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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is my boyfriend abusive or just clumsy?

107 replies

StartingAgain33 · 06/05/2019 01:28

Is this an issue we can work through?
May 5, 2019 1:44 PM Subscribe
I think my boyfriend means well and has genuine feelings for me but he seems to put his foot in his mouth a lot and sometimes the comments just seem a little nasty and unsupportive. I really like him and would be super sad if we broke up, but I don't want to continue in a relationship with someone who's potentially emotionally abusive and would value some objectivity here about some of the things he says. Combined with the fact that he finds it hard to express affection, this is really starting to affect me.

I've been seeing my boyfriend for around six months. We had an instant spark, and make eachother laugh a lot. I love lots of things about him. I hear lots of hints from him that he would like to see this relationship flourish. I once got upset about something insensitive he had done and he admitted to me that he had written in his journal that I was his perfect woman and that if he cant make it work with me he can't with anyone (I did have to get upset for him to admit that but still...).

My question: would the behaviour I describe bother you, and how would you react?

The thing that bothers me....

The crux of the problem is that he quite regularly says things that hurt my feelings. He would describe himself as 'blunt','honest' and 'logical'. But is this just shorthand for being a bit of an insensitive dick?

He said early on that he likes my 'thick skin' because I'm able to laugh off his silly insults and that compared to a lot of the girls he has dated I get his humour. But sometimes he says things which don't feel funny. I feel angry right now as there have been a few comments in the past week (during our first ever weekend away) and I don't know whether to confront him about it and possibly end the relationship (it feels like a potential red flag), just put it down to clumsiness on his part, or try and work it through with him. I have been quite patient already, I feel, although I've never confronted this issue directly.

As an example, whilst drawing my portrait he said that I had a 'featureless face'. I made some sort of sarcastic 'thanks' back (I was quite embarrassed as we were in front of his housemate) and he said he meant I was pretty and it's difficult to draw pretty people as they have 'less obvious features' to draw.

The day before, in a rare moment of vulnerability I said I feel a bit fat at the moment and like I have a belly (it was a big thing for me to admit this). He replied that I wasn't fat, but 'well-fed'. I was clearly offended at this, and he didnt back down or apologise - just repeated it (for context, I'm UK size 10 - hardly a heifer, and not that it matters). It was very awkward, as it was on our first ever little break away together, but I now feel angry about it and like he consciously or unconsciously seemed to want to increase my insecurity instead of soothing it. It's not like I regularly fish for compliments; I was just having one vulnerable moment. He seems generally a bit funny about food - comments that we've eaten enough and don't need dessert, makes me feel a bit self conscious about ordering it (he also regularly doesnt eat much before we see eachother so he can indulge; perhaps he thinks I should do this too).

Reading between the lines, he seems to have offended a lot of girls he's dated - and this is partly why his relationships haven't worked out. One girl who he describes as 'crazy' texted him angry messages for two years after they'd broken up because she was so angry at him still (he mentioned one message which was about his insults).

I looked through our last few interactions by text and many of his replies to me are sarcastic. I sent him a picture of myself in a flower crown at a friend's wedding (I was bridemaid) and he sent me back a smiley face - and a picture of a dog wearing a flower crown. I said I'd meet him when I got back to our home city but that I'd have a little suitcase with me and his reply was 'just one'? It's tiring.

I'll admit that I have mostly found his humour and cheekiness funny, and I can give as good as I get on occasion. This week my responses have been spikier due to feeling tired of it all.

He also seems to bring up his insecurities in a sideways way, so that I can't directly address them. For instance, I once said that if I don't like a book I will stop reading it as I don't see the point in wasting time reading something I don't like, and he joked that I'm like that with men (I'm not, but I can see why he might think so - we've never discussed this in depth).

He also joked TWICE on our first little holiday about my 'future boyfriends'. I find this hurtful and bizarre. Perhaps he wants some sort of reassurance or reaction from me, but I feel blindsided and immaturely joked later about his 'future girlfriend' to give him a taste of his own medicine (as I said, I've gotten spikier in the last week!).

