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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Separating from Wife - complicated - I'll explain

122 replies

skylooper · 21/12/2018 23:14

Hello everybody,

Forgive my username, I just made up the first random thing that popped in to my head that wasn't already taken.

I'm not entirely sure why I'm posting this, I guess I'd like other people's thoughts on what I'm going through. It's really messed up, but for those that stay with it, I'd appreciate your thoughts:

I'm a male in my 30's and have been with my wife for 15 years and married for 5. We have a 9 month old girl and this is our only child and we live together. I want us to separate and stay living together. All sounds reasonably simple, but let me just explain the full circumstances, in as concise a manner as possible...

My wife and I met when we were 16. I'd never had a relationship before. I proposed to her around 8 years in to the relationship. A couple of years after this she was diagnosed with a brain tumour. She has gone through a hell of a lot of surgery, treatments etc. and in essence has suffered from what's known as a brain injury. She has had to learn to walk, talk and live a normal life again. She can no longer drive because of the illness. She's now on annual scans, but last few years have been clear and things look up. She's pretty much independent now, just slower than she used to be and her confidence has gone and she's not really got a social life. I have been by her side throughout this whole journey and have played an integral part in getting her to where she is now. I’m not saying this to get any thanks or kudos, I just want to explain that it’s been a very difficult and emotionally draining journey for me as well as her. I have exerted a tremendous amount of effort in to rehabilitating her. Anyway, despite the illness, we got married and had a wonderful day. I felt so proud of her and was humbled at the progress she was making in her recovery. I managed to resume my university studies and got myself a decent job, and then we got a house together. Our life still revolved around my wife’s recovery and she was doing well. I had arranged for her to have regular private physio to try to push her along. She managed to go back to work part time, and we got to a point where we were living a fairly normal life.

During one of our routine appointments with the consultant, I asked whether she was still able to have children. I wasn’t sure whether all the treatment she’d had would have affected things and I also wondered about if the brain tumour was hereditary, and the consultant assured us that it was perfectly safe to have a child. This is where it gets a bit weird. I wanted her to have a child so much, because I could see that she was in a state of low confidence and maybe even depression although when I discussed it with her she would not admit this, and I thought a child would give her a boost and a reason to live and push herself forward. So, we had a child and she is now 9 months old and that is where we are up to. My wife is doing a great job looking after her, although she does rely on me a lot, but we’re getting by and our daughter is amazing and we are so proud of her.

All the above sounds lovely and inspiring, I hope, but I have been fighting an inner battle for years. I have not felt satisfaction in our relationship for a long time. When I look back to my proposing, I was working away at the time, and was very lonely, and I feel as though that loneliness and insecurity played a part in the decision to propose. That’s just a theory though. I obviously really thought that I loved at the time her otherwise I wouldn’t have made such a big decision. When I look back at our first date, we went to the park, and it was so awkward, we barely spoke a word to each other, but I’d never been on a date before, so I didn’t see this as anything bad. I thought she was really pretty and that’s all that seemed to matter. When I look at all the times we’ve been out since as a couple, it’s always been the same. It’s awkward, we don’t have anything to talk about and the conversation is very difficult. At home, we do our own things. I try but we are not on the same page. We are interested in very different things, we are intellectually on very different levels, emotionally as well. Every now and again I’d have these feelings that I wanted to break up, but because of how vulnerable she’s been post brain tumour, I’ve quickly put those feelings away in the back of my mind. The very thought of even starting that conversation made me feel sick to my stomach, knowing the devastation it could cause. We don’t have any kind of sex life and we live together as a parent and sibling might, I do a lot of the housework, most of the cooking, I am relied upon like a parent is relied upon by its child in SOME ways, not all by any means and that would be doing a disservice to my wife to say that, but I am relied upon more so than the “average” husband is shall we say. None of it is her fault, it’s just the facts of life. I have brought up our lack of sex on a few occasions, but she has stated that she is not interested in sex at all. Even when we conceived our daughter, it was like a chore, and was not a pleasurable experience, she just wanted it over as quickly as possible. Luckily it didn’t take many “goes”. I don’t feel any physical attraction to my wife any more and don’t feel any spiritual connection with her. I feel like she doesn’t “get” me at all. This is partly because I’ve been doing a lot of soul searching over the past few years and inward looking, and getting to know myself better.

