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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Already have a stonewaller on my hands, is he gaslighting too?

84 replies

CoffeeAtCentralPerk · 14/12/2018 10:31

A little back story -

Been together several years, 2DC’s under 3. DP has always struggled with communication or rather, lack of. He’s been this way from the beginning of our relationship but I assumed, in the early days, that the more time we spent together, the more comfortable we’d become with one another meaning he’d eventually be able to open up more easily and freely.
After a few years, his behaviour never changed. Issues or problems would arise whereby I’d try to sit him down and talk things through, only to be met with him avoiding eye contact, not saying a damn word and just acting as though as I wasn’t even in the room trying to have a conversation with him. That’s his go to, well, that or simply storming out of the room and going to bed at a ridiculously early hour as an attempt to ignore me entirely.

It took me a while before I stumbled upon the term of Stonewalling and realised that he exhibits this exact trait down to the very last detail.
I told DP about it upon discovering all about stonewalling and it’s effects, I asked him if he’s always been like this (prior to meeting me) and he admitted this is a long term issue that he’s struggled with for as long as he can remember. Naturally I told him if this behaviour or ‘coping mechanism’ continues, it’s going to cause detrimental damage to our relationship as I can’t be with someone that doesn’t ever attempt to resolve or work through problems and acts as though he’s completely not listening to my thoughts or feelings.

After many months of me keep trying to help DP battle this engrained behaviour and nothing changing, I suggested he go to therapy to talk through things with a professional as nothing I seemed to say resonated with him.
After being on the waiting list for the NHS Therapy For You for service for over 6 months, he finally had his first appointment the other week. Brilliant! He’s acknowledged there’s something not quite right and is taking the steps to see what he can do about it. Problem (potentially and hopefully) solved regarding the stonewalling, I thought.

Then something happened this week that’s highlighted another on going issue that I think I’ve been turning a blind eye too because I’ve been so focused on the stonewalling.

Our 2DC’s came down ill last weekend and haven’t sleep at all this week. We’re both exhausted and at our wits end regarding how to get our youngest DC to sleep for longer than 2 hours at the moment. After many hours of being in the nursery with DC2 and having no luck, DP took over. He proceeded to sit and rock DC2 which is exactly what I’d been doing and it clearly wasn’t working. I told DP he was wasting his time and that we needed to try a different approach, this for some reason, struck a nerve and he told me to fuck off. I left the room and returned after about half an hour after hearing DC2 still crying and DP obviously not being any closer to getting him to sleep. I once again said that he was wasting his time, he should go back to bed and let me take over, let me take the baby to the lounge and see if that helps at all, he handed me DC2 and again, told me to fuck off and ‘just do whatever’.

After DC2 had had some snacks and a 10 minute crawl around, I took him back to the nursery and he fell asleep with no fuss and stayed asleep from 3am-6am (a huge improvement given what we’d been going through all this week). I told DP that if he’d just let me take over sooner, we all could’ve got back to sleep a lot quicker than what we did. He mumbled a bunch of shit, pulled the duvet up and over his head and again, told me to fuck off.
The next morning, he got up and went to work and I sent him message saying that I wasn’t okay with being told to fuck off so many times unnecessarily and that it hurt me, when all I was trying to do was get DC2 down as quick as possible so that both DC and DP could go back to bed. I told him I expected an apology.

He ignored all of my messages - as he always does - so I brought it up again when he got in from work and asked him how long I can expect to go without a sincere apology. He basically ending up flying off the wall and telling me that he won’t be ‘guilt tripped’ in to an apology, that I twist every situation to try and make him feel guilty as a way of 'getting what I want'.

Upon him saying this, it dawned on me that he always does this. He always minimises my feelings to the point where I wind up being left doubting whether I even have a right to be upset or annoyed about anything. If I pull him up on something that’s upset or bothered me, it always transcends to ME apologising to him (fuck knows how!?!) and I always end up regretting ever voicing my opinion in the first place because of the shitstorm that follows.
I’m constantly second guessing myself after arguments that we’ve had and find myself wondering whether I’m even entitled to have feelings or opinions that go against his.

Is this gaslighting? I don’t know whether it is or not, after having a little look online he does seem to fit the description, but for anyone who 100% knows that they’ve been with a gaslighter - does this sound like something you’ve been through/something they would’ve done to you?

Thanks!

