SAHM finances

[cactusintherye]

I am a SAHM to pre-school children. I would like to work part-time but it's difficult to find something that pays enough to cover the cost of childcare.

DH and I own our house. We have a joint account that is only used for the mortgage. He gives me an allowance every month (less than statutory maternity pay) and I have no access to any other money. He earns around £80000 a year.

I don't pay any bills out of my allowance but most of it is spent on food and things for the children. I very rarely have any to spend on things for myself i.e. clothes.

I feel very much like his money is not our money despite us both agreeing that I would stay at home for a few years to look after our children. I hate having to think about money all the time while he has savings and a big income.

A friend was shocked that we don't have one joint account I can access all the time and said it was financial abuse. On one hand I feel like me not having access to all of the finances is abuse but on the other I feel terrible for not contributing financially. I do feel generally uncomfortable about it.

My confidence has suffered since having children so I'm not sure if I'm making a big deal out of it - is anyone else in this situation?

I never understand people who say that childcare is a shared expense though. Surely what matters is the difference between how much my job would pay and how much childcare would cost? If the cost of nursery is more than I’d earn then it’s a no-brainer for me to SAH. DH’s salary is irrelevant in the equation

It's a shared expense because you jointly decided to have dc. Weighing it up only against one of the couple's salary suggests the dc are only one person's problem (usually the mother) and that the main concern is money at that moment. When actually, taking time out to be a sahp affects far more than that: the person's career progression, future earning power and pension, their status both socially and in the relationship (as we see here) and potentially their wellbeing and self-esteem.

It should be treated as a joint expense, just as you would split any bill (which I would think most fairly divided proportionate to income).

I wouldn't be solely paying for childcare out of my salary but the job has to pay enough for it be worthwhile, if you see what I mean?

No, I genuinely don't. For me childcare is a joint expense with thr bigger earner contributing a bigger percentage. You would then be earning your own money and not be in this predicament.

So I'm sorry no, I don't understand what you mean by you won't work if you can't earn more than the full cost of child care. Why should you. The children have two parents.

Because if as a couple you have a joint income of £2000 per month, with one parent at home. And then that parent goes back to work and earns £1000 a month, but children go into daycare. It looks like the joint income is increasing to £3000 per month. Except child care costs the joint pot, £1500. So in real terms - as a couple - they now have £1500 a month instead of £2000, and both parents are working!

It's nothing to do with parents sharing percentages of child care costs, or women shouldering the burden or whatever, It costs the family joint pot more.

There are obviously other things to consider, such as career aspirations, pensions etc, when considering the cost of going back to work. But financially, even families that share money can be penalised.

Salary1 + Salary2 - Childcare = RemainingCash

If Childcare is a larger amount than either Salary1 or Salary2 then it’s more profitable to cross out that salary and cross out Childcare too. I don’t see how anyone can fail to understand this?

I get that for some people it’s worth being out of pocket in order to work and accrue future benefits such as pension and career progression. But if you have a shitty job that doesn’t offer those things there is no benefit in working if you’re not making cash in hand every month.

The childcare as shared expense versus weighed against lower earner absolutists are both wrong. It will depend on circumstances which is the appropriate way to look at it.

If childcare costs more than the lower earner would earn and the couple can't afford the difference, it doesn't matter how they split it. Only matters that they haven't got the money.

If they can afford childcare, it may well make more sense to think of it as a 50/50 cost rather than just measuring it against the lower earner's take home. Because there are other relevant factors such as staying in the labour market, not putting all eggs in one basket, pension and any career/wage progression that might be available.

They may of course still decide that even with these benefits in addition to the wages, they still prefer a SAHP. But the point is, there's no one size fits all when it comes to the approach to take.

I'm interested in this OP as I'm a SAHM too. My DH also gives me money every month, which I do pay the bills out of & food and like you have nothing left over for myself usually.
We don't even have a joint account so can't access money.

I've pretty much resorted to joining the "Earn £10 a day" thread to actually make money for myself. Luckily I've now got what I would say is a proper job, albeit from home, and it's contractor work, but actually looking forward to having some of my own money.

For me i think I would have brought £120 a month home if I'd gone back to work and we paid for childcare. I've always wanted to be a SAHM though, for a while atleast. Having a career has never been a big thing for me. I know it's a taboo on mumsnet but I'd much rather have the time with my kids, it's far more important to me

You have to be gaining something from working; not necessarily cash. You might choose to work at a loss to gain other long term benefits. But Sitdownstandup is correct - if you can’t afford the loss then you can’t work, end of. And if you’re not making sufficient gain from working then you might decide it isn’t worthwhile.

For me the main issue is that I still feel like it’s DH’s money. I feel awkward about treating myself even though he’s perfectly happy for me to do so. We don’t give each other gifts any more because I feel like he’s paying for his own gift from me.

I totally understand why a woman would prefer to be with her DC. This is completely natural. However, it’s vital that you shouldn’t feel restricted or patronised for this choice.

It’s not about your DH being generous or how much he decides to “give” you or not “give” you - it’s your money in the first place! It’s not his to give - you’re a married couple.

The point I was trying to make isn't so much about the practicalities of low incomes and childcare costs cancelling each other out but about viewing childcare as a shared cost. Not the woman's problem alone.Mostly about the perspective of it.

The sahp being at home should be looked at as a benefit to you both, not dismissing it as making no difference, which I think is the side-effect of seeing childcare costs merely cancelling out a low income.

