"I don't have to put up with you being verbally aggressive"

[Fortunatelymine]

Dh cheated, I found out last year, and have been through the rollercoaster of emotions ever since. We are trying to work through it, but every so often I will ask him about the ow and his actions, and get angry. Not physically, or throwing things around or anything like that. He says I have an 'aggressive' tone (I'm not shouting, although I have done when first finding out, but quite cold and cross) and ask him to confirm how he behaved etc. I will tell him he behaved like a shit, is selfish...

He has had no consequences apart from my anger, arguments, some boundaries regarding interaction with others, and my reduced opinion of him. We actually do get on well a lot of the time, but every so often something will trigger my anger about what he did, or I'll find out some new little thing, and I'll have a go.

There isn't a single day since finding out that I haven't been upset by some negative thought or another related to his cheating. Yet unless I'm discussing it with him (and it's by no means every day now) he's dismissed it. So in my mind, it is totally fair that he put up with my being verbally aggressive towards him every so often, if I'm suffering because of his behaviour. How else am I supposed to work through it? And tbh I don't see why I should go out of my way to hide the pain he caused, or only be pleasant to him, when he created this situation. Is that unreasonable of me to think he shouldn't get off Scot free and be able to ignore my pain and anger?

I don't really get this at all OP, surely you realise that you've only just scratched the surface.

This man's a long term cheat and a prolific liar, he's only ever going to tell you the minimum he can get away with.

Agree with empa.
A lying, cheating bastard. I can’t see how a relationship with someone like that is ever going to make you happy.

Op you can't heal from a betrayal if you feel your H is still betraying you from ons to ow to dating sites.
It's a catalogue of betrayals
You can't force your brain to trust someone who has proven several times to be untrustworthy
This anger is mental torment
You want this poor excuse of a husband to be the decent man you wish he was
He just isn't
Deep down you probably feel he's betrayed you more while working but you lack further evidence.
This is no way to live
At some point you'll have to ask yourself what exactly are you fighting for: a selfish unreliable liar of a partner

5 months post finding out about a short EA that DH had called off and I can still get triggered and sometimes swear, though not often now, I generally say it was a bastard thing to do rather than direct it at him fully. I've not forgiven or moved on by a long shot yet. So I understand OP but from your further posts it sounds to me like your DH is a serial cheat. He may not have to put up with insults BUT for a caught cheat to be looking at dating profiles? He doesn't sound very contrite.

If you need to repeatedly punitively punish someone for a past misdemeanour, with no end date for the punishment, then I honestly pity your children.

Haven’t RTFT but actually I disagree with what seems to be the prevailing opinion. It’s right and proper that he suffer your anger. What he did rightly provoked anger (which exists for the protection of good things) since what he did was an assault on the relationship, something fundamental and central to the entire family’s life.

In time your anger will lessen- in time it is possible to recapture the trust and relationship you once had. It is that way for my mum and dad (he cheated on her). It took a long time to recover, but they did and are very happy today.

I think he deserves your anger- if he doesn’t think he deserves it, then he doesn’t understand why what he did was so terrible. That, I should think, is the bigger problem.

OP the onus’s is not on you to “get over it” or leave. The onus is 100% on your OH to help you heal. This book is written by a marriage counsellor with 30 years experience - they know exactly what the cheating partner has to do if the relationship is to survive. There are 17 actions/behaviours. Buy it, read it and then hand it to your DP - he will either engage or not. That is the only way that YOU will get over it - by HIM doing his part 100%.

Linda J. MacDonald M.S.
How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful

www.scribd.com/doc/65498163/How-to-Help-11-06-10-Final-PDF

This is a free PDF of the book. Good luck

No healing can never be on a other person 100%. No one is perfect 100% and you need to heal yourself as well.

Putting your feelings in the hands of someone else 100% is disaster waiting to happen.

"I want to be married to the nice guy I thought he was - the person he was for the first years of our relationship.

Sadly OP, I think this is the point. You've said it yourself - "the nice guy" you "thought he was" That guy was supposed to be a loyal partner to you, who wouldn't betray you in this way.

But he wasn't.
He did betray you, in the worst possible way.
He "road-tested" another model to make sure he bought the right car originally.

I think it will be impossible to try to rebuild your marriage if you continue to wait for the loyal and trustworthy man you thought you married to come back.

If your marriage is to survive, you need to try and reset your expectations. Even for a while. Try and decide whether or not you can live with the man he actually is, not the man you thought he was when you married him.

Because you cannot continue like this. It isn't fair on you. It is an absolute drain on your own sanity to rehash the details of his affair over and over again because it drives you to being verbally aggressive, however understandable your reasons may be.

Whatever happens, I hope you make the best choice for you and your family

It’s refreshing to see so many level headed comments from people gently pointing out that however upsetting being cheated on is, verbally abusing your partner is never okay. MN done right.

I think he deserves your anger

No one deserves verbal abuse. There is s difference.

Not so Boys read the book/pdf - this approach is recommended by highly experienced MC and endorsed by many more acclaimed experts in this field. It is quite “simple” the perpetrator is totally responsible for putting it right through sustained words and actions. But you are also right that if they don’t step up then it is over - but the victim will know sooner rather than later - there is no guess work or where the perpetrators head is at with this approach. It is then up to the victim to decide what to do from there. But the balll is firmly in his court.

@Fortunatelymine I'm very sorry he did this to you, but you sound so angry I'm struggling to understand why you stayed with him. Is it just to punish him?

Why did he have the affair? Was it just because he could (due to working away) or were there problems within the marriage anyway?

