WTF do I do? *Trigger warning*

[Twixtdevilanddeepbluesea]

I've name changed for this.

My brother is a paedophile, who is in prison and due for release in the next six months.

We've had a phone call from his probation officer this week about what happens after his release. He will inevitably end up living with my parents. Which is where the problem starts.

My mum has been very sucked in by his lies, and his victim complex. She has always seen him as a golden boy and is very much a head in the sand person, and relates his predilection to his MH issues, which is clearly rubbish.

Whilst I acknowledge he has huge MH issues (has attempted suicide more than once) I just want no contact with him. I don't trust him one bit, and never will. I am so angry with the hell he's put everyone through, I can never forgive.

He represents a threat to my kids and they are my priority but I'm stuck in the middle between my parents who want things to be normal and for me to accept my brother again, and me wanting to go NC. I can't because that'll mean NC with my parents, who deserve none of this, and my kids won't see them.

The kids will want to stay with grandparents like all kids do, but clearly can't whilst he's there so that's scuppered a big part of their relationship. My mum will be devastated if I refuse to let them go there, and I still have to have the awkward conversation with the kids to explain what's happened.

I have siblings who feel the same as me, but it's just such a mess. Doing the right thing will hurt innocent people, but I hate that I feel that I'm being manipulated and compromised. Whatever happens there's going to be fallout.....

WTF do I do?!

I would also be worried about your DM manipulating 'accidentally' meeting your DB outside your house or theirs if she's that blinkered that you're being driven to potentially going NC.
Even them visiting your house won't stop your brother 'just passing ', or seeing them on their way to or at school either.
It's a hideous situation and I genuinely don't know the best solution op.

We live 3+ hours drive away so it's mainly school holiday visits, but we've stayed over in the past and that'll have to change.

I'm not sure, I think my mum would be strong enough to say no but it's whether she'd get worn down.

I think you need to make it absolutely crystal clear to your mum that any suggestion from any quarter that your ex-brother might try and engineer some 'accidental' meeting would have nuclear consequences - that you would instantly report to his PO or the police if he attempted to make any contact - as you have NO desire to risk anyone thinking that you may not be able to protect your children from grooming/contact with a known paedophile.

So you let her know that the consequences of her being manipulated or 'worn down' by her son might well be him back in prison and possibly you having to cut contact with her for your childrens' protection.

I am quite sickened at the thought of them spending thousands to try and - presumably - get him off. I see how awful it must be for them but OP I imagine that that is also hard to take. Children of the ages their grandchildren are being abused, and your parents making huge efforts to try and make sure their abuser goes free? I would find that very, very hard to take.

Contact is easy though.

'No we won't be visiting, Granny and Grandad are going to come here this summer'
'No we won't be visiting. Granny and Grandad have their son staying with them now. He has been in prison and he isn't a nice man, they want to help take care of him, but he isn't allowed to be around children and we won't be going to their house until he goes away to live somewhere else.'

I think the idea Jenny70 has for how to explain the situation to your DC is a good way to go about it. The truth but not in any more detail than is needed.

I agree with most people on here that the main consideration is protecting your DC from your brother. As your parents live so far away they will thankfully not see them very often anyway.

Are you even sure that your B will be living with your parents? Couldn't he have his own place?

I feel terribly sad for everyone involved (except your bro). I'm sure it will be very hard for you all. Your poor parents must be so torn and it must be so hard for them to think they have created such a monster.

I have a mix of anger and pity for your parents. Having a murderer as a child would be easier (IMO) than having a paedophile. But my pity wouldn't extend as far as allowing them to put my child (or any child) in harm's way because they refuse to see the danger he represents, and that's where the pity ends and the anger starts. You are 100% right to tell your parents that you will not enter their home (with or without your DC) whilst your brother is there.

Your DC (at least the oldest) is probably going to ask why 'the rules' are what they are. And I think the older two are old enough to understand the 'simple' truth, that Uncle did 'bad things' involving children (or words to that effect) and because of that, he is not allowed around them anymore.al I know you will do your utmost, but you simply don't know if your brother may pop up at some other relative's house whilst you're visiting, or if your parents may take it upon themselves to force a meeting.

Due to a loophole (now closed) in the law in the US state we live in, a convicted child molester was allowed to live across the street from DS1's school. DS1 was about 7 or 8. We had a serious talk with him using simple terms to explain why if he saw this man on the school grounds he was to 'run and tell'.

TBH, having worked briefly at a unit for offenders, I'd seriously consider going NC with your parents, too.

The reason for that is that your DM will inevitably tell him all about your DC, show him photos on her phone, etc, etc. Next thing you know, he's got loads of information about them and, after some working on your DM to persuade you to let her take them out for a treat (probably by asking you in front of the children), he'll turn up and talk to them as though he knows them. If the photos on her phone don't show up in dodgy sites first, at any rate.