I’ve constantly been filling my life with other things to try to fill the hole that I’ve felt. I’ve had countless different career changes, countless hobbies, always doing something but never finding satisfaction. I have bouts of depression that I manage to get through.

Recently, I had a very strong feeling rise to the surface that I had to tell her how I felt and that I wanted us to separate. I tried to let it dissipate like it usually does, but it just got stronger. I was so ill, I felt a huge amount of anxiety, and cried lots at the thought of hurting my wife. Several days ago I could bare it no longer, I’d tried telephone counselling to help but it only re-enforced what I had to do.

The strength I had to muster just to have a conversation with my wife is phenomenal. But I did it. I thought perhaps she might have felt the same, and could see what I could see, but she could not, she was completely shocked by what I had to say, and broke down, distraught, it was so horrible. Her family are now very angry with me, saying that I am selfish and how could I abandon her and that she will not cope on her own. I am not abandoning her though, I want us to live together still and bring up our daughter, just not as a married couple. I don’t think she fully gets what I’m trying to say. Since the conversation, things have calmed down and appear to have returned to normal, with a few subtle differences, like not linking when we’re out walking our daughter and not kissing each other. We used to kiss each other, but it was like it was a matter of course, not because we wanted to, we’d say “I love you”, but because it was habitual. I do still feel a kind of love for her, a love as though I still want to care for her, but not a love that partners would feel. It’s very hard to describe, because it’s unique isn’t it.

I crave to be able to be with somebody who understands me, who I can feel a real connection with, whom I can be physically intimate with, who I can share things and do things with, whom I can talk with and actually converse with. I don’t want this straight away, but given time I will find somebody else and try my very best to make sure this person is right for me. With my wife, she was basically the first girl that ever paid me any attention, and wanted me, and it was a really exciting time for me and the realisation of what being with a woman was like, amazing. She broke up with me a couple of times, the first I was devastated, but the second, I felt free and really enjoyed my time having my own space and dating other girls, but then she came back to me really upset saying she needed me back because she’d made a mistake and somehow we got back together, and I think that’s when the real mistake happened. I was weak, and was sad to see that she was sad, and wanted to end her sadness, but it wasn’t right looking back.

I am not seeking salvation, but it would be interesting to hear what other people’s thoughts are. Of course, there’s a lot more than what I have written above, and I’m sure I have missed important information, but the bones of the situation are there. I don’t know what it means in the long run. If I meet somebody else, then this would create a new dynamic, but at the moment, there is nobody else, I just need to feel free from pretending to be happily married and be able to be myself. I don’t know, it’s messed up, I don’t want any sympathy. I suppose I want to know if you think I’m selfish, if you think I’m doing the right thing.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Please feel free to ask any questions and I will do my best to answer them, if you are interested or if it would help you understand the situation better.

OP posts:
skylooper · 22/12/2018 00:33

I think I might have miscommunicated the baby decision. I knew she had wanted a baby prior to the illness and we had had discussions about having a baby during the illness but they were surpressed discussions because I think we were both scared that this might not be a possibility. I asked the question during a consultation, because my wife did not want to ask, and the consultant said it was okay to have children. My wife then was very excited about having a child and it was the first time I'd seen her motivated for years and I was so happy that she had some drive and therefore I fully supported her decision. At the time, I was not thinking for one minute that we would have the baby and then I'd pack my bags and leave. I feel like she's got to a position where she's now strong and independent enough to cope without me as her partner, and maybe deep down in my subconcious that's why these feelings to separate came back so strong, I genuinely don't know.

