I want to givw birth in the UK. Causing strain in relationship. Advice?

[JustWantToGoHome]

Hello,
I was born, raised, studied and love England. My family all live there and it is and always will be my home. I am a very proud British person.
I now live in France, have done for a year and a half because my partner has always been into travelling and wanted to settle abroad. I relunctantly agreed to give it a go. He is happy and loving life whereas I'm 'happy' but i do feel lonely and i was very close to my parents and little sisters (10 and 12).
I am 3 months pregnant. Very happy! But i've always told my partner I want to be in the UK when i give birth as I want my parents and sisters and his family to see our baby the first day of life. I am so passionate about this!! And this has always been a conflict of ours - not majorly but it's always been a slight disagreement for us.

He thinks i'm selfish for wanting to get a plane back to the UK whilst pregnant and that he is putting the baby first and wants the baby born in France.
But i wouldnt fly home when i'm heavily pregnant and close to labour - it'd be about 2 months in advance.
I want my parents, the grandparents, to be there.
I want to spend a few weeks at home visiting family and friends and parading their new family member.

I have compromised moving abroad for him, which he was passioante about, all i ask for is to have my baby at home and to spend a few weeks with family.
Of course I want him at the birth so i was hoping he'd agree to come with because if he refuses, i'll have no choice but to give birth in france since it's his baby too and of course he is first priority on seeing the baby. I just am so close to family and i'd always regret them not seeing my baby.
Of course they could fly out, but asking mine and his to all fly out when i could be overdue or give birth early seems complicated to organise when i could just fly home 2 months in advance.

Advice please??

Suggest you read the differences between a single & married person on www.gov.uk and www.citizensadvice.org.uk
There are implications related to property, pensio , death, illness, next of kin, one partner not working, inheritance tax. Some of these things are not relevant to you now, but may be in the future
If you are not married, suggest return to work after the baby is born and split the cost of the child care
Being unmarried, with children, generally (not always) disadvantages the female

Please consider the risks you are taking not being married and living in a country you don't want to be in.

I think your partner has changed the goal posts, was the deal to go back if one of you unhappy?

Once the baby comes the isolation will feel worse as today you interact with adults. I suspect your you get sisters missing out on being aunties will also impact you.

I would say your partner is selfish as he has it all his way, France, no marriage, baby being a French citizen - can you see how you will be tied to France.

With two British parents the baby will be a British citizen. Same is true if only one parent is British.

Go home! Have a holiday without him and see what your family thinks.

What about both of you parking your passions in favour of confirming and affirming your responsibilities to the baby.

Because now your are both bound by those responsibilities. Like everyone I know that means sacrificing opportunities if they don’t suit the needs and welfare of the child. Jobs, careers, relocations, new relationships and just about everything else will have to be secondary once you have a child. Especially if you split up. Because whether it is legal or not you can’t haul a child away from the other parent because of your wants or passions.

You both need a reality check. You don’t agree on marriage or where you will put down roots and now you are having a child. That’s the problem.

I haven't read all the responses, sorry.

Your bf's argument about a flight being bad for the baby is not really valid; you'll likely be walking about and driving places even at 9 months, and a flight isn't especially stressful in comparison.

On the other hand, unless he will also be going to the UK a couple of months before the birth, you're cutting him out from the experience of being with you, watching the bump grow and getting ready to be parents. And what if you had the baby suddenly and he wasn't there?

I did see a couple mentioning the sorry state of the NHS and would agree with that. Have a look into how long you would be likely to stay in hospital if you give birth there - don't know how it is in France, but here in Germany you don't just get sent home hours after the birth.
On the other hand, if you are quite anti-French (or at least anti- not being in the UK) then that sentiment might leak over into your experience of giving birth, and make it less pleasant than a comparable birth in the UK.

I gave birth abroad and my mother came over immediately after, and was quite helpful. But I would not have wanted her present for the actual birth; is that what you want?

