friend just made an offensive comment - advice?

[loosenknot]

I have a close friend, who I have known since primary school. She has had an exceptionally hard time over the last three years and I have ltried to be supportive. The hardest part of being supportive is she doesn’t like dissent. SO while I prefer people to point out ways of looking at a situation, this makes her very agitated and I have to keep my mouth closed. She has fallen out with most of her friends.

Today we were on the phone and she was telling me about another friend she has fallen out with over money. I can understand why she is annoyed with her. I tried to put another view point but she got agitated, so, as usual, I kept my mouth shut. . She has never in all the years I’ve known her said anything racist. But she concluded the conversation by saying: " I’m sorry to say this, and I don’t mean to be offensive, but she’s being a typical Jew."

Now, the thing is, I am technically Jewish (i.e. my mothers’s family were all Eastern European jews, and that’s my heritage even though we’re three generation atheist with no cultural association). And I’m not mean, and nor are my family (who have hosted her for Christmas for the last decade - her family, I should say, have also been super generous to us). So I said, very mildly, 'actually I do find that offensive, it’s an offensive comment'. And she got quite cross and put the phone down on me.

She has since texted me to say she can’t deal with any conflict and she’s sorry she’s offended me and she just meant stereotypically jewish (and implied she wouldn't be coming for Christmas, as if I'd disinvited her, which I haven't). Which isn’t the point. I’m not even that offended personally, it’s just an offensive comment, in the manner of all racist comments.

I’ve written her a message explaining that it’s offensive precisely because it’s a stereotype: I’m not mean so does that mean I’m not a stereotypical jew? - and added that of course she should come for Christmas and it wouldn’t be the same without her. This happened recently with another comment about a friend who knowingly conceived as a single parent - she made quite a rude comment about this (because she hates the woman) even though I'm also in the same situation (and I know she doesn't judge me for it).

Not sure how to proceed. I’m certainly not going to loose a friendship over it, but I’m feeling a bit steely, like I'd like an apology.

Ignore busybarbara she is either a troll or she has some extremely weird views - see her previous comments on other threads.

I'm not sure why you have a blind spot about someone who has no friends because she is basically an unpleasant person.

Just a heads up: she probably won't come for Christmas and she probably will put it about you disinvited her.

It's PC gone mad isn't it, Barbara?

Can't even call someone a tight Jew these days eh?

It seems a very odd friendship if you can't raise something that has hurt you with her. She's basically saying she doesn't give a shit about your feelings, she has the right to say what she wants.

Apart from her being a raging racist, is that the sort of relationship you want to continue?

It's almost a case of what exactly the comment was being irrelevant.

The point is you enable her to be a nasty, bigoted piece of work!

Sometimes people have no friends for a reason - and it's not bad luck!

It doesn't matter what's happened to her there's never any excuse for being nasty, bigoted, self centred & controlling. I can't even understand why you want to be her friend.

Buzybarbara
And the peizefor the stupidest comment of the year goes to...

You have basically called her a nazi which is why she might be a bit miffed

You dont have to be a nazi to be anti-Semitic ffs. Maybe have a clue about something before you make an ass of yourself.

If you think insulting soneones cultural heritage is ok then you obviously dont understand friendship either.

Course maybe all your friends are rabid racists/bigots too?

Send your friend back to school in Coventry.

Your heritage doesn't make this offensive. It is.

You know, lots of people have horrible and unfortunate things happen to them, but they're not lonely. Unless your friend has just arrived in your town from the other side of the country, or abroad, or the unfortunate events led to many people close to her dying (which would be worse than "unfortunate"), there's a very good reason for her being lonely. You also don't have to put up with this.

And while you don't think she judges you, "I don't like single mothers/Jews, well apart from you, you're different" isn't exactly a compliment.

Wow. Your "friend" may have had unfortunate things happen to her recently, just like many other people. Doesn't excuse the fact that she's a nasty, bigoted twat.

As a previous poster has pointed out - the fact that you have distant Jewish heritage isn't what makes this comment offensive. It just fundamentally is, regardless of who it's directed at...

So OP, you stated that you're an atheist. So it's irrelevant what your heritage is. It doesn't mean you cant find something offensive, it's just relevant what religion your distant past relatives chose to follow.

As for being offended. NOTHING anybody says or does can MAKE you feel offended. You control your own emotions. Your friend didn't say something WAS offensive. You heard her words and DECIDED that YOU were going to feel offended by those words. Equally you could have chosen to feel a different emotion. But you chose to feel offended.

The reason I am saying this is because people have a tendency to misuse language and it distorts the truth of the issues being discussed.

Saying "I have chosen to find your words offensive", is different to saying "What you said was offensive". The former puts the responsibility for the feeling where it belongs, that is with the listener. The latter is just a blanket statement designed to create drama.

