this is possible as in the case of my best friend's niece (in France, 30 yrs old) who was seeing aliens, everyone was out to get her, tried to kill herself & 100% delusional, the family have been directly involved with having her released (or not, in this case) her treatment, her follow up appointments etc etc

Wallywobbles · 11/06/2019 21:03

When my kids aged 7-11 were seeing someone for the mental health the doctor could divulge what they said. She could speak in broad terms and give me advice though.

So I'd guess that a psychologist or psychiatrist could give you advice but could only talk to you (his next of kin?) about his mental health in general terms.

You on the other hand could give him your opinion.

Hotterthanahotthing · 11/06/2019 21:46

I would be very wary about letting the children see him if the clinic won't talk to you or take your contact details.
Maybe phone again and say that you need contact from them if he is to see them ,then wait.

Blondebakingmumma · 12/06/2019 07:10

I agree with pp about letting the kids see him before you know exactly what state of mind he is in and her assurance from drs that he is safe to be around them

justilou1 · 12/06/2019 08:09

It might be smart to get psychiatrists/psychologists to explain their father’s diagnosis and what signs to look for, and how to protect themselves....

prawnsword · 12/06/2019 08:42

I’m still not convinced that this isn’t to keep you focusing solely on him. This mental break is pretty convenient for him. I suspect it’s to try to make you look bad for abandoning him when his mental state is so low. You can’t medicate for a personality disorder either. People with them are known for their manupulative behaviours. I think you’re still being played by him even from afar. You must spend a lot of time obsessing over his mental state. I’m glad you’ve gotten out but try not to let him take up so much active headspace in your mind. Your kids are old enough to have their own relationship with him. I think you need fly under the radar & avoid his constant drama. He sounds utterly exhausting.

justilou1 · 12/06/2019 12:53

People with personality disorders are also notorious for putting themselves into hospital when they are being made accountable for their behaviour. (Also *suicide attempts, etc....). It's to "punish" people for the accusations, etc and deflect from the results of this behaviour..... To negate all actual and emotional responsibility - the old, "See? I told you I was sick!"

Mix56 · 12/06/2019 13:28

I'm with prawnsword, IMHO he thinks refusing to see you is a punishment (if only he knew) he may even think you will "come to your senses".
Even if he did blow a fuse, The underlying manipulation is still there.

Original poster
jamaisjedors · 12/06/2019 17:43

Actually he's been asking friends why I haven't been to see him - they are Shock but I guess he doesn't know the extent of my fear and the rush of moving out either - he also couldn't understand why I moved out in such a hurry when he found out.

OP posts:
Lunde · 12/06/2019 19:31

It sounds as though he is trying to manipulate the situation now that the acute illness has improved. He thinks that "being ill" will get you to run around after him, wants you to just forget all about what happened a few weeks ago and return to "normal". Perhaps he doesn't even realise that he has shot himself in the foot by 1) revealing his controlling issues to friends who are now more wary of him and 2) cutting everyone off from his treatment by saying he doesn't trust anyone (the professionals should see this as a major indication of paranoia).

I think that you have been trained by him and are so used to running around after him and smoothing over all of the problems that he creates to avoid the sulks and punishing behaviours that you are struggling to step away now. I can understand wanting to know what is happening but perhaps that is keeping him more "present" in your life than he needs to be. Have you continued with your own therapy?

I think that perhaps now is the time to detach from him and leave it to others to manage his behaviour and only deal with him via lawyers. Personality disorders are notoriously difficult to treat when often patients don't actually see a need to change their actions (it has always worked for them in the past) and don't fully engage with the treatment programme. I think you need to consider your legal options (eg can you get a French version of a restraining order/Non-mol).

You should also consider whether it is in your childrens' interests to see him regularly during treatment if they are going to be interrogated. I think you need to talk to them honestly about whether they want to see him at the moment - again they are so used to putting their own feelings second to his (doing what he wants on their birthdays etc) that they may feel that it is their duty to do what he wants now regardless of their wishes.

I think that you all need to get out of the habit of letting him dominate your lives and that you all need to get out of the habit of smoothing things over to avoid his sulks while he is in a place where professionals can deal with the consequences.

Fairenuff · 12/06/2019 19:55

Is this a bit like when he ruined your birthday treat by being 'too unwell' to do what you wanted.

And when he was 'too unwell' to go when you wanted to go hiking.

If they are saying all he needs is rest then maybe they have decided that he needs no other treatment.

I think the less you react to him the easier it will be for you. Try to start focussing on what makes you happy OP. Try to have a whole day, or at least a whole afternoon or morning where you just do the things you are interested in and don't think about him at all.

As time goes by this will get easier to do. You will surprise yourself by a sudden realisation that you haven't thought about him all day.

Mix56 · 12/06/2019 20:41

Actually he's been asking friends why I haven't been to see him...
Oh come ON, he said he didn't want to see you, doctors are saying he doesn't want to see you...
Does this sound like manipulation ?

Mix56 · 12/06/2019 20:43

Actually he's been asking friends why I haven't been to see him...
Oh come ON, he said he didn't want to see you, doctors are saying he doesn't want to see you...
Does this sound like manipulation ?

Mix56 · 12/06/2019 20:45

Actually he's been asking friends why I haven't been to see him...
Oh come really ?, he said he didn't want to see you, doctors are saying he doesn't want to see you...
Does this sound like manipulation ?