Separating from Wife - complicated - I'll explain

[skylooper]

Hello everybody,

Forgive my username, I just made up the first random thing that popped in to my head that wasn't already taken.

I'm not entirely sure why I'm posting this, I guess I'd like other people's thoughts on what I'm going through. It's really messed up, but for those that stay with it, I'd appreciate your thoughts:

I'm a male in my 30's and have been with my wife for 15 years and married for 5. We have a 9 month old girl and this is our only child and we live together. I want us to separate and stay living together. All sounds reasonably simple, but let me just explain the full circumstances, in as concise a manner as possible...

My wife and I met when we were 16. I'd never had a relationship before. I proposed to her around 8 years in to the relationship. A couple of years after this she was diagnosed with a brain tumour. She has gone through a hell of a lot of surgery, treatments etc. and in essence has suffered from what's known as a brain injury. She has had to learn to walk, talk and live a normal life again. She can no longer drive because of the illness. She's now on annual scans, but last few years have been clear and things look up. She's pretty much independent now, just slower than she used to be and her confidence has gone and she's not really got a social life. I have been by her side throughout this whole journey and have played an integral part in getting her to where she is now. I’m not saying this to get any thanks or kudos, I just want to explain that it’s been a very difficult and emotionally draining journey for me as well as her. I have exerted a tremendous amount of effort in to rehabilitating her. Anyway, despite the illness, we got married and had a wonderful day. I felt so proud of her and was humbled at the progress she was making in her recovery. I managed to resume my university studies and got myself a decent job, and then we got a house together. Our life still revolved around my wife’s recovery and she was doing well. I had arranged for her to have regular private physio to try to push her along. She managed to go back to work part time, and we got to a point where we were living a fairly normal life.

During one of our routine appointments with the consultant, I asked whether she was still able to have children. I wasn’t sure whether all the treatment she’d had would have affected things and I also wondered about if the brain tumour was hereditary, and the consultant assured us that it was perfectly safe to have a child. This is where it gets a bit weird. I wanted her to have a child so much, because I could see that she was in a state of low confidence and maybe even depression although when I discussed it with her she would not admit this, and I thought a child would give her a boost and a reason to live and push herself forward. So, we had a child and she is now 9 months old and that is where we are up to. My wife is doing a great job looking after her, although she does rely on me a lot, but we’re getting by and our daughter is amazing and we are so proud of her.

All the above sounds lovely and inspiring, I hope, but I have been fighting an inner battle for years. I have not felt satisfaction in our relationship for a long time. When I look back to my proposing, I was working away at the time, and was very lonely, and I feel as though that loneliness and insecurity played a part in the decision to propose. That’s just a theory though. I obviously really thought that I loved at the time her otherwise I wouldn’t have made such a big decision. When I look back at our first date, we went to the park, and it was so awkward, we barely spoke a word to each other, but I’d never been on a date before, so I didn’t see this as anything bad. I thought she was really pretty and that’s all that seemed to matter. When I look at all the times we’ve been out since as a couple, it’s always been the same. It’s awkward, we don’t have anything to talk about and the conversation is very difficult. At home, we do our own things. I try but we are not on the same page. We are interested in very different things, we are intellectually on very different levels, emotionally as well. Every now and again I’d have these feelings that I wanted to break up, but because of how vulnerable she’s been post brain tumour, I’ve quickly put those feelings away in the back of my mind. The very thought of even starting that conversation made me feel sick to my stomach, knowing the devastation it could cause. We don’t have any kind of sex life and we live together as a parent and sibling might, I do a lot of the housework, most of the cooking, I am relied upon like a parent is relied upon by its child in SOME ways, not all by any means and that would be doing a disservice to my wife to say that, but I am relied upon more so than the “average” husband is shall we say. None of it is her fault, it’s just the facts of life. I have brought up our lack of sex on a few occasions, but she has stated that she is not interested in sex at all. Even when we conceived our daughter, it was like a chore, and was not a pleasurable experience, she just wanted it over as quickly as possible. Luckily it didn’t take many “goes”. I don’t feel any physical attraction to my wife any more and don’t feel any spiritual connection with her. I feel like she doesn’t “get” me at all. This is partly because I’ve been doing a lot of soul searching over the past few years and inward looking, and getting to know myself better.