The comment about my career, I'm not sure what I said that was different, but I've been trying lots of different careers over the years, trying to find satisfaction, but never have. It's like I'm constantly searching for something in a career and maybe the reason I can never find satisfaction is that it's not the career I should be looking at. I don't care about earning lots of money, I just wanted to find something I felt satisfied doing, but nothing works, and I wonder whether it's the relationship that I've been trying to compensate for, but nobody can ever know can they.

In terms of who has main caring duties, my wife is breastfeeding and out daughter would need to her with her mum, but I'd happily care fore my daugter, but I know how much my wife loves being a mother, and I see how much it gives to her, I dont' think she would want to not be the main carer, but all my assumptions so far have been that we're going to stay living together, but lots of the posts here are suggesting that won't work, and I don't know whether it will or it won't, I understand it wouldn't if either of us found new partners, and I certainly wouldnt' want her to be tied down and not able to find somebody new as somebody suggested above.

I really value all of the comments on here, the supportive and the critical, it's allowing me to get a balanced view. Some of the comments hurt and some make me feel like I'm not an evil monster, and they're al valid. I know some of you think that it's a really stupid situation I've created, and I honestly have not had any malaise when doing this, and have done with with the best intentions.

OP posts:
Bowchicawowow · 22/12/2018 00:37

deepwatersolo Whether it’s subconscious or not you re saying that the OP wanted his DW to have a baby for bad reasons. I don’t see it the same at all. Seems to me they were both trying desperately to improve their relationship by having a child which is a mistake a lot of people make. I have been a Carer for a partner and believe me when I say that you would try anything to make your relationship work, no matter how crazy it may seem to outsiders. This dynamic in a relationship throws up so many difficult and challenging problems. Anybody in this position has my sympathy.

deepwatersolo · 22/12/2018 00:41

Right, being the primary caring (nursing) mother of a 9 months old makes one more independent. Just not independent enough to not cohabitate with the ex.

Look, I am sorry if my comments are hurtful, but I frankly don‘t think you are honest with yourself, here. I‘ll leave it at that.

azulmariposa · 22/12/2018 00:46

My wife is doing a great job looking after her, although she does rely on me a lot...

You are the child's father. It's called parenting, and something you should be sharing. Your wife shouldn't have to be relying on you to do it, you should be doing it anyway.

You say you are relied upon more than the average husband, do you mean the stereotypical 50's husbands who go out to work, come home and have dinner ready for them and not have to lift a finger around the house? Cause not many women would let you get away with that nowadays. You think the grass is greener and that with someone else you'll have an easy ride and not have to help out round the house? Well you'll be in for a shock. Oh but wait... you want your wife at home while you are out getting your kicks.
If you want to leave her, then actually leave.

CarolDanvers · 22/12/2018 00:47

What a load of navel gazing twaddle. Leave her quick and let her find someone who isn't such a whiner and can support her as she needs to be.

skylooper · 22/12/2018 00:49

I would never want her to have a baby so she's "tied down" or "trapped" or anything like that, I think I was in denial about my unhappiness at the time we made this decision, I was exhaused with everything that was going on, all the doctors appointments etc. and I thought that a baby would make everything better. I genuintely thought that. I thought it would give her something to live for, a purpose in her life again, and it really has, she's come on leaps and bounds since we discovered she was pregnant. I know having a child is hard work, but it's hard work that's very rewarding. The comment about a 50/50 child care routine is another really good idea and one that we will discuss amongst everything else, such as is separation really the right thing (I think it is now, but like some people have pointed out, maybe I'm not in the right frame of mind), and what's really going on with our sex life.