I mean, when it works, becoming financially dependent on your spouse is fine and dandy, but if you both don't genuinely value the contribution of the sahp, then you end up with situations like this. Where the sahp is barely scraping by and feels awkward and guilty about needing more money. Yet with an 80K salary, OP's dh could make her life less stressful without blinking.

I also think it's kind of interesting that you often find the woman's allowance includes spending for the dc, their clothes and clubs etc come out of it, as though those are her expenses alone. It makes more sense to me to have three pots of spending money (should you be so lucky as to have pots to piss in), his, hers and children's.

Just a little update.

Everything is going in the shared account from now on. I will be claiming child benefit to ensure my NI contributions are protected.

Thank you to everyone for the advice and encouragement.

@cactusintherye I could have written your post myself!! I am finding myself in exactly the same position as you, it's like your hubby and mine are twins or something.

I'm so happy you came to a compromise with him, it gives me hope I can too...

@Pa1oma reading your posts made me a bit teary for some reason. I love my kids to pieces but yes I do feel like I'm taken for granted, I have personally lost so much of myself, not just financially, simply by deciding to have children.

My situation is abit more complicated as we've been living abroad for the past few years and are now thinking of moving back to London as he's fed up of the constant travelling. He works away from home all week and there is only me to be there for the kids until the weekend.I have a joint credit card so I can and I do use it if I need anything for the house while he is away. But I also find myself having to justify to him if I ran out of a skincare product or I needed something womanly

I worked part time two days a week on a low wage when we were back home in the UK. What I earned was basically my own allowance. He wanted me to work cuz he hated (and still hates) paying me anything. But to be fair, he would cover the complete cost of the nursery fees and absolutely everything else. I didn't have my own car but I paid for my own phone bill and my own needs like clothes etc..

We were both fine with the arrangement but I can see now how all that was wrong in the first place and how we got to where we are now.

Before I read this post I had initially sat down with him two weeks ago and made a list of our total outgoings per month to see how his salary is being spent. We live in a quite a big house abroad and have high bills, so I can see now that we end up with very little surplus so he is somehow justified in 'giving me SMP allowance' . Btw he is on the equivalent of also around 85k. Yes I do think I am worth more than he 'gives' me but only if we down sized.

But now that we are moving back, it's going to give me a clean slate after everything I have read on here. I will demand to have a joint account as well if I continue to be a SAHM. Otherwise he can opt to get a less paid job so that I can work as well when we get back and we both share the childcare and household chores. We also have a mortgage back home and he complains to me that he can't always give me my allowance on time until our tenants have paid him. Unfortunately it puts me in a vulnerable position financially as I have my own debt , (which yes, I probably wouldn't have gotten into in the first place we had both shared our expenses from the very start of our marriage like a normal couple.)

Before anyone starts slating me for my stupidity please try to understand I grew up in a very different cultural environment where women were not exactly 'expected' to be involved in household finances.

To be honest, he was never keen on me being a SAHM too after we had kids so I do feel the guilt that @cactusintherye talked about. It was my decision to stay home after having our DS2. But on the other hand I do realize now that he wouldn't have gotten to where he is now career wise if I wasn't there at home to take care of the DC.

The question is does he realize that as well because when I told him once that I have also helped him career wise he looked at me all funny

Sorry for font mashup, am writing this at a very late hour!!

I am surprised by some of these responses. People say £80,000pa is a lot of money but it's relative to the outgoings. You say you don't pay any bills so your husband covered everything from mortgage, utilities, council tax, broadband etc.

The fact that he gives you an allowance seems perfectly fair however if you are genuinely expected to pay for all the food out of that then perhaps that's a bit unfair. Does your DH eat breakfast at home or take lunch to work? If not then he could argue that most of the food is spent on you.

Obviously you resent being a SAHM so you need to speak to your DH about this. If you need more money then I would come up with a reasonable figure that you would like and be prepared to justify why you need that amount.

Your husband is saving money and not blowing it so he is obviously trying to be careful for the future. Do you go on family holidays or days out that he will pay for?

@Butterflyone1 yes you are correct that he is being careful and trying to save.

And yes he pays for days out and holidays (not that we go anywhere except our annual UK visits).

The allowance I get is only for me and my needs only.

Our outgoings are very high at the moment because we are living abroad and he is completely justified in giving me 'SMP allowance' even while on 85k.

I suppose what I'm asking is that if he refuses to have a joint account with me when we go back, then who gets to decide what is a reasonable allowance for the SAHP?

Is there a percentage that would be relative to the other person's income? Or should it be set allowance that never changes?

Am I forced to get a £2 for a rubbish haircut because he would rather save the rest of the other £23 on savings?? Surely It's not my fault that he can get away with cutting his own hair for £2!! He doesn't need to even buy or replace bras, while I do. So should I feel guilty for being a women?

Where do we draw the line?? I find it really hard. This is why I would rather go back to work and be financially independent.

@Butterflyone1 an allowance shouldn't be decided by one person. Women aren't children. A budget should be decided together and equal access to money on both sides.

We are like this. I have never really thought about it before as when I first stopped working I actually requested an allowance as I didn't want to loose my independence. I also didn't want to have to explain every purchase I made from a joint account to my husband. It feels a bit odd now that you have pointed it out though. We do have a joint credit card which my husband pays off the balance for and I use that for household stuff and for the weekly shopping. It does make me nervous about how I would access his money if something ever happened to him though.