I’ve constantly been filling my life with other things to try to fill the hole that I’ve felt. I’ve had countless different career changes, countless hobbies, always doing something but never finding satisfaction. I have bouts of depression that I manage to get through.

Recently, I had a very strong feeling rise to the surface that I had to tell her how I felt and that I wanted us to separate. I tried to let it dissipate like it usually does, but it just got stronger. I was so ill, I felt a huge amount of anxiety, and cried lots at the thought of hurting my wife. Several days ago I could bare it no longer, I’d tried telephone counselling to help but it only re-enforced what I had to do.

The strength I had to muster just to have a conversation with my wife is phenomenal. But I did it. I thought perhaps she might have felt the same, and could see what I could see, but she could not, she was completely shocked by what I had to say, and broke down, distraught, it was so horrible. Her family are now very angry with me, saying that I am selfish and how could I abandon her and that she will not cope on her own. I am not abandoning her though, I want us to live together still and bring up our daughter, just not as a married couple. I don’t think she fully gets what I’m trying to say. Since the conversation, things have calmed down and appear to have returned to normal, with a few subtle differences, like not linking when we’re out walking our daughter and not kissing each other. We used to kiss each other, but it was like it was a matter of course, not because we wanted to, we’d say “I love you”, but because it was habitual. I do still feel a kind of love for her, a love as though I still want to care for her, but not a love that partners would feel. It’s very hard to describe, because it’s unique isn’t it.

I crave to be able to be with somebody who understands me, who I can feel a real connection with, whom I can be physically intimate with, who I can share things and do things with, whom I can talk with and actually converse with. I don’t want this straight away, but given time I will find somebody else and try my very best to make sure this person is right for me. With my wife, she was basically the first girl that ever paid me any attention, and wanted me, and it was a really exciting time for me and the realisation of what being with a woman was like, amazing. She broke up with me a couple of times, the first I was devastated, but the second, I felt free and really enjoyed my time having my own space and dating other girls, but then she came back to me really upset saying she needed me back because she’d made a mistake and somehow we got back together, and I think that’s when the real mistake happened. I was weak, and was sad to see that she was sad, and wanted to end her sadness, but it wasn’t right looking back.

I am not seeking salvation, but it would be interesting to hear what other people’s thoughts are. Of course, there’s a lot more than what I have written above, and I’m sure I have missed important information, but the bones of the situation are there. I don’t know what it means in the long run. If I meet somebody else, then this would create a new dynamic, but at the moment, there is nobody else, I just need to feel free from pretending to be happily married and be able to be myself. I don’t know, it’s messed up, I don’t want any sympathy. I suppose I want to know if you think I’m selfish, if you think I’m doing the right thing.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Please feel free to ask any questions and I will do my best to answer them, if you are interested or if it would help you understand the situation better.

I think posters are being harsh on you here.

It sounds like a tough situation. I don't have any words of wisdom, but I hope that you manage to separate in a healthy manner with the least amount of hurt for your wife.

Marriage is tough, marriage with illness is tougher and marriage where there is no love is tougher still.

Whichever way you look at it, you only have two options: you work together and your marriage and rediscover what you used to have at least to an extent that you feel happy in you marriage or you move on.

Sadly brain tumours or similar often affects someone's personality and attitudes and a lack or reduction in their emotions is common. It's very sad. It's bad enough accepting this in older couples it's even harder when younger.

The way things are now, you have almost become a carer to your wife and you are craving a two way caring relationship. It's totally understandable.

Maybe the marriage can be salvage. Maybe that dependency that was created is not only her doing. Maybe she is much more capable that you and she thinks but you have settled in these roles that have become the norm. She got a real knockout and becoming more emotionally independent and self reliant might be totally petrifying.

