how can i get DH to treat DC and me with respect and love?

[frustratedwineaholic]

Hi, I am felling really stuck in my relationship. I want to end out marriage but I can't. He will not leave our house and I have been advised by a solicitor not to leave as then I will be unlikely to ever get back into our home or receive any equity from it. This is why I am asking for advice on how to change my husband. I know you can't really change people, they themselves have to want to change but I'm so desperate.

we have 4 dc, only the younger 2 are dh's. they are 12, 10, 6 and 4. DH is usually grumpy and always finds a way to suck the fun out of everything involving the dc. when we have a rare night off he is different, but mostly only if we are with friends. He hates being wrong and can never apologise. he tells the dc not to shout but then shouts at them, he never listens to them, just jumps to conclusions and unfairly punishes them by sending them to bed early, when when i attempt to calmly explain why they did whatever it was and he knows he has over reacted he will not back down, he just becomes angry and starts shouting at me. a few recent examples,
DS2 is like Jeckyl and Hyde, one minute he is the ost loving, cuddly little 6 yr old and he next he just seems to get this look in his eye and he is horrible, he spits, throws things, kicks and hits me and dc, tries to run away all because of the slightest thing like time to close he pet cage. This morning he got up early, he shares a room with DS1, DS1 is in the top bunk and DS2 the bottom, he took his pull up off (diagnosed over active bladder) and threw it at DS1 face then spat at him for no reason. I had an operation yesterday so still under affects of general anaesthetic and was call DS2 to stop, DS1 was shouting Mummy help, I got out of bed, held onto the wall for dizzyness and held DS2 hand puling him away, DH came out o the kitchen and sent both DS to time out, I got cross as DH is always picking on DS1 in my eyes and told him DS1 is not going to time out and DH shouted at me that he was shouting so people down the road could hear, I said he was calling for help as DS2 was throwing a wet nappy at him and spitting at him and DH starting shouting at me for having a go at him and threatened to go to work and leave me to it, it was 6am and DH was going to work late to enable him to do the school run following my operation. I just backed down as I know him well enough to know he would go off and leave me. I had aa major operation 2 years ago and couldn't walk easily or lift anything, he stormed off the following day after an argument and left me unable to eve have a cup of tea. Anyway, he as then in an awful mood, storming about, telling everyone off for the slightest thing, made my DD1 cry as he refused to get her a toilet roll from the cupboard as she should have go it herself before sitting down. in the middle of all this chaos DS2 is still being a total nightmare, he poured salt into the last of the milk so my DS1 lost his temper with DS2 and picked him up from the breakfast bar stool and roughly put him on the floor, DH went mad and DS1 bravely told him he has had enough of being blamed for everything, he said he wont be here later, DH told him he is going to bed early for his mouth.

I can't take anymore, I called a local counselling service to enquire about family counselling but I can't afford it.

Any advice gratefully received.

OP - this man doesn’t love you. These are just WORDS to reel to back in to manipulate, control and abuse you further.

Look at his ACTIONS not right now when he is pretending - list out all his behaviours. You have left before - how did he behave then to get you back - how long did it take for you realise it was wrong and for all of the toxicity to re-emerge.

This isn’t some star crossed lovers scenario where you it’s not what he or you want - but you need to do it for the kids - that’s delusional and fantasy - this is an abusive man and you have a sucidal daughter now self harming as a result - you need to tread v v carefully here and be clear what your priorities are and what the reality rather than the fantasy is.

Kids see and pick up on more than you know. Is it possible for you and her to get some one on one time?

Give her the space to talk about any concerns she has.

Let her know that she can always come and talk to you....no matter what.

The self-harm says to me that perhaps she is blaming herself for the split? This is COMPLETELY NORMAL, most kids do. Reassure DD that things are going to be fine, that she can come to you with anything regarding the split and you will be happy to talk it through with her and answer any questions. God bless them, she has wonderful, wonderful friends.

Boys (or any siblings) fighting seems to be the course of events. My two scrapped quite a bit it just seems to be part of growing up.

I'm so happy you put your foot down with DH. Him waiting by the car is the correct thing to do. Don't let your guard down quite yet with him though. Be strong within yourself as I know you can.

Remember that there is nothing wrong with a few tears (or even floods of them). They are not a sign of weakness they are simply a release, just as they release water through the spillway of a dam to avoid overflow. There has been more than one day in my life where the only thing that got me through the day was the thought that I could have a good cry once everyone was settled in for the night. Remember the old verse "Weeping endureth for a night, but joy cometh in the morning".

Just been looking up codependency, I think I may have this. Do any of you know much about it?

I don't I'm afraid, though I think I should find out....

