Married to someone with Asperger's? Support group here! (Thread 3)

[ChangerOfNameAspieThread]

This thread is for partners seeking to understand the dynamics of their relationship with someone with ASD. It is a support thread, and a safe space to have a bit of a rant. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
(ASD partners welcome to lurk or pop in, but please don't argue with other posters and tell them they are wrong.)

Some resources from the threads so far:
www.theneurotypical.com/effects-on-differing-nd-levels.html
www.maxineaston.co.uk/cassandra/
I've probably missed some, but will try to gather them later and put in a comment for the next thread!

Previous threads:
1st thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3281058-Is-anyone-married-to-someone-with-Aspergers
2nd thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3325419-married-to-someone-with-asperger-s-support-group-here

@moffa and @amicrazy carry on with your plans. It’s clearly the best for both of you.

I wish I had done the same thing years ago. But I was so exhausted already when the dcs were 4~5yo from what became clear was ME that I just couldn’t do it.
It took me years to first acknowledge it was ME and that I wasn’t lazy (thanks H!) and then start looking after myself to recover.

moffa I could have written most of ypeople ur post about H behaviour, incl the fact he left everything to me (wel he DID do bath time etc.. because he actually had no choice!). He just organised himself to never be at home instead. Start7ng by accepting a job that was taking him away from home on the month I gave birth to dc1. And yes he also was most upset when I said he couldn’t go away to the other side of the country when I was 39weeks pg with no family around at all to support me. The worst is that he still managed to make me feel unreasonable about insisting on that....

Queenie, DH works for a uni so sees a decent university as an absolute necessary whereas I am of the ‘you should do what makes you happy’ mindset with no expectations or demands. Fact is that DD is clever, top of the year in half her subjects at GS and probably will choose to go to university .... but that is her choice to make, not his.

These themes are staggeringly familiar, in fact I would say that the walls here only came crashing down when H stopped working away for 6-9 months of the year. His career choice allowed him not to take part in family life/marriage. He changed path in 2016 and things have deteriorated quickly since then because he can’t use not being here as a reason not to take part.

Well done Moffa. I am sure you will benefit from your counselling sessions.

Hi,
This is a highly supportive thread and I will certainly be dipping in and out. Another supportive forum for partners of individuals who are or may be on the autism spectrum is 'Different Together'.

I am aware that my second post may have been a little negative, so I would like to make it clear that there is absolutely no correlation, to my knowledge, between ASC and issues with parenting.

However, if anyone has concerns about the welfare of their children, for any reason, please consider being proactive.

Being proactive will mean different things to different people, because every situation is unique.

@moffa it’s very hard to admit to ourselves I think that it’s that bad, that we’ve put up with so much. I’m sorry you’ve had to go through this, your self esteem must be in tatters. I’m glad in a way that you won’t have the worry of childcare battles, however then you’ll have little support - have you family who could give practical childcare?

Thanks I have tried to talk to his mum and sister, but they are toxic, they exclude me from any events and would like to see me gone but DP keep the house and our child. They are a very insular and controlling bunch, and unfortunately enable DPs worst traits. Even DP admitted they are bullies towards me! They have pretty strong ASD traits themselves. DP said his mother was dutiful but ‘showed no love’, his sister treats DP like her own possession and is obsessed with our ASD son as ‘he is so much like her’ - but causes him a lot of stress as she is very full on and doesn’t keep him safe. It’s like having a whole family of Aspergers breathing down my neck! I cope by backing off.

I need to protect my kids, and this is probably the few places I can air this and possibly be understood. DP loves DS, but he can’t give them what he needs, I’ve had to deal and manage everything. Co parenting is not something I would relish, as I know I can relate to @blubberhouse - it must have been scary to have child protection involved.

I find it a bit upsetting that my post above was deleted. I don’t know why it was? Did I word something wrong?

I was trying to say that I took @blubberhouses point that not everyone is a bad parent just because they had Aspergers. However for blubberhouse and myself parenting is an issue that is affected. I can’t speak for others.

Oooh Pina what did you say?

I think my self esteem has taken a beating but luckily I have three things in my favour. Firstly, I have 2 delightful, funny DC who make me laugh & smile all the time. Secondly I have always maintained my own income (by luck and chance rather than design - H is tight with money so I’ve always provided beyond the basics myself) and thirdly, I exercise regularly and I think this has ‘helped’ the state of my mental health even though clearly I do need some help. H hates me exercising, well actually he hates the cost of it, although he’s been unable to stop me as I fund it.

I have also kept up with plenty of friends although I don’t live near them. I need to work on some local friendships but the opportunities are there.

I’m already dreaming of my little house where I live happily with my DC!

