And now, something completly different :(

[Hugless]

Not sure where to begin, so let's move back in time a bit- say to 2004.

We met, it's been great, all blows and whistles, she moved in next year, all great, both busy working, I popped a question in 2007 (who knows why, just felt like something that was supposed to happen- she wasn't in any way pushing for anything). Got married in 2008, begun renting a house from a bank :), first child in 2009, second in 2011.
In the meanwhile I happened to be unlucky enough to be made redundant- it's been hell- trying to get Mrs Organic Waitrose/ Ocado/ John Lewis to get reality check and just reduce spending- as far as she was concerned it just wasn't possible. Explaining that we can not spend more than we bring in was just too upsetting for her(she was looking after kids). I tried to give in here and there but it was always too much to bear for her. After second child sex practically ceased to exist (It has been super extra phenomenal before and all of the sudden practically everything except penetration (rarely) was a big NO NO). Obviously, it was all my fault. Fair enough, to some extent I can now see mistakes I made but being down to earth person I just cant justify living above means.

Pour yourself one, there is more to come :)

I was more and more annoyed with everything, we started arguing, no fights or anything, just, let's say heated exchanges. 2013- reality check- £50k in debt, property in negative equity, marriage, eh what marriage...

2014- she moved on. I mean moved out. Not too far but still. So we are separated but how the hell are we supposed to be separated and also look after kids? Didn't have to get courts involved, all sorted out amicably. It's been a very strange experience- to me it feels as though we have separate bedrooms and marriage lacking intimacy...

Next 4 years have been patchy and weird- although we lived separate lives we still took kids on holiday together (separate bedrooms and so on) and we pretty much communicated one way or the other every day)

My friends are like "let's go to Amsterdam, they'll sort you out there" and I know they mean well but this just isn't my style...

OK, I see you are nodding off, so straight to the point, well almost...

My, well kind of wife (not sure if there is a term for this contraption but as far as law is concerned we are still married but not cohabiting) has a habit of requesting husband services (that do not require taking cloths off) on regular basis. Ikea furniture turned up, put it together will you, it's for kids (some of it,sure, most of it not). Sink blocked, help. PC has a virus, Alexa playing up, Internet not working, bulb in the bog blown, rubbish needs taking out, pick me up, drop me off, pick something up from somewhere, kids flushed a roll of TP down the toilet, sort it out, my oversized, overweight mattress needs turning and so on...

And now, if you are still conscious- WE are going places- "kids need holiday and since you have a car we need to go" places. So far I never said no but I've recently came across my ex's post's on another forum slagging me off for not contributing to this events- WTF. OK, I'm kids father but if she's organizing something that is in remote location she should take care of all aspects, shouldn't she, or am I politically incorrect? (was told off for suggesting a train before)I never refused but as far as I was concerned I was just a driver on £0 pay...

Still here? OK, nearly there.

We have run out of things to argue about some moths ago, our current situation almost perfectly fits "white marriage" definition. And I don't know what to do. When we are together, alone, she often refers to me as "husband" (generally whenever she needs something done that exceeds her abilities) but everywhere else I'm just an EX- a mistake she made...

She is a gorgeous woman, I find her attractive, she's mad as a broom stick sometimes and this isn't really helping. If this was a "friends with benefits" arrangement I could probably live with it and be happy- but it isn't...

OK, now finally a question- WTF am I supposed to do?? I'm living alone since 2014 and in a way find it OK- kids stay with me pretty much whenever they want, mostly weekends- she has never restricted access to kids and childcare is split more or less 50/50 but I just need a hug every now and then (read "daily")

Not going to beg for it- it was her choice to move out, I'd probably do the same if I were in her shoes. But ain't dead yet- and I love hugs...

OK, you look rough- thanks for reading. Have a little break...

You can do the odd bit of DIY for her and still get a divorce, you know. The two aren't mutually exclusive. For the love of God though, stop fannying about and get some stuff sorted. Get a divorce, and sell the house. Flesh out a 50/50 custody arrangement you are both happy with. Then get on with the rest of your life and be happy, and stop obsessing about your ex. I guarantee she isn't obsessing about you.

You do everything that she demands. When you attempt to erect boundaries, she accuses you of ”not caring about the kids” and ”robbing the kids.” She criticizes you on forums. You give in and continue dancing to her tune.

Hugless, this woman enjoys treating you with contempt. She is abusing and manipulating you emotionally, sexually and financially. You are allowing it, and on some level receive gratification from it.

You can stop this if you want to. @GloomyMonday and @FurzeandHarebells made lists of helpful suggestions.

OK so you've broached the subject.

Then at this point you just have to work away in private. You don't need her permission to divorce her and you don't need her agreement.

Guess what, you're never gonna get it. She likes (very much) having a handyman at hand. All the benefits of a husband without having to bother with him much, or like him much. So she's never going to agree and what's more, she's going to pull out every weapon in her arsenal to dissuade you.

And so far? It's worked a treat. Cos you broached the subject, but then let it drop in the face of her fury. So it's working for her.