You don't have to have everyone over to visit at once. If you're homesick, it would be nice for you to have people coming over every month or two, seeing the baby at different stages of development, rather than just as a newborn (they're cute, but basically just sleep!). You would then have something to look forward to every month.

You do need to get married. It is nothing to do with romance. You need the full legal backing. You're having a baby with someone who has totally different wishes for the future than you. That was already a very risky thing to do; you could well end up unwillingly abroad as a single mum, or your child might end up unwillingly growing up in the UK with no dad about. Don't add a total lack of legal support to that already risky choice.

Before I had children, my ex made vague noises about how we might go to live in the UK one day, but in the end, he was the main earner, and considered that that gave him the final say. I would not bet on you being in the UK for at least the next 18 years or so.

Having said that, I wasn't that keen on the idea of staying abroad at first, but now I'm happy here and have no plans to live in the UK again. A year and a half is no time at all. If you want to feel more at home, you need to make efforts to find local friends, and talk to them in French so that you get really good and can be yourself with them. It's possible, if you make an effort.

Why are you having a child with him?

It's all about him, isn't it? No idea why you decided to continue this pregnancy. He's a wally.

I want to get married but my partner hasnt proposed, he believes marriage is a farce these days and doesnt believe it shows commitment nor love,

Yeah, right!

Tell him you're coming over here for the weekend. Then leave.

You can get a job as a social worker.

When you get pregnant with a partner who wants to live abroad, you know you are potentially committing to live abroad. If you don't think about it, that's because you don't want to think about it.

You know you are committing, because you know that, as a decent person, you are not going to take your child away from his or her dad.

I would be worried that if I gave birth here surrounded by friends and family that I wouldn't want to go back to France.

You need to think carefully about the logistics and also have a back up plan if things don’t go to plan eg if you need extra care during the pregnancy. It sounds like as a couple you have some important decisions to make and you might even have to question your relationship.

Also a pp mentioned making new friends in baby groups etc. I read a book recently about french culture which said that France is not set up for mums and babies/toddlers like the uk is eg few toddler groups, coffee mornings, soft play etc. and the focus for women is more on getting back to work.

I have a French friend in the uk and her attitude to parenting and family life was very much like the book described.

I would find out about the activities and lifestyle for new mums in your area in France.

I'm worried about a lot of things. I'm only in france because of him so if we broke up would i be stuck in france?

Basically yeah! If he didn't consent to you taking the child back to the uk then you wouldn't be allowed to. Women get put in jail for removing their kids without consent.

If you don't want to stay in France long term and you aren't happy then come back here and stay. You can't build a whole life around one person.

Can't they just get the Eurostar? Also where would you live with a newborn for weeks? And, you'll be exhausted why would you want to be parading baby instead of adjusting to your daily life + baby.

I think your plan is possibly naive.

Also, the Eurostar takes like 2 hours

where would you live with a newborn for weeks? you'll be exhausted why would you want to be parading baby instead of adjusting to your daily life + baby
Good points. Would you be living with your parents? While learning how to breastfeed / recovering from Caesarean / looking after sore nipples / heavily pregnant? Wouldn't you want a little bit of privacy?
And those moments of bringing baby back home for the first time, sitting in your living room, alone for the first time with your new child. Those are private moments that you don't forget.

Thanks everybody!!
I've been researching and i didnt realise the Hague abduction laws existed!! And that has panicked me.
So if i give birth to my baby in France, my baby is a French citizen? So if my boyfriend wants to stay in france, the baby stays in france.whether i like it or not?
That makes me feel.so sick and panicky.
This has made me adamant that i want to return to the UK to give birth and live but I know he's going to disagree and say he wamts to stay in France.

I'm.so stressed :( i dont regret getting pregnant but my god i never thought it'd be so complicated!

I've been reading stories of women who have spent so much money on court battles and are not struggling to fund housing and food;
I obviously hope and my boyfriend dont break up but is it worth the risk of staying i france considering loads of couples break up??