Counselling might help, but you do need to prepare to accept that it might not and that you'll have to do the hardest thing in your life and move on, however much it will hurt and you'll have to battle with the guilt that results from it for some time.

Saying that, life is full of surprises and a seperstiin could turn out the best thing for her long term. Maybe it will bring out her fighting spirit and make her realise she is much more capable than she believed, hence making her feel more confident. Maybe she will realise that she can cope with being a single mum.

Sadly carers of people emotional needs are rarer considered. It is very hard for them too and whatever decision you make, you'll have to learn to focus on being the best ex husband you can be rather than letting guilt drive your decisions.

You deserve some proper face to face counselling before you make any decisions.

During one of our routine appointments with the consultant, I asked whether she was still able to have children. I wasn’t sure whether all the treatment she’d had would have affected things and I also wondered about if the brain tumour was hereditary, and the consultant assured us that it was perfectly safe to have a child. This is where it gets a bit weird. I wanted her to have a child so much, because I could see that she was in a state of low confidence and maybe even depression

Children are not a solution for anything, certainly not for depression. I don't think my DH would be asking the brain tumour consultant about having children if I was still recovering and not able to cope.
Long initial post aside it's unfortunately common for men to find they're out of love when they have young children.
If you are unhappy leave, give your poor wife a chace to rebuild her life surrounded by people who do love her, not pity her.

You need solo counselling. The bit about wanting her to have a child to help her suspected depression just annoyed me for it’s sheer stupidity and knowing you were compatible at the time, makes it even more stupid/ cruel.

You do get a say in ending your relationship but you don’t get a say in how she’s supposed to take it. Living together but separated is a terrible idea and is a suggestion to appease your guilt. Being separated will have an obvious impact on your relationship dynamic even though it may not change dramatically practically speaking.

I’m not downplaying the sacrifices you’ve made in this relationship but it appears that your issues of incompatibility have very little to do with her health issues. Don’t compound past bad decisions, by creating a new one. Despite your attempts to sell continuing to live together as for her benefit, it really is for yours. Yes, your wife will find it difficult and willl continue to need support but what you are suggesting is the creation of a dynamic that could do her more harm than good.

You do not have a crystal ball and have no idea what the future holds once you’ve unshackled yourself from the responsibilities of a romantic relationship. I suspect your ‘nice guy’ selflessness won’t be so prevalent when you find someone you are more compatible with.

Physically separating yourself from her is the kindest thing you can do in the long run, even if it’s not the easiest for you in the short term.

Seek solo counselling because there’s a lot to unravel about your choices and decisions that need addressing so you don’t continue to make them in the new relationship you develop with your wife and that of a new partner.

I’m still aghast at how incredibly naive bringing a child into this was and it shows a distinct level of immaturity and irresponsibility. Your gut has been telling you shit for years, it’s time you learnt to listen.

I find it odd that 9 months after she has your child, you decide you want to bail.

You've have multiple opportunities to leave over 15 years but you didn't. You even married her 5 years ago. You didn't have to do that.

So are you saying you've been in this sexless relationship for 15 years and just now you want to leave?

I hated sex with my first partner who I met at 15, but we stayed together for a long time because it was my first love and we didn't really know any better. We're still friends but my god, if we were still together with a child in the mix it would be a disaster so I have some empathy for you op. You were really, really young when you met and maybe you have made some bad decisions and brought a child into a loveless/sexless marriage but it is what it is. Pp have made good suggestions about counselling, which should really help both for you personally and for, hopefully, making the separation a bit easier.

Interesting how we react differently depending on who is the person who becomes more dependent. Quite a few would live with children or parents with extra needs, but we seem to act differently with partners. Fewer people talk of a ‘loveless’ parent-child relationship. Is our love for partners more conditional? If you want to be kind, Try to go at her pace and don’t get into a relationship yourself until she is settled in her next one; or stay with her. Good that you are going to counselling though - sounds like a tough situation.