So you have to do it in private. And yes, that means literally let it drop through her letterbox. But hopefully you can liase with your solicitor so that it drops on her letterbox some time you have the kids. So you can insulate them from her reaction somewhat, and get your reassurances in in person.

Otherwise you'll be used for a very long time to come I'm afraid.

Action. Action.
Ex benefits from this current arrangement and there's no incentive for her to change tack.

Fortunately for you, you can have peace. You can push back. Maybe seek mediation to support making a financial agreement. I don't hold out a lot of hope though, that you can work together, given your account of the dynamics between you.

I can relate to feeling stuck and in limbo. The only thing that will bring about change is action, assertiveness and firm boundaries.

Grab this opportunity. Live again.

It sounds like her accusing you of being a bad father is some trigger for you to roll over and play dead.

Have you tried saying ‘I’m sorry if you think me doing xyz makes me a bad father/abandoning the kids, but I can live with your bad opinion because I know it’s not true.’

Say it very neutral, no drama. And mean it.

OP, you say that you have had lots of chats with her but that she ends up accusing you of abandoning the children so you drift back into old habits.

Perhaps you just need to lay out your new rules and stick to them, ignoring her baseless accusations, in the knowledge that most people will dismiss any complaints she makes about you.

As pp have said, no one can do it for you can they? I get that you still love her and have clung to the hope of reconciliation but that won't happen so don't waste even more time.

Clear rules, enforced, followed by a letter from your solicitor will do it.

Pay what you should be paying, see the children consistently and reliably, make sensible co parenting decisions, be cordial, that's all that's required of you really.

I'll have a chat with solicitor next week, before I leave mention anything to her. I want to keep the house so it will be a little more complicated. I don't think she will be causing problems (ok, maybe I'm delusional). Time will tell...

The most important thing here is how do you feel about her. What exactly is she to you? I’m slightly baffled about what you think we can offer. Advice - sure. That’s about it really. Divorce is an option but it’s the nuclear one! No going back from that. Maybe stop and think about what you had in the first place.

You know you're a good father. Ignore when she says otherwise because it's simply not true. Let me tell you she's being an absolutely selfish cow treating you this way. Divorce and lead your own life with clear custody arrangements. Let her pay for a handyman and chauffeur when she needs one.

You just need to draw a line and move on. You say neither of you are originally from the U.K. - do you come from cultures where divorce is frowned upon? That’s the only reason I can think of to drag a failing marriage out like you are doing.

Right now she has a husband on call when she needs anything & 10k per year child maintenance with most weekends kid-free (you say). Sounds like this suits her just fine so why would she change that without you pushing her to?

You need to move on and the only way to do that is divorce. Upside: you’re a man and it’s much easier to date as an older man than it is as an older woman and you can always start a new family even late in life, unlike women, so no need to go round feeling that sorry for yourself, writing sappy tales of woe

No, nothing like that- we are both from Central Europe :)

So, dropped one kid off,other one staying with me, asked her for a favor- would you mind looking after kids for couple of hours tomorrow as I forgot that I need to attend a meeting? she got upset- why such a short notice, blah , blah , blah. I genuinely forgot all about it. I'd still have kids at mine for breakfast and dinner when I get back, then homework and all usual stuff. Fact, I don't have to go but going means meeting new ppl, so I try to attend whenever possible. I told her about it half an hour ago- so far got three emails with her expressing her annoyance. I replied to two of them and asked her to stop pestering me, not reading the third one...

OK, nuff whining. Thanks all for kind words and putting up with my unfunny and unnecessarily elaborate posts. I'll try to be brief in the future.

Also, I'm amazed that nick Hugless was available- I know, this isn't exactly correct spelling but still...

No, nothing like that- we are both from Central Europe :)

So, dropped one kid off,other one staying with me, asked her for a favor- would you mind looking after kids for couple of hours tomorrow as I forgot that I need to attend a meeting? she got upset- why such a short notice, blah , blah , blah. I genuinely forgot all about it. I'd still have kids at mine for breakfast and dinner when I get back, then homework and all usual stuff. Fact, I don't have to go but going means meeting new ppl, so I try to attend whenever possible. I told her about it half an hour ago- so far got three emails with her expressing her annoyance. I replied to two of them and asked her to stop pestering me, not reading the third one...

OK, nuff whining. Thanks all for kind words and putting up with my unfunny and unnecessarily elaborate posts. I'll try to be brief in the future.

Also, I'm amazed that nick Hugless was available- I know, this isn't exactly correct spelling but still...

Hugless, I totally agree that your ex is manipulating you by linking everything to the children and then claiming you don't care /are a bad dad when you don't play ball.
You clearly are in your children's lives, your ex will probably always view you as a bad dad as soon as you dont jump to her tune. She sounds very entitled. Do you want to live a new way now?
Your children will judge their own relationship with you as they grow, regardless of what she says, and particularly if you have a lot of contact with them.
My partners ex is the same, accuses him of being a bad dad, when he's really great. My ex is genuinely a 'bad dad', misses the fortnightly few hours he has DC on a regular basis, ignores on Xmas day, no financial support, but, guess what, I don't need to keep telling him he's a bad dad... And I don't need to tell the DC either... They are making their own observations.
So I would say stand tall in your relationship with your kids, ignore her criticisms, and know that, even if you find your ex aesthetically attractive, you will meet someone else that is great for you, and may have fun meeting a few not quite right people along the way.
And writing style... Well i'd rather this than massive paragraphs and no full stops or commas 😂you just can't win on mumsnet and there will always be some people who take issue with what you put/write/how you occupy your space.. Good luck Hugless.