I am finding that he's perhaps slightly cynical and untrusting of people in general. I feel like I've been waiting for him to soften and trust me, which is happening slowly, and he's doing sweet things like making plans for the rest of the year and saying things like I'd be a great mum but with it the jokes are becoming less funny and more like actual insults.

Combined with his real difficulty around verbally expressing affection (unless I do it first), I'n starting to notice this is knocking my confidence in him and our relationship and I'm beginning to be passive-aggressive myself so I need to sort it out.

Context....

I've picked up that he seems to be maybe a little intimidated by my dating experience (as one of a few examples, he's compared his never having had a 'proper' girlfriend to my previous long-term relationship and said I obviously know how to do them etc).

He's also perhaps a little competitive about work stuff. We're both freelance, and I've been very busy since we started dating whereas he's had hardly had any work. He once sarcastically mimicked me when I mentioned I'd won an award for something, along the lines of 'I'm just so good at everything'. It was only once, and he's mostly supportive, but I don't like where it comes from and I notice myself censoring good things that happen to me at work incase they make him feel worse about situation which I know is stressing him out a lot.

I think that underneath he is a good person, and I've noticed he has a very high level of empathy - when I've called him out on stuff before (like his insulting banter) he's looked mortified and upset, and he's displayed real and genuine feeling for me when I've been upset about other things which are unrelated to him.

For context, I'm generally a patient and accomodating person - I can be way too accommodating - and have stayed in relationships that I knew in my heart weren't right for way too long too many times. I'm looking for the person I want to settle down with, and I'm worried about making a mistake again. So perhaps I'm wary.

On the other hand, I can be a picky perfectionist and someone who sees the worst in things people say to me and takes them more to heart than perhaps I should. I have noticed though that many people seem to have enough sensitivity to pretty much never offend me so this isn't a universal issue in my relationships. My ex used to say I was too sensitive a lot as a way of invalidating my feelings. Looking back, I think I had a right to be upset and it has slightly affected my ability to trust myself in situations like this (I believe it could have been gaslighting). Hence why I'd like some second opinions!

On the ownership point, he has actually said that every single one of his previous girlfriends has had very good reason to be angry with him. And when I did call him out on being insensitive one time. he said that he agrees and I do not deserve that behaviour. He asked me specifically what good looked like, and what I wanted to change about the relationship. I think he actively wanted guidance, and would be open to a talk about this.

I also think that because I'm also quite sarcastic and well, British in the sense that piss-taking is the way that my family express humour I don't think he quite realises that this is upsetting me. On the outside i kind of pretend that it's water off a duck's back most of the time. It's not like I'm just sitting there visibly upset... perhaps I should modify this and stop pretending to have no vulnerabilities. He clearly thinks I'm very confident, from comments he's made before.

Again, my question: would the behaviour I describe bother you, and how would you react? Do any of you have experience with insensitive husbands / boyfriends, or are you one yourself? Am I just being too sensitive here?

OP posts:
WellThisIsShit · 06/05/2019 10:57

Humm, well, are you happy? Because it doesn’t sound like it. And that’s really the only measure you need for a relationships success.

eddielizzard · 06/05/2019 11:02

This is really not good. You really aren't happy. I'm sure there are times when you do have fun and he is kind, but really, it doesn't excuse the times when he isn't.

Gamble66 · 06/05/2019 11:21

'is he clever - mathematically inclined'? - dear fucking god

janeybumtum · 06/05/2019 12:49

I honestly think he's a pathetic, immature, manipulative little creep. He's clearly pissed off other women no end and I suspect the "crazy" exes are quite right to think he's a vile piece of work. I suspect you haven't even scraped the surface of what he is like yet. Seriously get rid, you will be both simultaneously parenting and fending off this creepy man child until you're burned out.