Sounds like you want a medal for being a husband to a wife with an illness. I can't get past the fact you had to in your words "force" the issue of sex in order to have the baby that YOU talked her into. And now 9 months after your baby was born you want to leave. What a shit you are.

That poor woman. Poor, poor woman.

I’m still aghast at how incredibly naive bringing a child into this was and it shows a distinct level of immaturity and irresponsibility. Your gut has been telling you shit for years, it’s time you learnt to listen.

Absolutely agree with this. Your poor wife, as if she hasn’t struggled enough already, you’ve now ‘given her a child’ because you think it’s in her best interest (and from your OP, her best interest is something you’ve decided for her, to suit you) and now you want to complicate another life by having your cake and eating it.

In five or ten years how will you explain to your daughter that you live with her Mum but have relationships with other women? Is that the example you want to set for her? How will you or your wife ever be happy? Are you going to ask your future partner to move in with your ex-wife and your daughter?

Grow up OP and do the hard thing you’re avoiding. I think you’re being incredibly naive full stop.

You seem to be getting a lot of judgement and approbation for 'breaking your vows' or whatever but you only have one life, you don't owe it to your wife to be her carer forever and the marriage is absolutely dead so time to end it.
You can't stay living together. If she can't care for the child full time then you will need to take that on, with her getting the family (and professional?) support she needs to share care.
It will be painful but all marriage break ups are painful.

You said you have OCD with regards to cleaning. Maybe it is affecting your thinking about your relationship too? www.intrusivethoughts.org/blog/13-signs-might-relationship-ocd-rocd/

I don’t think it’s helpful to call people a ‘shit’ who come on here asking for relationship advice.

Quite a few would live with children or parents with extra needs, but we seem to act differently with partners. Fewer people talk of a ‘loveless’ parent-child relationship. Is our love for partners more conditional?

Yes of course it is

Spandang Have you ever been a carer to a partner who has a disability? I assume you haven’t because if you had, you would never judge anyone in the same position. It’s incredibly difficult.

On a strictly practical note, can you afford to move out and live separately, OP? Because after reading your comment about your career or rather lack of I'm wondering if continuing to live in the house suits you not because you want to look after your wife and child, but because you don't have the finances in place to live alone?

Because you should move out, now. You've clearly checked out of your marriage mentally and physically and there's no going back on your part, so your wife needs to crack on with learning to cope being a single parent and getting in place the practical support she needs to look after her baby. I suspect she'll manage a lot better than you think she will. If she can overcome a brain tumour, she can overcome you leaving.

I think posters are being harsh on you here.

I agree.

I don’t think it’s helpful to call people a ‘shit’ who come on here asking for relationship advice.

And with this.

Men and women sometimes have kids when they really shouldn't. It's not much different than abused women continuing to have kids... and complaining.

Considering how felt, having a child wasn't right... it makes a split more complex...
And just 9 months after the baby is really bad timing....
but we are where we are and you shouldn't have to stay in this marriage.

Much better to split while your DD is young.

Early in your relationship she came back to you when the grass wasn't greener for her.

I do think the sex issue is a big one. You've not even said she used to enjoy it.

Some men don't realise a woman needs to be sexually stimulated...or aroused and that foreplay gets her in the mood.... that she needs to be wet before they penetrate.

Sex with someone who doesn't do it well is not something a woman will look forward to.

It is a personal choice
Either you a) break the marriage vow or b)you choose to try to stay and work on it
You have to tap into what YOU want
Some think you should do a)

Some b)
But ultimately none of us are you and what you do must be what is right for you

OP, I would suggest you get some counselling for yourself. Alone.

You sound like a decent bloke that’s overwhelmed.
From the outside looking in, I don’t think the problem is the relationship, you mentioned searching for new jobs, hobbies etc, and feeling like something’s always missing.
And you do what we all do, ‘blaming’ it on our nearest and dearest.