I also see why some people have said that I must be doing the wrong thing sex wise but it's not that, and I'm not just saying that out of some egotistical reasoning. She's openly said to me she's not the least bit interested in sex, she doesn't think about it, doesnt' masturbate, she doens't like the idea of sex. She said to me that even before she was ill she didn't like sex and that didnt' surprise me, because I remember when we did have sex, she just wanted it over as soon as possible. I used to ask her what I could do to make it more pleasureable for her, like does she want me to do things a certain way, I tried to really find out what I could do to make it better, but she would just want it over with. I know we could go further back in time and maybe find a something that happened that put her off sex with me, maybe I did something wrong (I'm not exactly vastly experienced...). I tried lots of different things to spice things up, but none of them worked. The sex is only a side issue, honestly, I hardly ever even think about sex these days. I don't watch pornography, I hardly even masturbate and usually it's only because I get "reminded" to by a wet dream (nice, I know). Pretty weird saying things like this to a group of people I don't know.

And I don't mind any ear bashing, bring it on, it can't make me feel any worse than I already do, but I appreciate every single comment good or bad.

OP posts:
skylooper · 22/12/2018 00:54

I don't mean a typical 50's husband, I just mean more than if she hadn't have gone through her illness. I expect to do my share of the housework. In fact, I'm more of a clean freak than she is, so I am a bit OCD with making sure things are tidy and clean etc. Housework is not an issue at all, I only mentioned that because I was trying to make the point that she would have a disproportionate amount more to do if I wasn't there and she might find it difficult.

OP posts:
skylooper · 22/12/2018 00:57

But as I have also said, maybe I'm not giving her enough credit.

OP posts:
Bowchicawowow · 22/12/2018 00:59

I do more housework than my DP too. It’s not because I am a fifties housewife. It’s because I am a carer. As I have already said, people who have not been in the position can’t grasp how different their lives are to people who are carers.

ScienceIsTruth · 22/12/2018 01:03

I've been in a similar situation, and I did leave. That was 18 years ago and I still feel guilt over it though.
His personality changed after a brain injury, and I became more like a parent to him as he was left severely disabled. After 10 years I knew I couldn't go on, so I left . I don't actually think he's aware, or even remembers me, most of the time as his memory and memories were severely affected.
Only you know what's right for you. Having children complicates things though.

AornisHades · 22/12/2018 01:10

I had more sympathy for you until you started on your work issues. It sounds immature tbh and now you want your wife and child to be living with you while you chase the illusive job and shag that are worthy of you.

skylooper · 22/12/2018 01:12

I've never thought of myself as a carer, but I certainly was now looking back, and possibly still am to a small degree. I suppose there's a spectrum of caring and as she's improved, I've moved further up the spectrum and now it's minimal. But there are more aspects to caring than just physical things such as getting people dressed, it's the subtle things as well. I don't really see myself as her carer now though, I think she could manage, with difficulty, without me but it would be a big strain on her.

ScienceIsTruth - that's really sad, and sorry you still feel guilt, you made what you thought was the right decision, and that's all you can do can't you. Fortunately, against the odds, my wife's brain still seems to work more or less how it used to. Her personality has changed a little bit but not a lot. Her balance was affected but even that's pretty much back to normal now due to physio. Her confidence is the main thing that's been knocked and her ability to drive. You're right though, our daughter complicates matters very much so, but regardless of anything else, I love her more than anything and despite this tricky situation, I'm so glad she is here, she is a gift.

OP posts:
skylooper · 22/12/2018 01:16

AornisHades - there's more to life than "shagging". As I've said, that's just one element. I'm not going to be suddenly going clubbing and trying to sleep with women. It will take time for me to come to terms with it as well. With regards to the career, I know that there isn't a perfect career, but what I'm saying is that it's possible that my constant dissatisfaction in my life is relating to my unhappy relationship. It was only a hypothesis. It might be a load of rubbish. And also, I don't know whether it was coincidence or related but I only had these thoughts after I'd finished in the job, and I don't know if that's because I had space to think without thinking about the job, or what, but anyway, yeah maybe I am being immature.