Re dd self-harming. My dd started after we suffered multiple bereavements (7 in less than 3 years) and it was truly awful. Back then I'd heard of it, but that was all. IME worse than all the bereavements, I felt responsible and I couldn't fix it.

I think you can only ecourage dd to talk to you and reiterate that her home is her safe space - but if you promise her that then you really do have to keep him out. Remember how she felt at your old house? You have to make sure she doesn't feel like that is even a possibility in this house.

I must admit that I am wondering whether his staying over and her self harming are related? Do you think that's a possibility?

Unfortunately, yes. The basis of codependency is one person who needs 'saving' and another person who needs to be a 'saviour'. An example would be someone with a drug addiction with a partner who feels it's their responsibility to keep that person off drugs. Or someone with a MH problem who continually calls another person when they feel suicidal rather than contacting MH resources and that person rushes over to 'babysit' them.

In what way do you think you and (I assume) your H have a co-dependent relationship?

Have you thought about hysterical bonding?

I found This which it explains it quite well

DD doesn’t know about the weekend. She knows DH came over for birthday tea but that is all. They were away with their DF for the weekend. I spoke to DD about it on Tuesday evening, when we had some time on our own. She told me she did it because she doesn’t want to go to her DF house anymore, she didn’t want to tell school that’s why because last time she told them something about her DF they called him and he and her DSM got upset with her to the point where DD felt the need to apologise for her feelings. We spoke about the boys fighting and I reassured her it’s normal but it will get better once we all settle in. She seemed happy with that. She is adamant she doesn’t want to sleep at DF house. We went through this about a year ago, I got school involved and requested support for her and me in dealing with eXDH, we even had a CAHMS assessment but the psychologist found it was all due to her DF not making any effort with her. Since then her DF has had another baby, they also have a 1 yr old dog who they treat as a baby. DD said she feels it’s all about them, they have even swapped photos of DD and DS for baby and dog. I told DD she doesn’t have to go if she really doesn’t want to, she is afraid to tell her DF. I checked that it wasn’t because she is worried about leaving me, reassured her I’m absolutely fine, she said it’s not, she just doesn’t like it there.

I thought co dependant as in I’m always trying to help him form better relationships with DC, researching courses for him then offering to do it with him so he doesn’t feel “told” what to do. Always trying to manage his feelings. Looking at hysterical bonding though, yes that’s me! I’ve even done it in previous relationships. Not after being cheated on just after being treated badly.

Sounds like the issue with your DD and her DF and SM has been going on in the background for some time now and has come to a head with this cry for help. In addition she is also suicidal because of your abusive husband.

Looks like she had no safe place either at home or at her DFs poor thing. She needs to be your priority to focus on right now, providing her a safe haven. I am sure you will be able to do this and give her the attention she deserves once you are able free up the mental space currently given to over to your abusive husband. If you are still preoccupied, obsessing and hysterical bonding with him - then you need help to get you out of this head F so that you can be emotionally present for the children who really need you.

Yes definitely another20

I think I need some help but don’t know where to go for it

Have you looked at Freedom Programme?

I think I need some help but don’t know where to go for it

Frustrated - on one of your earliest posts you say that you are trained in domestic abuse recovery, emotional health and parenting. Can you access your professional contacts?

Woman’s Aid, Freedom Prograamme and Lundy Bancroft have been signposted you repeatedly from page one.

I'm not in the UK, but doesn't one usually contact their GP to get a referral for counseling?

After my divorce and a rebound relationship that ended badly for me I went to a counselor. She asked me what I wanted to accomplish and I said "I want to know why I pick such shit men and how do I stop!!!". It took almost 2 years of weekly sessions, but I did get my head on straight. I highly recommend it even if you have to jump through hoops to get it.

If that's not doable, google 'abused women support groups uk' and there are quite a few organizations listed. Remember that most organizations that say 'Domestic Violence' also offer support for victims of emotional abuse. I'm sure they'd have counseling resources for you.

I was reading about traumatic bonding symptoms, and some of them jumped out at me related to you, op. (Emotional abuse is domestic abuse too)

"- Obsessing about people who have hurt you
- Continuing to seek contact with people whom you know will cause you further pain
- Going “overboard” to help people who have been destructive to you
- Continuing to be a “team member” when obviously things are becoming destructive

- Continuing attempts to get people to like you, though they are clearly using you

- Trusting people again and again who have proven to be unreliable

- Being unable to retreat from unhealthy relationships
- Wanting to be understood by those who clearly do not care

- Choosing to stay in conflict with others, though it would cost you nothing to walk away
- Persisting in trying to convince people there is a problem and they won’t listen

- Remaining loyal to people who have betrayed you
- Being attracted to untrustworthy people
- Being forced to keep damaging secrets about exploitation or abuse

- Maintaining contact with an abuser who acknowledges no responsibility

Eh, italics failed in places.