Sorry to sound all armchair psychology, it is something I’ve always dismissed. But could your soul searching be some sort of childhood trauma?

We’re programmed by our parents/society to be altruistic, empathic etc. That, at some point, comes head to head with our expectations. And if you’re not selfless, pleasing others, surely it must mean you’re the bad guy.

Maybe it’s just a simple case of: what do YOU want.

I'm a bit confused, you say you need to be around to help her out but in another post you say all you would really need to do is cook a dinner so she doesn't eat microwave meals? Sounds to me like you want to stay for your own reasons, like you have a fear of the unknown, you want to stay in this companionship (that comes with a carers allowance) with your wife until such time as the next lady comes along. Will you stay looking after your wife and child after you have found a new relationship, of course you won't.

You can't have your cake and eat it OP, don't string your wife along, you'll have to leave the marital home if you want a separation and don't for gods sake propose to take her 9 month old off her 50% of the time.

Is our love for partners more conditional
I think it's to do with the sense of responsibility you automatically get when you become a parent and you are then expected to have towards your parents when they become frail. You don't expect to become responsible for a partner though, you expect equal support and share of responsibilities. Also with children and children, there is an element of limited time which is much shorter than with a long term partner who you expect to spend the rest of your life with.

I can understand why you'd have thought that having a child was a good idea OP. Firstly it was a celebration of her getting better and contemplating resuming the normality of married life. It was also an opportunity for her to regain confidence and that sense of responsibility. If she could be so for another being, maybe she would require less for herself.

Also I expect you went into 'saviour mode' when she was diagnosed and that came naturally for you. You didn't question it. What you probably thought at the time though was that you could be strong for her until she was better than all would get back to normality. It's natural you would have thought that.

The reality is that being strong for her and by that putting her needs before yours, you've exhausted yourself, hence now desperately needing some caring and attention yourself. The prospect of having to put your needs on hold to support hers for the rest of your life must be a a ary prospect indeed especially as you have zom uch more to experience. I expect changing your job and realising how much you were giving to it and getting little back made you face that the dynamics are similar with your marriage.

What makes it harder is that you don't know how much your lack of confidence, disinterest in sex, needs with responsibilities is a result of the brain tumour, becoming a mum (which is very hard and can take more than 9 months to adjust to), or her just not being happy in your marriage either.

You don't need to live with them if it's just food you're concerned about.

Can your DW cook?

I am an awful cook and it takes me twice as long as DP. And I eat bland uncooked food a lot because I hate cooking. But I can cook. I just prefer not to. If I had a child I would be able to cook for them. I would probably still opt to just eat beans on toast or whatever myself.

If your DW can do most other things then I am wondering if you need to cook for her. Do you? Or do you because she could do it herself but it's a bit difficult so she chooses not to as she is happy with her crisps?

Even if she cannot cook I'm sure you could still easily arrange a meal delivery service or between yourself and family just drop by some frozen food to be microwaved once or twice a week. It certainly doesn't mean you need to be living there 24/7 as a chef.

Are there other things you haven't mentioned she can't do independently? If so, then as a PP said perhaps you are more of a carer than you previously realised and you need to get cracking on some formal support for her post separation. Lots of people live happy independent lives with a little help from a support worker or similar with the bits they find more difficult to manage. She can decide whether this gives her more dignity than relying on her ex-DH....

Eventually of course she may meet someone else happy to do these bits and bobs and assist with your DD, you will also need to come to terms with that possibility.

Counselling sounds like a sensible first step

Quite a few messages to reply to here so I'll do my best. The financial situation is that I have a full time job now (a new one, same pay) and my wife is on maternity and wants to go back part time, maybe a couple of days per week while our daughter goes to nursery on those days.