Ruru8thestars · 06/05/2019 13:01

Leave the insecure arsehole

Cottonwoolmouth · 06/05/2019 13:09

Well this is odd. Has no one apart from me and another poster noticed that this has been copy and pasted from something with yesterday’s date on it? Confused

Lots and lots of duplicated posts on MN recently.

DieselSucker · 06/05/2019 23:10

He doesn't love himself and is unable to love anyone else. He will continue to put you down. Doesn't seem that he has learned anything from previous failed relationships.

StartingAgain33 · 06/05/2019 23:22

Hi everyone. Thank you so much for your comments. Pretty unanimous! They gave me ammo to talk to him. I pretty much told him I was ending it, and he got very upset and said that I had every right to be upset about his comments, that I am not being over sensitive and that he agrees he needs to change and that this has been an issue before that he has been working on (!). He said he would never want to hurt me, and that I have only bought happiness to his life etc. Also that I am the only person he really wants to make a go of things with. He asked if I would give him one more chance... I am thinking about it. We spoke about why he does this, and I suggested that he is defensive and taking a ‘first strike’ approach. He couldn’t understand why he would do this, and cried a bit saying he doesn’t know why he would do that. Then we spoke about it coming from fear. And he admitted he’s terrified of ending up a lonely old man but also convinced he will and that maybe that’s where the ‘future girlfriend’ comments came from. I said he will end up alone if he keeps doing this as it will be self fulfilling prophecy. He seemed shaken and like he was listening, but it was a long and protracted conversation and he also said things like he worries he is ‘not enough’ for me in terms of the emotions he feels, that he should be further along, that he should want to see me all the time, that he worries he is not able to have a normal close relationship. I said that in that case he is pretty much telling me the answer (that we should break up) and he then said that he isn’t saying he can’t, but that he’s afraid he can’t. I’m a bit torn. I haven’t gone on about his nice qualities but I’m 34 and it’s rare I like someone this much. I think I could really love him. And, it’s strange to say in the context of my above message, bUt my feeling most of the time is that he does have feelings for me even if he is bad at showing them. I can often see him trying to clumsily express them. And sometimes he’s not clumsy at all about it. So it’s not all bad. For someone so introverted and naturally distant, I know I’ve gotten the closest anyone has to him. And I have really enjoyed it. I’m wondering whether to give him one more chance given he’s not denied there is an issue with his behaviour or blamed me. What do people think?

And on the copying and pasting issue, I did originally post this on an American forum then realised I wanted uk opinions as there are cultural differences. Hope that’s ok.

Talking of cultural differences, he’s half Swiss / italian and grew up in France till he was 12, when he has to learn English. I’m wondering whether there are slight cultural differences here that could be part of the issue. He has excellent English but can be slightly clumsy with the language on rare occasion.

OP posts:
Ohyesiam · 06/05/2019 23:23

It doesn’t matter if it would upset anyone else, or what we’d call it, because it’s pissing you off. That’s all the info you need.
Get out now before it gets worse, which it will.

ElspethFlashman · 06/05/2019 23:33

I'm doubtful.

Cos this is his PERSONALITY. I mean, this is ingrained. This is his default. This is his subconscious instinct.

And I can't see anything in your post about him having a plan?

So give him a chance to do what? What's the plan here? Some vague notion of trying to not be a twat?

Don't be a good hearted mug.

BlokeHereInPeace · 06/05/2019 23:39

The technical term for this is 'knob'. Chuck him.

lifebegins50 · 06/05/2019 23:41

If he is telling you he is emotionally unavailable then please listen. Trying to have a close relationship with some incapable is soul destroying.

Also crazy Ex is definitely a red flag. Does he have good relationship with his parents, specifically his mum? Does he have long term friends who know him? If not please don't stick around.

PaperHead · 06/05/2019 23:43

Six months in, he’s continually putting you down and now you’re virtually doing psychoanalysis on him about his (justifiable) fears of a lonely old age? Seriously, OP? You think this it’s how it’s meant to be?