Pina - sorry to hear about your DP family. My H family are all very odd. Luckily I have a wonderful sister in law and we can laugh & joke together.

It’s exhausting - wishing the next two months away! X

Pina - I didn’t see your post but we know the aspergers police are always on high alert!

I skimread your post Pina and I wanted to come back and think about it and discuss the parenting points, as I have positive things to say about DH’s parenting... But I didn’t report your post and am surprised it was deleted. Would really appreciate an explanation too as to why. Have you asked MNHQ?

To be clear Pina - I didn’t think your post was reportable! But that was on a skimread. So I’d like to know what specially was against guidelines so as to be educated.

Blimey Pina. Sorry that happened.

DH and I have had a set to over parenting this week.

The idea (from here), of what DH’s intent is, has been transformative for me.I can now see that behaviour that felt controlling/abusive is intended to control his anxiety rather than directly control me. Helpful.

However, I spend a lot of time buffering between him and the DC. Almost interpreting really. One of the D.C. asked “Why does dad get more anxious than me when I’m stressed because it’s not helpful.”

DC had a test today that was really important to him, say a karate exam. I asked DH not to put pressure on him as D.C. was already stressed and as DC is anxious and sensitive the best thing we can do is keep calm and encourage him.

DH got so anxious about D.C. not showing us his practice that he said to me last night, “If it goes badly it is your fault because I haven’t been allowed to speak to him so it can’t be my fault.” I text him to say that was not a nice thing to say to me. I am trying to stay away from who is right and who is wrong (also from here).

Anyway, things were going a bit better and then suddenly the wheels come off. DH gets besides himself with anxiety and it makes me feel sick even though I know now that he isn’t necessarily angry with me (directly) but it sure as hell feels like it and it’s exhausting. I have to deal with what D.C. need and then with how DH copes or doesn’t. It’s like a double dose of demands all the time.

Hi everyone,

This page & related book might be of interest to anyone who is looking to save their marriage:

www.kmarshack.com/Books-and-Articles/Going-Over-The-Edge.html

Gosh I feel for you all so much!!! I have wanted to post a few times of late but didn’t as every single day I feel differently tbh. I am in a complete state of confusion. One minute thinking how intolerable this whole situation is and the next minute thinking.... oh love him! I’m such a bitch! Blaming myself for everything.
It’s when I read your posts about the children growing up that this really hits home for me. Don’t get me wrong, if I asked him to do something he would, sometimes begrudgingly and angrily but he’d do it. However, I did mostly everything alone. My social life went down the pan because I had a four year old, 2 year old and then twins! .... oh and a full time job and attended college. When I left the children with him there would always be issues. I would come home and he would barge out. Wouldn’t leave them with him for an evening out as wasn’t sure all of their needs would be met. He loves them all so much I know that but fulfilling their needs is a while different ball game!
When I think of big lifetime events that’s happened such as my grand-daughter and daughter being extremely ill and I had to TELL him to visit them in hospital, when my son was being bullied and I had to insist he help me sort it out etc etc etc it all makes me so upset. After years and years of keeping things as normal as possible for everyone, always defending his behaviour ‘dad is tired babe’ ‘daddy is busy babe’ etc etc it does take its toll on us. The little time I do have to myself I find that I am still trying to work things out in my head’why does he act like that?’ ‘Why does he think like that? ‘ why does he do or make me feel like that?’.... and the list goes on! Life seems so simple to me and all I require of him is to show some attentiveness, care, emotion, love. When I broach this with him he says that he does all of these things and I think he genuinely believes that he does.
He bought me a card the other day and wrote in there ‘you will never know how much I love you’ and as lovely as that is, the truth is that he is right. Although he feels he does love me in his own way, I will never know or feel that love 😢.
He is a complete Jekyll and Hyde. 50 percent your regular guy and 50 percent a horrible person.
I work with victims/survivors of domestic abuse and I know our experiences are very different, the outcome is the same. We feel neglected, rejected, unworthy, unloved and unloveable.
I cannot express enough how pleased I am to have found you lot. I have spent years feeling that even though marriages go wrong all of the time, there is something very different about mine. I have never spoke to anyone about it. Feels so good to read and talk to people who understand.
My h makes out he is sociable, invites everyone around for a bbq in the summer and then spends all evening on a separate table away from everyone, listening to his own old music and consuming massive amounts of alcohol, drifting into even more of a ‘world of his own’ whilst I entertain! 🤦‍♀️. When I raise this with him. He says he’s had a lovely night with absolutely no idea/consideration/care of how drained that I am.
I have spent years telling him that when our children or people visit that he needs to sit in the same room as them, acknowledge them and interact etc. He now does that so now I’m working on him coming into the same room when we (I) am looking after the grandchildren!
Wow! I only intended to write a short post but my brain was in overdrive (as usual) and I just ranted and ranted! God it does feel good to get it all out though! 😂 sorry if I have bored you all?
God I’m exhausted!
Keep strong everyone and most of all, keep being you. Love to you all xxx

Changerofnameaspiethread
I completely agree with post in regard to parenting. Exactly the same here! X

Hi everyone. I've finally put together the list of resources. Some have been repeated, or different pages from the same sites mentioned a few times. In these cases I've tried to find the most salient page from each site to give a general overview and provide useful, varied info. The rest I hope is self-explanatory!