You have done really well OP. But this is the time for you to research. Agree with Another20. Women on here are telling you how to get help. They have been in your scenario and have accessed help (me included). Please listen.
I can tell from what you are writing that as yet you don’t have a thorough understanding of abusive men, their thinking, their reasons for manipulation and hurt and control, and the reasons many women are attracted to them. It’s depressing but it’s true. Their behaviour is textbook. Our behaviour is textbook. You sound confused. Once you have properly educated yourself about this stuff you won’t be confused anymore and it will all become clear. It may be that you are afraid of reading this material because you are afraid to fully accept what he is. Push through that and just read it. It’s life changing stuff.

Here is the link to buying Lundy Bancroft Why does he do that? On amazon. It’s £8.64.

www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ref=plSrch&keywords=lundy+bancroft&dpPl=1&dpID=51a%2Bnsy6XVL&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1550212015&sr=8-1

Here is the link to the Freedom Programme online. It’s about £10 to access.

www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/

Please please please access these materials.

Still here, OP?

Yes category12 I’m still here.

I went out for a proper night out with a good friend on Friday night, drank lots of wine and cocktails and danced until our feet hurt! Had DS2 belated birthday party at the weekend and DD1 belated birthday sleepover Saturday night. DD2 has picked up a sickness bug and has been really unwell since Saturday.

@VioletBedframe you said it may be that I’m afraid of reading the books etc as it will confirm his abuse. I’m actually afraid of reading incase I discover he is somehow not abusive. Yes I am really confused still. I don’t want to use my professional contacts as I want to keep my professional and personal lives separate. I will look at doing the freedom program online though.

I am in contact with my university, they are being really supportive. I went in on Thursday as I was feeling stronger but ended up having to leave the room in tears when someone asked how I was.

I know DH has treated us horribly. I have no regrets about leaving him. I just can’t comfortably call it abuse. I suppose the women I have supported have been through so much worse, and I’m a previous relationship my ex was violent, I feel a bit of a fraud using the term abuse.

I’m glad you will read the material. You are not a fraud. You are a survivor of abuse and, as you may already know, as a survivor of abuse you are more likely to unconsciously end up relationships with abusive men. And that’s why reading the material is so important for you future. Read it as a survivor, not as a professional.
If you read Lundy Bancroft my tip is to use a highlighter pen and mark the sentences that ring true for you. Then you can look back at it later to remind yourself of why you are doing what you are doing and the type of man you want to avoid in the future. Both the Freedom Programme and Lundy Bancroft define different type of abusive men. Your ex may be a type or combination of types. Some abusive men are violent, some aren’t. Coercive and controlling behaviour is now illegal.

You are making progress frustrated - to be able to do all of those things for your DD and DS and go out and have fun with a friend shows real strength. Great news that you have gone back to uni - reach out to them and hang on to this future. You can access the professional resources rather than the individual professionals for DA.

What contact arrangements have you made with you exH?

I haven’t made any arrangements yet. He took DS out yesterday as DD was ill. He collected dc from school and nursery Friday and had them overnight. He is working abroad this week.

You could die from 1000 small cuts, and that's how emotional abuse works.

I try to keep the peace, I pick my moments to talk t DH about how he is making us all feel, he usually replies with something plausible and I am left thinking it is me.

My older DC tell me they hate him.

my 4 yr old DD sees me crying and cuddles me telling me its ok, she knows its because daddy shouts.

DH is a tyrant, he won't be working without me helping, I have helped plasterboarding, plumbing, painting, sanding down, he even knocked me out by dropping the tv aerial on my head whilst he was attaching it o he roof, I was holding the ladder. Everything I do is wrong or not good enough.

just this morning I asked him t get some milk on his way back from the school run as he had 30 mins until he had to be at work 15 mins away, he said he didn't have time and asked me to get up and make him a sandwich. he then came home with the milk so I thanked him, he left saying i had to lock the back gate as it is randomly open this morning and sort the washing out and put more washing on. I was just sat up in bed with my surgical stockings still on thinking what the hell am I doing here! I'm not even supposed to be left alone for 24 hours!

What is it, if it's not emotional abuse?

It really doesn't matter if other people have experienced worse. As per the listen up post, the only level of abuse acceptable is zero.

If you're not comfortable with the word, that's OK, you get to define your own experiences. But not using the word doesn't magically transform what he does into something to be tolerated or acceptable.

Just wondering how things were

Yes I was thinking of the OP too - hope things are going ok ...?