The threatening suicide is absolutely par for the course. It's what they do. and a lot of the staff at the unit had a sneaking suspicion that it would probably be better for everybody else if they actually meant to and succeeded.

If his name showed up in the papers, there's a good chance your parents' house will be targeted. And anybody known/seen around the place, including your OH and any other male relatives (including your father).

You need to act as one on this where your mother is concerned. It's him and only him forever, or it's a normal life with him in alternative accommodation well away from your children.

Do your parents realise that there may well be other complications having your brother stay with them? Once word gets out I am sure locals and friends of theirs won't be happy so there could be all sorts of hassle ahead for them. I for one would create holy hell if a paedophile moved into a neighbours house.

The fact that they are 3 hours away makes it easier for you. Tell them that they will need to come to stay with you if they wish to see you and the kids, and they are never ever to discuss your brother in your presence. Be very firm.

Your parents are 3 hours away. Not around the corner. ALL the children need to know is they’re coming to visit us. IF they ask why, simply say it’s easier for them or they want to visit our house. Uncle doesn’t need to be mentioned and would not be in my house. They can visit, but they are NOT to mention him at all. End of. IF they need to discuss anything it’s done away from the house while DH looks after the children.

There’s no need to make this complicated. It’s not. IF they want to see the children, they come to you. You NEVER go to their house.

IF in the future one of them NEEDS help and it has to be you, then you go and DH stays home with the children.

Don’t over complicate it by going to visit and staying in B&B’s etc.

And FFS why are you even thinking about taking them into the house when he’s there and sharing a room? That’s BEYOND insane.

He does NOT EVER get to see them. EVER. Urgh. Not even in fucking ski gear and fancy dress on top of that. No way. Never.

I'm not considering it, that was purely hypothetical.

I have left a message with the probation officer and will await their advice.

As far as I can see NC with him is absolutely best for my kids and that's what matters. And simplifies things in many ways.

Parent will have to start coming to visit here more often as in past I've nearly always gone to see them.

Its really awful to say but I do think he will commit suicide at some point and the only thing I would feel is relief.

If I was in your situation I would not hesitate to go NC with brother.

• never visit GPS house while he lives there or locally
• insist any photos of children be taken down/returned while he is living there.
• demand that no digital photos be shown or shared with brother
• tell parents never to mention brother to you or children
• threaten nc if parents try to manipulate brother to visit/bump into family
• don’t let your mum sweep it under the carpet. He has raped a child. Sounds horrible to say but the truth is horrendous
• tell children that your brother has been in prison and is very dangerous and that is why you don’t have contact. Tell them that if they ever see him out that they are to run away and scream and shout for help if necessary

I’d talk to siblings and I’m sure they will agree and meet as a family unit to lay out there rules before brother is released. I’m so sorry that you are going through this x

I've worked with paedophiles in prison. Most prison have some form of SOTP ( sex offenders treatment programme ) but I've seen many return once released and after re offending . I'm sorry to say this but I believe once a paedophile ,always a paedophile. He will always have an inclination to sexually abuse children. Your parents cannot keep an 'eye' out for him,living with them will not stop him. You are doing the right thing by never allowing your children near him.

I’m sorry but this would be a really simple decision for me. I couldn’t step foot in the house where your brother is living. I would not take my kids there at all. They can come to you. If they want to side with a peado then they have to face the consequences too. If there is a fall out because they don’t see why your kids can’t stay over when your brother is there, I would not trust them ever again. It’s just not worth the risk.

I completely agree with previous posters about keeping children safe. That is the absolute priority.

But (just being philosophical rather than practical for a moment) I’m also interested that not a single voice here is suggesting that it’s possible for him to have served his time and have changed: or be willing to change. it’s profoundly depressing that no one has the capacity to envisage any kind of redemption for this man.

I think you have to tell your children that your brother is not safe to be around, and that's why you're not going to be visiting your parents any more. I know they're young but you can explain it to them in age-appropriate language, and tell them that if your brother ever turns up they are to find you and tell you, and not be with him no matter what he says. It's far better to be honest, even if it's difficult.

And you're right in wanting no contact with him. Abusers can and will abuse children in plain sight of other people: it's not always obvious what's happening, and supervised contact doesn't prevent it. Stick to your guns. You are doing the right thing.

it’s profoundly depressing that no one has the capacity to envisage any kind of redemption for this man

I don't find it depressing at all. The recidivism rate for this kind of offence is high, because at the root of it is an urge which he can't prevent. It's not so much about the individual crime, it's about who he is. I think that he can be truly sorry for his crimes, but still be at risk of reoffending. I could forgive someone who had done this eventually, but I couldn't have contact with them.

And from a purely practical point of view, OP has to be seen by the authorities to protect her children, or be at risk of losing them. I doubt many people would take that risk, no matter how much they loved the offender.