RESOURCES FOR NT PARTNERS OF ASPERGERS SPOUSES GATHERED FROM THE THREADS SO FAR
General sites and specific pages (no particular order)

• Tony Attwod ; www.tonyattwood.com.au
• Maxine Easton www.maxineaston.co.uk
• Different Together: website and forum for partners of people with -Aspergers different-together.co.uk
• Families of Adults affected by Aspergers Syndrome www.faaas.org
• Kathy J. Marshack www.kmarshack.com/Asperger-and-Marriage.html
• Survey of Relationship Experiences of Neurotypicals in, or who have been in, an intimate adult relationship with someone who has, or is suspected of having, Asperger’s/High functioning autism. www.faaas.org/assets/survey-4-for-neurotypicals-results.pdf
• Effects of Differing Neuro/Developmental Levels on Neurotypical/Autism Spectrum Adult Relationships theneurotypical.com/effects-on-differing-nd-levels.html
• List of articles in English from Asperger Partner (includes child-rearing when a parent has ASD) www.aspergerpartner.com/articles-in-english

Books
A good book is one that does not expect the “NT” partner to do all the work. These books have all been recommended at some point in the threads, however, some do suggest the NT partner takes on the burden. Those books are included as they are also often useful, as well as the others, at explaining the interpersonal dynamics. Sadly we have not yet come across one that has saved a long-standing relationship, however, that may be because both partners need to work equally for that to happen...

• Between You and Me (Different Together) - 12 accounts from couples with a partner with Aspergers www.amazon.co.uk/Between-you-Personal-stories-neuro-diverse-ebook/dp/B07CLCHGR9/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=different+together+between+you+and+me&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1548282517&sr=8-1

• Marriage and Lasting Relationships with Asperger's Syndrome (Autism Spectrum Disorder): Successful Strategies for Couples or Counselors (Eva A. Mendes)

www.amazon.co.uk/Marriage-Relationships-Aspergers-Syndrome-Spectrum/dp/1849059993/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=eva+a+mendes&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1548282603&sr=8-2

• The Asperger Couple's Workbook: Practical Advice and Activities for Couples and Counsellors (Maxine Easton) – there are mixed reviews about this: ]]

• Loving Mr Spock: Understanding an Aloof Lover Could it be Asperger’s Syndrome? (Barbara Jacobs) www.amazon.co.uk/Loving-Mr-Spock-Understanding-Aspergers/dp/1843104725/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=loving+mr+spock&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1548450894&sr=8-1

Cheat-sheet: some useful concepts

• Ongoing Traumatic Relationship Syndrome (OTRS) is a trauma-based syndrome, which affects spouses, children and siblings of individuals who have social disorders such as Asperger’s Syndrome (AS) and high functioning autism (Hfa). OTRS is not a mental illness. OTRS is a normal stress reaction to ongoing abnormal interactions within an intimate relationship and family life. (more here: www.faaas.org/otrscp.html)
• Cassandra Phenomenon (CP) is a metaphor for the emotional and physical suffering to spouses and children of adult individuals with AS and high functioning autism, because spouses and children are typically disbelieved as they attempt to share the cause of their sufferings with others. Read more here: faaas.org/otrscp/ . (www.faaas.org/assets/final-salve.pdf)
• SALVE for NT Spouses: Support - Assistance - Listening to and believing - Validation - Education (www.faaas.org/assets/final-salve.pdf)

@Moffa I relate to a lot of what you wrote. I also have bought and wrapped my own birthday presents. Also baked my own cake and put my candles on so the kids could sing my happy birthday with DH there too. I am so excited for you about having April as a timeframe though. I imagine maybe it's a bit daunting? But it made me smile to see an actual month there! Congratulations on getting this far! :)

@Pina it's so hard when the in-laws also have (likely) Aspergers too. I'm in a similar situation, except luckily, sometimes at least, I live a long way away from them! They're actually really nice people though, very kind, I just get overloaded from the lack of emotion when we all spend a lot of time together.

DH left today to go skiing. On his own. He's done this before and I don't really like it because he likes to ski off-piste, but it's up to him (he knows I don't like it and why). So he's gone and I'm honestly relieved to have a bit of space. The kids and I danced tonight, sang, read a lot, watched TV, had music on loud during dinner. We had fun. But ticking away in the background, I'm also worried about him being safe...