To answer your question, yes, realistically, you would be stuck in France. That’s not to say you couldn’t legally move countries (you probably could if he doesn’t protest). But I moved countries to marry my dh (willingly!). Legally, I could take our dc and run away tomorrow and no one would ask any questions at the border (they are dual citizens). But really, could I move? No, realistically, not at all even if I didn’t want to be here (I do! We are very happily married). Any drama aside, they need as relationship with both their parents.

It sounds like you’re having the sorts of doubts people have about their relationship before they decide to have a baby. You’re past that now so time to buck up and do what’s best for your child.

My, limited, understanding was that even if your child was born in France they would still be a British citizen because you are and that French citizenship is not automatic.

Something also to consider..
If you had the baby in the UK would you put your partner on the birth certificate?
As you are not married he would have to be there in person when you register baby .

Also don't forget that the new baby would need a passport to travel back to France which takes time to get and also if he is on the birth certificate he would have counter sign the application.

Speaking a little from experience with sorting out some of this stuff for my granddaughter...

I sped up the process by going to the passport office in London with an express application, the passport was sent on a few days later .

It's not about citizenship it's about habitual residence. Even if the child was 100% British if they were habitually resident in France The Hague convention applies

Thanks Borset I wasn't quite sure how it worked.

i'm sorry but baby being born in Britain doesn't deal with Hague convention if your baby is born in UK and you go back to France when baby is 2 months old and that is your home you still can't come back to UK with the child unless the father wants to

as you are both UK citizens your child is entitled to a UK passport and / or a french one too however the Hague convention is not about where a child is born but where the child lives so if your normal residence is say Lyon moving from lyon is the problem
the same would apply if you were both French citizens living in Edinburgh

Even within UK it is possible due to prohibited steps order nothing to do with Hague) to prevent one parent moving from Plymouth to say Aberdeen as it stops or at least seriously inhibits the relationship of the child with the second parent

I think you need to straighten out different practical questions.

If you are British and give birth abroad your baby will be British by descent. If your baby is born in France to British parents, it will not be a French national but can apply for French nationality at 16yo if he/she has lived in France for the last 9 years.

If you are British but live in France you are a ordinary resident of France so subject to French taxes and benefiting from French social services. You would not be entitled to NHS care in the U.K. other than emergency treatment. There is a form, S 5, I think that you can use to apply for in France which, if accepted, would allow you to give birth in another EU country and France would pick up the cost. All of this is, of course, up in the air with Brexit.

If you live with your partner and child in Francome and you split up, child contact etc will be decided by French courts. French courts very much favor 50:50 contact arrangements. You will not be able to move to another country without the father’s agreement (and, of course, you may not want to take your child that far away rom it’s other parent).

French pre natal care is good. Many exams are included as standard although the French state is slightly behind the times with some tests, e.g. the Harmony was not available still in 2014 when I was last pregnant. You are looked after by a gynecologist or a specialist GP until your seventh month when you register with a hospital. Most women give birth in hospitals, some in MW led units but it is very, very difficult to get a home birth. Epidurals are offered as standard, but there are no elective cessarians (of course, there are medically prescribed cessarians). Most hospitals have private rooms or two mothers per room accommodation and you stay in hospital for three days for a natural birth or up to ten for a cessarian. Breastfeeding is encouraged and there is a lot of support, and equally no stigma associated with formula feeding. After the birth everyone is entitled to six sessions of pelvic floor strengthening and there are community MWs who can help with breastfeeding etc. Outside of large cities it is difficult to find playgroups, parent and child groups, etc as most people have extended families. Crèches take babies from three months old and are heavily subsidized but places are limited and you might need to apply now.

Sorry just to add, the cost of a private birth may vary wildly depending on whether you have an unproblematic natural birth, a c section, any hospitalization needs for mother and/or baby. A prolonged NICU stay would bankrupt a lot of people.