If it were my brother I would tell my parents to cut him loose or I would cut them out of my life, not just the kids’ lives but mine also. Why he needs to live with them is beyond me. It would find it repellent to see my parents supporting the lowest of all criminals like that.

It's your mum/parents decision to not see their grandchildren - because it's their decision to let him live in their home.

He doesn't HAVE to live there, does he? Long term or at all. Where do paedophiles who have no living parents or none who'll put them up stay?

Alternatively, if they want to see their grandchildren, they can see them at your house, or at any other venue.

I haven't read the full thread as I am a victim of child sexual abuse.

But, have your mum and dad thought about the wider consequences to them personally from the local community for having a paedophile living with them?

Presumably your DP are aware that you won’t visit while he’s there? So they’re making a very hard choice for themselves.

I imagine all you can do is say your parents are welcome to visit the grandchildren but while hes there you wont be visiting them.

"Its really awful to say but I do think he will commit suicide at some point and the only thing I would feel is relief"

That statement really says it all in my opinion. This is not someone who gives a toss about anyone....your parents, you and your siblings, your children. I can truly understand your parents wanting to be there for him, although they are misguidedly enabling him. However, they sound the sort of people who will also understand what you need to do, and accept it. Unfortunately they are in for a world of unhappiness, albeit by choice. Don't allow your precious children to have any part in what will be a very unhealthy, fraught home. Let their grandparents enjoy special times with them in their own home.

In all honesty I think it's likely you're kidding yourself if you think the 11 year old doesn't already know exactly what's happened. I think it highly likely someone outside the family will have told them and even if not they're likely to suss what's happened and why they can't see uncle/go to grandparents house.

So you need to talk to your children ASAP. You may need to explain to the 11 year old that the other 2 are too young to be told the details yet and that while they will be told (whatever it is you decide to at an age appropriate level - personally I think honesty is best as otherwise as they get older they'll just feel you lied to them) they're not to be told anything else yet.

Your parents are NOT innocent, they are fully aware of the facts and they are making a CHOICE to support your brother. Choices have CONSEQUENCES.

I agree collaborate with your other siblings and present a united front to your parents that you will not be visiting their house, will not be exposing your DC to your brother, they will not be trusted to babysit and that this is because of THEIR choices.

I think it's possible at this point your dad may take a stand to some degree too (don't depend on it but he might) because he may be the one more likely to understand where you and the other siblings are coming from.

I've raised my dd in a similar situation. I'm a survivor of csa by my father, with whom I am currently vlc and have over the years at times been nc too. Dd has met him but she's literally never been even in arms reach of him and only ever in my presence (awaits flaming but I can absolutely assure you all he's not been a risk to her as he's extremely physically ill can't walk even, and she didn't meet him until that was the case. She's also always known in an age appropriate way that he is not a good person wit me gradually explaining why. Previously I was completely nc)

My mother didn't & still doesn't believe me. I don't and never have trusted her to assess risk wrt such matters and so she has never babysat dd, never been left alone with her. I've also been very strict on what photos and videos my mother has of dd.

It's caused a lot of tension over the years and of course means dd doesn't have a close relationship with my mum which at times mum lashes out about. I've always been very clear that she only had herself to blame because she refuses to believe me and chose to stay with him.

My siblings my bro has done basically same as me and my sis (while claiming also not to believe me) and has let mum babysit her kids, but never at mums house.

I couldn't prosecute as no evidence. My word against his.

I'm telling you all this because it feels to you like an immediate issue but it's not, it's a long term one. You will never be able to leave dc alone with your mum - that's the next 13 years you're going to have to enforce that. At least. It's a long haul and it's exhausting and she/they will try to wear you down!

They'll promise he's not going to be there, that they'll keep a close eye, that they won't leave the kids alone with him... But because they don't accept there IS a risk you can't trust that they'll stick to any of this. And abuse can and does occur under adult supervision.

Stick to your guns - I partly regret not completely doing so, not because anything untoward has happened but I do feel I gave in to pressure "he hasn't long left at least let him see dd before he dies" well he's still creaking on!

Dd is 18 now and has chosen herself to have nothing to do with him and vlc with my mum - absolutely her choice I have no problem with that whatsoever.

As a sort of aside, and as a bisexual woman PLEASE don't ever equate paedophilia with homosexuality again. It's NOT the same and it's deeply offensive to do so.

OP for what it's worth I am a probation officer and if I thought for one second a sex offender was in contact with a child it would be an immediate social services referral - no matter what anyone was saying - such as they were supervised at all times. There are strict conditions regarding residing in a property with anyone under the age of 18 etc plus whatever the conditions of the sex offenders register. The fact that the PO is ringing you as an indirect family member (is not someone he will be residing with) they are assessing the risks to your children. Listen to what they say and what they are advising. From a personal perspective - there is not a hope in hell he would set eyes on my children and I would do everything in power to stop it. Hope that helps