If words by themselves were offensive then those words would carry the same meaning for everybody and consequently every person hearing the words would fee exactly the same emotion and to the same degree. Obviously this isn't the case.

By saying somebody MADE you feel offended, you are saying that person has power over you and can manipulate you. Most people would not agree with that statement. But those same people are happy to abdicate responsability for their own emotions if the subject matter is considered "relevant" in terms of prevaling orthodox thinking.

A person might have chosen to find your friends words offensive, that's fine. You said in your post that you didn't find the comments particularly offensive. Which is also fine.

But you're wrong to say "it was generally offensive in the manner if all rasist comments". Because nothing is "generally offensive". There will always be somebody somewhere who agrees with the statement, however "offensive" the majority of people may CHOOSE to find it.

FFS some people are sensitive aren't they? Everyone seems to get so offended these days. It's the sad state of society that we live in.

Absolute bullshit, whodathunkit.

Racism and anti semitism have negative effects on people in the real world right now. People are treated differently and abused on the basis of their heritage and skin colour. Words are how this is expressed.

It's not bullshit. I didn't say there wasn't any negative effects due to racism. You didn't actually read my post did you?

What I said was that it's the individual who CHOOSES to find something offensive.

The effects of racism are an entirely different debate. Please try to stick to the subject at hand.

Whowouldathunkit, is it relevant whether the OP chose to be offended though? Her friend made a anti-Semitic comment, which frankly right-minded people should find offensive.
It's become trendy recently to criticise people for being offended by things as if they are snowflakes (I blame Stephen Fry), but I don't believe that people always 'choose' to be offended. Often it is an entirely instinctive emotion, based on what they consider to be right.

Be offended at her views if you wish, but you're not Jewish OP. There's no such thing as being 'basically jewish'.

There's no such thing as being 'basically jewish'.

Jews are an ethnic, not just a religious group. I know quite a lot of atheist Jews who would never question that they are Jewish. Children of Jewish women (not specifically men) are considered Jewish so if the OP can trace it through the female line of her family then she is technically (basically) Jewish.

So because she’s stroppy nobody calls out her shittiness?

She’s got you all where she wants you hasn’t she?

OP I’m not Jewish, to my knowledge have no Jewish heritage but I’d still call out anti semitism if I came across it. She’s a nasty piece of work, and she’s got a bloody sneaky way of getting away with it too. Tell her to fuck off

Racist and antisemitic views are objectively offensive and wrong. It's irrelevant if the op is an atheist or not. Words are how we share ideas and thoughts, they matter.

It's entirely the matter at hand, because the friend expressed antisemitic sentiments.

People do not choose to be offended. They just are offended, as Dahlietta says. They are hurt. The discrediting of the idea of 'offence' is part of a wider attempt to shut down debate at the moment in our society - the 'snowflake' thing. It's a ridiculous straw man argument. I feel embarrassed for anyone who uses it frankly.

And yes, you can be Jewish without being religious. This is basic knowledge.

Racist and antisemitic views are objectively offensive and wrong

Yes, this

Whowouldathunkit what a load of waffle. What the friend said was anti semetic. Would you try to explain away other racist/hateful behaviour?

Words matter. No point being all philosophically relativistic about it. If so, then we are basically endorsing that there cannot be any consequences for the speaker because the onus is on the listener.

There is no nuance in what the OPs friend. Very little room for alternative interpretation. She was either;

1. Using the fact the other friend was Jewish to insult her. In which case it is implied she thinks less of Jews
2. The other person isn't Jewish. She's using a negative stereotype of Jewish people to insult her.

I don't feel personally offended by the comment but I can see that they are "offensive" insofar as if I were Jewish I would be hurt and angered by those remarks. As it stands I am just angered.

Debating the semantics is pedantic and just looks like a very poorly veiled attempt at defending the antisemitic comment
Giving you the benefit of the doubt though it may not have been your intention to do so, and just some very poorly timed pedantry.

No chance. I couldn't be friends with someone as easily put out as that

Well I couldn't be friends with an anti semite @busybarbara so swings and roundabouts

It is offensive - and damaging.

I'm Jewish - not practicing - but culturally - I also work in finance - two independent facts about me. I'm also a lot of other things - an immigrant where I live - openly bi-sexual - I've had cancer. I'm surrounded by a very liberal circle of people - never in the past years when I have acted in ways that people don't like (happens to all of us) has anybody made the slightest comment or allusion to the fact I'm a gay sick foreigner - no jokes - no backhanded comments - however, I can't even count the number of times, people have said/commented with a casual smile when I say I work in finance - that of course I do because I'm Jewish or something or other to that effect. It's hurtful and leaves me reeling. It's anti-semitic and demeaning. Casual anti-semistism isn't a laughing matter.