Are you not worried about him doing it again if he works away a lot? Is it this which is causing you to lash out? If you decided to stay together, I don't think giving him a mouthful every so often is helpful for either of you.

Either get couples counselling or get a divorce.

Jesus, "perpetrators and victims"

These are real people in a relationship. We can all find books that support one view or the other. Crucifying continually the person who cheated is seldom going to heal a marriage and making them pay by always having to subjugate themselves and their feelings to the other person is total bullshit.

And I'm curious op, do you understand why he cheated? Is he just some sleaze who would shag anything or did he feel there was issues in the marriage?

Are you ever going to trust him again OP? And if not, is it worth you staying? You say that after you found out about the affair you caught him trying to hook up with people again. Do you think he is ever going to change? Don't you think you deserve better?

another20 yep and plenty of people are acclaimed for awhile and the later dismissed.

Relying on other people for you won emotions and well being, 100% is setting anyone up for failure.

No one is perfect. Even if the intention is good, or actions arent always interpreted that way, or we miss the mark.

I don't care how great some people think this MC is. I feel she is wrong and relying on someone else to heal you 100% just isn't sensible, imo.

we haven't had couples counseling because he works away for the majority of the year

This has got to be a priority for both of you, surely, if you want this to be able to work.

OP do you keeping asking questions about the OW etc because you feel that you haven't yet got the whole truth? Because any relationship that genuinely survives infidelity is where the cheater does everything to make things work which includes total honesty. If your H isn't giving you that then your relationship is doomed to failure (and probably repeated cheating).

If however you're satisfied you have the whole truth then you have to decide whether you can get past this - you might feel temporarily better having a go at him but the wound is not going to heal all the while you keep picking at the scab.

Personally I don't think it sounds like he's making much effort at all - even if you genuinely can't attend counselling he could read any number of internet resources on the subject - no wonder you are still angry.

No one deserves verbal abuse. There is s difference.

And what does that look like in this context? Should she be a robot who speaks in a monotone saying “I am hurt and upset by your actions still. I am still looking for further reassurance from you because my trust is still so fragile.” Bonus points if you can make eye contact through the whole statement? Anger and abuse can look very similar but the context can tell the difference- is this part of a pattern to try to control and coerce him in some way? Trying to intimidate or manipulate him?

Or is she giving expression to right and just feelings of betrayal and humiliation and shame? Bewilderment that a core part of her identity had a big lie in it?

I should think that screaming at him, being cold or distant, swearing, even throwing things could fall under both categories. I should also think that it almost never in these circumstances (of betrayed partner to betrayer) is verbal abuse (in circumstances where the betrayer was already being abused I’d be more inclined to go the other way).

I still think the fact that he’s prepared to play the victim in this matter is the bigger issue. He needs to be told (unfortunately not by you) to own his shit and grow up cause he has to deal with the mess he made, which starts by acknowledging your anger and pain, without thinking that this negates his responsibility for that pain.

I would dearly love to be able to trust him again, but after putting my trust in him before (after ons), thinking he was trustworthy then finding out he wasn't, I think I'd be a mug to do that at the moment.
Maybe you need to shift your way of thinking entirely? I didn't stay with my ex, but I've had a couple of relationships since, and that has required a change in the way I see relationships. I accept the fact that my current partner could cheat on me. I do what I can to make the relationship good, and if that's not what they want, then they should be with someone else. I say this openly to my bf. If they stay with me, but see someone else to make up for some supposed flaw in our relationship, that says nothing about me, as I've made it clear that this is what I have to offer, and if you don't like it, don't stay.
My issue was more with the "blame game", however, as my ex blamed me 100% for his affair. Maybe you would have to make some different changes in your attitude to achieve peace in the relationship.

In myself, I noticed that I did not want to let go of the anger. Justified outrage put me in a clear moral position, which was great after he'd been depicting me as a horrible bitch. I clung onto it with all my strength :)

But recently I've been thinking about forgiveness in general, and how letting go of anger can simply be the only constructive way to make progress. If you want to make progress.

I don't think that a cheater should just be allowed to get away with it, without any repercussions. But your husband hasn't escaped scot free.

And what does that look like in this context

To be fair it's not repeatedly calling him a selfish bastard. It's one thing to want to make a relationship work, but irrelevant of who "sinned" it takes two to make a relationship work, and repeatedly abusing your partner and thinking he should just take it if he wants to stay married to you is misguided to say the least.

Trying to understand what caused the cheating, to understand both sides, to talk and move forward, to try to forgive, is the way forward. The op has already said she will never forgive him.

Whatever caused it, whatever the state of the relationship, expecting one person to be constantly and periodically abused as way of atoning, is not going to work and he's right, he doesn't need to take it, he can go, and she can, but for the pair of them to chose to stay together and him to be her whipping boy isn't a healthy scenario or one that will lead to a healthy marriage, he will simply grow to dislike her and resent her intensely. As much as she dislikes and resents him it seems.

OP, I do not think YABU. He was a selfish cheating bastard, what else are you supposed to call him? How dare he complain. He is the one who cheated and lied, he does not get to paint you as the baddie here. You need time and proper openness, honesty and genuine remorse from him to get past this. A year is nothing in that respect.

At the same time, it sounds like the trust is totally gone, OP, and I wonder if staying in the relationship is going to do you any good at all in the long run.

OP have a read of the book - it may bring you some peace. It sets out a clear, proven way forward.

He doesn't have to put up with your behaviour.
Just as you don't have to put up with his behaviour.