OP posts:
Bowchicawowow · 22/12/2018 01:17

Is it possible that both you and your DW are suffering from depression?

skylooper · 22/12/2018 01:21

Certainly yes, I know I have suffered on and off. I go through patches of it, but it only usually lasts a few days, and is also infrequent. I don't know about my wife, I've asked her but she doesn't know, I will make sure we talk about this in the councilling sessions. I think I'm going to have to get to bed now anyway, very tired, thank you to everybody who has commented. I have a lot to think about don't I. Best wishes all.

OP posts:
butterfly56 · 22/12/2018 01:35

Your wife is a very vulnerable brain injured adult who needs a lot of care and assistance.

You thought you could would "fix her" and that it would be a good idea for her to have a child. So you convinced your wife it was best for her.
Now that you realise that your plan has not really worked...

You have put your brain injured wife through all that pregnancy and motherhood entails and 9months in when she has now got a little baby who she is trying to look after as best she can you have now decided to destroy her world by telling her you want a separation and you're surprised at her reaction?!!

My word you do think an awful lot of yourself.
I hope you actually leave her alone and move out so that she can be cared for by people who actually love her and can help her take care of her and her child.

SD1978 · 22/12/2018 01:53

I'm sorry. I'm trying not to judge you. However the tone, and mild condescending tone to your writing really rubs me the wrong way. You strike me as the type of person that feels they are always reasonable and logical, and really can't see how anyone could ever find you in the wrong. Except you probably frequently are. You can't tell her it's fine but you'll stay there as a unit, but will be actively looking for a 'proper' relationship. Do her a favour and leave. She's probably stronger than she has been given the opportunity to be and she deserves better.

SandyY2K · 22/12/2018 02:28

It's a difficult situation. I see you both as inexperienced in relationships and that may be why the sexual side doesn't happen. Getting together at 16 is young.

Does she have an orgasm during sex?

You've been reflecting and aren't happy...nothing wrong with that. You didn't make a big deal about her not wanting sex or her wanting it over quickly....so she thinks you've accepted it.

I do think she wants it over quickly...because it's not enjoyable for her. She was young when you got together and may not know what does it for her.

ClaireElizabethBeauchampFraser · 22/12/2018 02:47

I feel so much for your wife. She has been through so much and become incredibly vulnerable and dependent on you. She has only just recovered from pregnancy which in itself is exhausting, particularly for your wife by the sounds of it. She has a baby, dependent on her dependence on you and right now she must be terrified, heartbroken and utterly confused.

You have made so many decisions to continue and move forward in this relationship despite there being pretty MAJOR issues in your relationship. Why on earth would you propose to a woman who you had nothing in common with? Let alone marry her and convince her to conceive a baby with you? You were the driving force here, no matter how much you back-pedal, you chose to ask her Doctor, you had sex multiple times with her despite knowing that she hated sex ( there are other ways) in order to conceive.

Now suddenly, now she is a little bit more independent, you want to end your relationship. Why now? Why not years ago? Why build this enormous bond between you both (as caring for a partner takes a new level of intimacy and trust)? Did you like the buzz of being the good guy who cared for his poor wife who had a brain tumour? Is it not as rewarding now you are not lauded as a martyr? Your wife being more independent and needing you less, coinciding with your sudden realisation that you want to end your relationship, makes me think that could be the case.

Even in separating, you want to be the martyr who stays to support his wife and child. You need to be the good guy don’t you! You proposed, you held things together and organised the wedding, your talk of pride in your wife almost makes me think you consider her improvement as your own achievement. You pushed for your wife to become a Mother. It is all about you isn’t it. Even your employment history, if you are not getting what you want from a job you quit it and try something else.

Perhaps without having everyone telling you how wonderful you are for caring for your wife, you are no longer satisfied. Your wife needing you sounds like it makes up a large part of your sense of fulfillment in life.