Hugs to you hugless, you’ve wasted some precious time to date re moving on but you really need to get on with it now. And I for one like your writing style. Just remember that being self-deprecating and using humour to deflect only go so far. Sometimes you need to get real and this is that time.

[hugs] if you love her talk to her and try to work things together. If not go meet someone who will appreciate you xx

I actually really enjoyed reading your writing style, nice change to the normal bland posts, felt personal but sorry I'm too young to help I think, good luck though

Despite the negative comments, it does look like almost everyone is advising you to get to the lawyer and really talk it all through; get filing and get yourself free legally. She (the EX) will probably always call you for anything and everything, but at least you can get a legal framework in place and start insisting more about regular times, etc. And when she has the kids on Her time, she will have to make plans for childcare, etc. When it is Your time, you also cannot expect her to take up the slack for you. Some of this sounds like it goes both ways, and you will have to stop that. Good luck. You sound like a good father, mostly, and she is trying to take advantage. Drawing a line will be hard at first, and maybe even an ongoing headache, but you can do it.

Spent most of today putting together bits and bobs we have formally agreed in writing when she moved out.

Luckily for me I have a mediation centre just outside my work place, so will have a chat with them first. Will probably have to find one closer to where she is, as I don't think she'd travel to attend.

No point getting layers involved if there is another way.

I know I should have wrapped it all up sooner, I guess letting it roll was somewhat "convenient"- in a weirdest possible way. There always was something more important...

As to "negative comments", well, can't please everyone and I don't think that anyone has had a proper go at me, so all is well...

Since my totally silly, unacceptable and so on (to some) "writing style" has generated some interest and prompted some to perhaps think and comment, well do I really need to spell it out?

I spoke with ex about divorce several times in the past, she's up for it but for whatever reason she said she will not "apply" for it herself.

See how boring this is when you write it in "semi serious style"?

It's not boring. It makes you sound more sane tbh. And it's easier to read.

Have you thought about your level of emotional attachment to her? And how to manage/reduce that? You deserve better.

She probably doesn't want to pay for it.

It's not boring if you write normally. When you write in an affected manner, it makes it difficult to empathise and see where you're coming from emotionally. You don't need to hide behind forced humour - you're anonymous.

Having discovered the crap she wrote about me I came to conclusion that the only attachment is kids. Fair play to her she did tell me face to face most of the stuff she wrote, however she skipped several pieces of key info. She's a half decent person, so she didn't disclose any personal info but still- if she thinks my only purpose is to support her financially (well, not her, kids) and sort out whatever it might be she isn't capable of doing herself (like yesterday- bulb blew in kids bedroom, could you change it? F me, I did change that bulb, it was just easier than trying to make a point of any kind. Half an hour after I dropped the kids of a call- her. "run out of medicines, do you mind going to pharmacy few miles away to collect and bring over? Well, I do mind but if I don't I'm a total selfish knob , ain't I? And since she is looking after kids perhaps best for her to be in good shape. I went. It was a nightmare. After waiting for 30 minutes because her prescription was stuck in the system I nearly lost it. But did that.Don't want a medal. I think this was reasonable request. But changing blown bulbs is not IMHO- please feel free to correct me...
Never mind, this was brewing for years and finally the time has come to swallow.

This is what I was trying to tell you in my original post.

My ex and I have been split for the same amount of time. I would NEVER ask him to pick up my meds or sort out a lightbulb (that is completely pathetic). You are an adult. Start saying no. It gets easier and easier.

So you’re still running around after her, even after starting this thread?

@PolkaDoting
Come on, this isn't fair. This divorce has been brewing for quite some time. Yes, way too long and I guess we both got comfortable (to some extent).
The way I saw this yesterday was; well ain't doing anything and if I don't help kids will have no light in their room. So, simple flow chart- if I do change the bulb I'll leave, no arguing and most importantly, kids have light in their room.
Option B. I leave without changing the bulb. What a c**t...
Over the years I've learned to only fight battles worth winning. This isn't ideal, I thought her how to change a freaking bulb in the past.

I know, I'm pathetic. Well, that might be correct but I also miss HUGS and that is taking over...

Why can't she Change a bulb? Seriously? What stops her from standing on steps or a chair and unscrewing a light bulb and putting a new one in? I'm asking because we could all be helpless if we had someone we could just tell to do stuff for us , but in the real world we would get told to fuck off.

I'm really sorry op but you are starting to come across as a bit pathetic.

When she asked you to change the bulb you should have asked what was stopping her from doing it and why she thinks her time is worth so much more than yours?