A lot of people seem to be suggesting that I've forced my wife to have a baby but that's not the case. When I said I really wanter her to have a baby, it is because she had told me in the past about wanting a baby, and we had agreed that I would ask the consultant about the baby possibility so I asked, and on the car journey on the way home she was really excited about the possibility. In messages like this, the tone can come accross wrong, I don't mean to sound like a self-interested person or some kind of martyr, I don't want any sympathy for my caring duties that I fulfilled glady and happily. Thing is, you might be right, maybe I do get some sense of importance from my caring duties (or did, because I don't really care for my wife any more), but I certainly don't think that.

When I mentioned OCD, perhaps that was the wrong description, what I mean is it stresses me out when the house is a mess, so I like to try to keep it tidy. I don't go around turning all the tins of beans facing the same direction or anything like that, and it doesn't have to be pristine, but I'll take a look at the link you sent to me.

Also, my choice of words probably wasn't right, in using the word "force", it wasn't quite like that, it's hard to describe, but we were doing it out of necessity. I know I have had friends that were trying for a baby, and they have not found it enjoyable, but have had timers that tell them when to have sex, well that's what it was like, I don't mean "force" as in physically force myself upon my wife, I would never do that.

I'm not saying I've been in a sexless relationship for 15 years, when we first got together we had sex all the time and it was amazing, then gradually, as I'm sure happens with lots of couples, the sex started to become less frequent, but a few years ago, it came to a point where sex wasn't a pleasant experience any more, for either of us, but now she says she doesn't have any sexual feelings.

I have taken on board the suggestions for both relationship councilling and solo councilling. I have an appointment with my GP tomorrow morning so I will ask if I can be referred for some solo councilling. We are going to go see relate together in the new year.

I'm not seeking approval, I'm just trying to explain how it is in my mind. I have not found another person. And I perfectly understand why my inlaws are angry with me, however upsetting it was, they are within their rights to feel like this, and I don't blame them one bit. Maybe I am struggling with being the bad guy like you say, I've always tried to do the right thing, and now I can ruin other people's lives for my own needs is difficult to accept.

I don't think I'm always reasonable and logical, I am human and know I'm imperfect and not the altruistic person perhaps I think I am, else I wouldn't be having this conversation, I agree that I've made bad decisions and maybe I've made them for selfish reasons.

I've got the message from you guys anyway, thanks for your honesty, my plan of action is to:

Talk with my wife
Solo councilling
Relationship councilling
Try to think more about what's really going on in my head
Not throw everything away straight away
Try to figure out if our relationship can be saved, and if it can, work on it, but if it can't part company, in a time scale that suits us both
Try to be honest with myself

Thank you

I feel so sorry for your wife.

I feel sorry for your child, whose life it seems was brought into this world not because they were much wanted and loved by both parents, but because you decided it would be in your depressed, brain injured wife's best interests. I haven't seen you say that you also wanted a child, and that you've considered her needs.

I feel sorry for you too, but I do feel conflicted over that.

Be careful that this isn't grass is greener syndrome. The grass isn't always greener. It's a shame neither of you experienced anything else before opting to stay with each other. What if you break up and it turns out the only reason she's not interested in sex is because the only partner she's ever had is pretty awful at it?

I'm pretty sure you've rewritten history to suit your current opinion on the state of affairs. 16/17/18/19 (etc) year old you always had choices. You have always until now chosen to stay in relationship with your wife. It can't have been shit the whole time, I simply don't believe you.

You've looked after your wife through a horrific trauma and you're still wanting to make sure she's okay. Those are laudable things.

You're unhappy in your relationship and want out so you can have sex with other people and try on relationships with other people for size. Nobody should be tied into a relationship they don't want to be in. But what a fkn pity you didn't decide this at some point in the 8 years before you married her. Before you brought a baby into it.

Please get you and get booked into counselling. Proper, several sessions, counselling. Separately, and ideally her into somebody who is experienced with brain injury AND relationships.

Cross posted with you.

Go private for counselling - your situation warrants finding specialists who are right for you both. Or maybe one of the brain injury or mental health charities can help.

Best of luck with everything, I hope for a least painful outcome for all three of you.