..(didn't finish)
..and I'm sad for him that he doesn't have a big bunch of friends to go away with. Really sad for him (probably sadder than he is!).

@ChangerOfNameAspieThread you make some interesting points. I think it’s important to be really clear here though so there’s no misunderstanding (especially by anyone lurking!) -

As someone who read the post by @PinaColada1 I know it didn’t say anything categoric like “people with Aspergers have problems parenting”. It did say in effect though that the traits can cause issues when parenting. At least that was my understanding, and one I personally agree with.

I don’t agree that it’s a “not this category but this category” case in terms of which category of people have the problems. I also don’t agree that it’s the case that it’s children who are NT who particularly have the problems. Pina’s point was that her DP with ASD particularly struggled at times with her DC with ASD, which is also my personal experience, despite my DH being a wonderful and caring father. I don’t want to get into the details, but for a start, the noise that is generated when a child with ASD is having a meltdown can be very overwhelming from a sensory point of view, so if you have sensory issues (as I personally do), it can potentially be very triggering.

One of the issues for me in terms of it being very emotionally draining is having to ease communication between my DH and my dc1 at times because they are both being literal or rigid in their thinking and communication, or not communicating what they really mean and it coming out harsher, or not being able to see things from another’s point of view. It’s usually only an issue when they are both tired. But when that happens, like tonight, I find it hard work and exhausting having to head off potential disagreements at the pass,

Hello all. While it's okay to share personal experiences, and to seek support here, can we please just ask that you're mindful about making what could be interpreted as generalisations? There are many parents on Mumsnet who are autistic, and, as you have pointed out, may be reading these threads. Please do bear our Talk Guidelines in mind when posting.

Wow that is an amazing list! Thanks @changerofname! Very useful.

It’s just so nice not to feel so alone. Even though I’m also sorry it’s also so hard for many of you.

Many of you seem to echo my thoughts - that our partners are not mean, horrible people. However the effects on us are extreme. I think that is one of the toughest things for me, especially in the beginning. DP has always been so nice, so cheerful, such a good man in many ways. I fell in love with him. As we all did. And then when it all started to fall down around me I wondered whether I was just not deserving of love, or just a rubbish partner. It has shaken me.

This is a tough one @claramumsnet!

As this thread is about seeking support for our sharing of experiences together, there is bound to be talk of commonalities between us. The basis is our difficulties I guess because that’s where most of us are struggling.

I honestly don’t know why my post was deleted, as I was trying to make make the point that having aspergers doesn’t neccessarily mean bad parenting, however my experience in my relationship is that it is an issue. Maybe I didn’t phrase it well! That is quite possible. However being offensive to anyone is not what I meant.

I also recommended Counselling for Asperger Couples by Barrie Thompson.

@changer thank you for the list. I’ve copied it in case MN delete it.

@friendlygal for you. I do not know how you have coped for so long. I hope your DC and DGC bring you so much joy. My H has done very little childcare. If I go out for a run (1 hour max) by the time I get home he has to race out of the door.

@pinacolada I didn’t see your post but I think parenting is an issue here. H cannot identify with children and talks to them as if they are adults (they are 4 and 1). He won’t sit on the floor and play, he stands over them staring down. My DD has recently been doing birds as a topic at nursery. She pointed out a ‘crow’ in the garden. H said ‘that’s not a crow, it’s a blackbird’. They then had a very bizarre argument which he would not let drop all about the bird. He has to be right. He was right, but he cannot see that it isn’t necessary with a 4 year old. Eventually I had to say ‘maybe it’s a baby crow.’ DD keeps making me a bed on the floor in her room. I think she is already seeing the way H treats me is unusual.

I wasn’t sure if I’d get counselling on the NHS so I had emailed a private company who have therapists and counsellors specialising in ASD/NT issues. They called me yesterday. The initial session is £150 then it’s £110 per session. On average people have 10 sessions. I think it’s so expensive - there must be so many people who can’t get the help they need because of the cost. I thought it would be £60 per session and that was a lot! Luckily I have my GP referral now (which will be at this same clinic).

@box thank you for starting the original thread. I have found SO much comfort in these threads and writing things down is helping me to process the last decade in a different way when I can see the effect of the HFA. I have started a notebook as well so I can organise my thoughts ready for the counselling. It hurts to accept how deeply sad I’ve been for a long time. Luckily I have my DC who I just love and adore so my focus is very much on them and their happiness. to you all

Oh and when I say ‘when I go out for a run’ I should add that I went for one run in Sept, one in Oct and have been for three this January. Mainly my mum watches them if I go for a run but H did once.