I suggest you stop looking to people and jobs to fill the emptiness inside and instead seek individual counselling to work out why you are empty to begin with! No person or job will fill it for you and it is unfair to expect them to! You have tried covering it with multiple jobs, you have tried fulfilling it as a carer, enjoying the role of martyr, revelling in the sense of being needed. You have even tried Fatherhood but have clearly found that despite adoring your baby girl, she won’t heal the emptiness inside! Only counselling and soul searching within yourself can do that!

I would concentrate on doing that before giving up on your marriage.

But then you have already checked out of your relationship. You desperately seek approval, your every post is full of it, so you won’t admit to us online, or perhaps even to yourself that your head has been turned. (Perhaps the ow doesn’t want to be responsible for you leaving your sick wife (let’s face it, it’s as low as it gets), so you are engineering the break up first). You really don’t want to be seen as the the bad guy do you- you have to be the good guy right! Your indignation at your wives parents very justifiable anger shows it very clearly! Perhaps something has already happened and your guilt is rewriting history, so you can justify to yourself, that abandoning your wife and child after everything your wife has been through is actually the good guy thing to do....

Good luck with that..... you can convince yourself all you want, but you are not going to come out of this looking like a good guy! Perhaps that’s why you want to stay in the same house, more for your need to be seen as the good guy.

I suggest a referral to the adult disabilities team at social services, they can assess your wife and work out what care, if any, she is entitled to/ needs. Then hopefully your wife can become more independent and less reliant on you. She won’t want your help, or your pity, she will hate the reminder that you don’t want her, every time she sees you! She deserves to live in her own home, in an emotionally safe environment. I would imagine that her parents will need to do hand overs, alongside supporting her for a long time after you leave her.

Hopefully you are half as nice as you seem to think you are and that you won’t try to remove your daughter from her care, just to play happy families with your next girlfriend/ whoever turned your eye. You will be required to financially support your wife a daughter. Hopefully you can stay in a job long enough so that you can do that.

Ladywahwah · 22/12/2018 03:21

You sound like my husband who has just left me after many life events and unwell. It’s been interesting reading what you put as its a window to his head, things he never said.
He left. It turned out there was someone who had turned his head. You haven’t answered if there in your situation which makes me think there is

I think try couples counselling. See if things can be turned around. It might be.

Ladywahwah · 22/12/2018 03:22

Also second whoever asked if you are depressed and blaming the marriage rather than looking within.

Ladywahwah · 22/12/2018 03:28

The couples counselling will help you make a good separation if it comes to that - you need to discuss child contact, money etc

Ladywahwah · 22/12/2018 03:38

It’s weird, a new baby was the catalyst for him going in our case too

SoaringSwallow · 22/12/2018 03:52

OP sex isn't a small or insignificant thing in a relationship. Even in couples who have matching low libidos, it's not minor. You are probably her only consensual sexual partner (can't consent if under 16). She very well may have been traumatized by something sexual before meeting you. But if not, and lets hope not, then please listen to what women are telling you here about sex.

Very few 16 year old boys are highly skilled in bringing women to pleasure (neither should they be btw). You are not particularly experienced. There is a very real possibility that your foreplay (which is as much sex for many women as intercourse) skills aren't as good as you think they are and that her lack of experience means she doesn't know any different.

But to be clear, if a woman wants sex over quickly because she doesn't really like it, that means she doesn't really want it happening at the time. If she is not orgasming, it's more than likely she's just waiting for you to be finished ASAP. This is neither pleasurable, nor something she's going to be looking forward to. This is not a situation you should be wanting to repeat. Ever. You want to be having sex with someone who actively and enthusiastically wants to, or not at all.

snitzelvoncrumb · 22/12/2018 04:33

I don't think living together would work, it needs to be a mutual separation to cope with something like that. How do you think she is going to feel watching you go out and start dating? And yes she will know what's going on, even if you don't tell her. You pushed her into having a child she won't cope with on her own, now it's all too hard and you want out, but don't want to be the bad guy. Please don't completely destroy her. Good luck with the dating, you are going to need it once you tell your sob story.

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