AtrociousCircumstance · 06/05/2019 23:44

Jesus Christ OP he’s just confirmed that he is an arsehole, and he’s so sad about it and has sad reasons boo hoo hoo, and he’s manipulating you with his big sad sadness and you’re allowing him to.

It will happen again, and again, and again, and again, as long as you’re with him, and you’ll feel like shit, and then he’ll bring out the sad eyes and the sorrys again, and ugh, really? You want that?

DieselSucker · 06/05/2019 23:45

You're 34 and he seems so childish Confused

StartingAgain33 · 06/05/2019 23:45

He does have a good relationship with his mum, and seems to treat her nicely. He also has a big group of ‘mates’ and a couple of best friends he’s known for about ten years, although he’ll admit that he doesn’t have anyone he would talk about his issues with. That’s quite normal for men though I think :-/

OP posts:
HypatiaCade · 06/05/2019 23:49

He's going to chip away at you until there's nothing of you left....

viques · 06/05/2019 23:51

IT sounds as though he is socially inept, either because he is further along the spectrum than most or because he is a prat who has never been taught how to treat other people. Whatever the reason his behaviour upsets you and makes you uncomfortable. Why would you want to be with someone who makes you feel unhappy. Time for you to join the list of previous girlfriends who have ended up being his ex, most of us learn from experience, he clearly hasn't.

Go and find yourself a nicer man, you deserve better.

AtrociousCircumstance · 06/05/2019 23:52

Oh wow hang on - good relationship with his mum and lots of mates? Gosh that’s awesome! I think you should definitely stay with him and let him treat you like shit, and undermine you, and make you insecure and doubt yourself, and damage your relationship with yourself, and your self esteem - and then he can manipulate you and get super sad and guilt you into shutting up about your feelings! So happy for you Smile Because who cares about that, right? You’ve got a man!

viques · 06/05/2019 23:59

Just saw your update. You are a kind person, since you aren't sure about the relationship but want it to continue to see if it develops.

If you are willing to give it more time to see if he can moderate his behaviour then set a time limit to see if he can become kinder, but I think it will be a long hard slog for this man to change. Re booting behaviour long term is hugely difficult.

StartingAgain33 · 06/05/2019 23:59

AtrociousCircumstance - No need to be so aggressive. Someone directly asked me how he treats his mother and whether he has any long term friends, so I answered it. That doesn’t mean I necessarily feel it means much.

I’m not so desperate that I’ll take anything, and I do not in any feel desperate for a man. I’m very picky usually.

A lot of the stuff I’ve spoken about is more nuanced and subtle than it comes across when written down in one lump, and most of the time I am really happy with him. We’ve also taken the relationship slowly over the past six months so it has emerged very slowly also. It’s not like I’ve been putting up with shit for ages - this week is the first week I’ve felt upset, and I’ve gone and started to take action. So try and tone your ridicule down please - it’s not helping.

OP posts:
AtrociousCircumstance · 07/05/2019 00:01

Sorry OP. I didn’t mean to be mean. It’s very frustrating reading. He’s not a good bet if you want to be happy.

Good luck.

StartingAgain33 · 07/05/2019 00:05

Thank you, I appreciate your concern. And there is some truth to what you say. I promise I’m on high alert and am weighing up my options. My feelings are clouded right now but I think they may be clearer in a few days. I also have a two week holiday alone in two weeks which will give me plenty of space. I’m already composing the final breakup speech in my head which in my experience is never a good sign!

OP posts:
Mrsmummy90 · 07/05/2019 00:09

He sounds like a bit of a dick tbh. It should not be this hard 6 months in.
If you're not happy, move on and find someone right for you. He clearly isn't.

AtrociousCircumstance · 07/05/2019 00:10

Glad you’re giving yourself some space OP. Attachment is so powerful, it’s hard to filter through; but it isn’t an indicator that we should stay with someone, as I’m sure you know.

Enjoy your peaceful holiday Smile

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