OP posts:
TheFaerieQueene · 14/12/2018 10:38

I’m not sure if it is gaslighting, but to be honest, a name tag is irrelevant. He sounds a nasty piece of work. Whilst I understand how difficult it is when children don’t sleep, his behaviour to you then and later on is just not right. Add that to the stonewalling - which you hope will be resolved - I wouldn’t bet on it - I think you have some serious choices to make.
Is this the environment you want your children to be raised in?
Is this the role model you think is best for them?
Do your children deserve a happy, respected mother ?

Trinity66 · 14/12/2018 10:43

Honestly when you're exhausted and someone tries to tell you you're doing everything wrong people can lose it a bit more easily. If I was really tired and my DH tried to tell me I was looking after my kids all wrong I'd probably snap at him too tbh. Being told to fuck off isn't very nice I agree but i can see why he got annoyed with you aswell

CoffeeAtCentralPerk · 14/12/2018 10:49

I didn't say that he was doing it wrong, I just said that what he was doing hadn't worked for me as I'd already been at it for hours and clearly it wasn't doing anything. I said we needed to try a different approach and that by me taking over, he could go back to bed and I could try something else in the hopes it'd work and everyone could get some sleep.
I don't think that warrants being told to fuck off multiple times.
To be honest, that situation was just given as an example about how he acts after an argument/discussion/problem etc. Each time he plays down my feelings regardless of what the subject matter is and I'm reaching the point where I do genuinely second guess whether I have a right to express myself or not.

OP posts:
DeeStopia · 14/12/2018 10:50

I think you're unhappy with your DP and looking for labels to explain why that is. He should never tell you to fuck off, but neither should you make him feel useless and inept in the middle f the night whilst he's trying to help with a grizzly child.
As for the stonewalling... It does sound a bit like you're sitting him down to tell him what's wrong with him, and he has no idea how to react. I would feel cornered in his situation tbh. And you expected him to change as the relationship progressed, which is a recipe for disaster.
Sounds like you both have issues tbh.

Trinity66 · 14/12/2018 10:52

Yeah I agree with DeeStopia, it might benefit you both more to go to a counselor together to try and find a way to communicate with eachother more effectively. If you do want to stay with him that is, it sounds like both of you might need to change your approaches

CoffeeAtCentralPerk · 14/12/2018 10:53

He has no idea how to react no matter what the topic is. Sometimes I go to him about something so small, but something that needs to be addressed anyway - and he'll completely ignore me and the situation.
I've asked one of his work colleagues if he acts this way at work, and she said he does. He avoids problems and conflicts, sulks and makes the atmosphere uncomfortable and she ends up being the one to problem solve everything just like I have to do at home.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 14/12/2018 10:53

Why are you together? What are you getting out of this relationship now?.

What did your partner learn about relationships when he was growing up, what sort of an example did his parents show him?. He is more likely than not a product of his own dysfunctional upbringing and I would seriously consider your own future within this relationship because you are in for more of the same.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are they learning here from the two of you?. You are showing them that this treatment of you from him is still acceptable to you. They are learning how to treat women poorly from their dad.

Trinity66 · 14/12/2018 10:54

I didn't say that he was doing it wrong, I just said that what he was doing hadn't worked for me as I'd already been at it for hours and clearly it wasn't doing anything. I said we needed to try a different approach and that by me taking over, he could go back to bed and I could try something else in the hopes it'd work and everyone could get some sleep.

When you're exhausted that translates to, "I'm a better parent than you, go to bed and let me sort this out"

DeeStopia · 14/12/2018 10:54

x-post. Can you see it from his pov though? He was trying, really trying, and was just as tired and fed up as you- and all he could hear was that he might as well go back to bed and leave you to sort it out. It was a bit patronising and unkind of you imo. Also, your texts etc the next day- He should absolutely have apologised for telling you to fuck off, that is in no way okay. But you should have apologised too, for implying he couldn't sort out your DC properly and making him feel useless.
I've been on the receiving end of "fuck off" and the more patronising, "oh go to bed, I'll sort it out myself", and the latter was far worse.

CoffeeAtCentralPerk · 14/12/2018 10:55

Oh and just to add, I did actually apologise to him last night for my interference whilst he was in with DC. I told him I should've left him to it if that's what he wanted, but ultimately, I just wanted everyone to be able to go back to bed - particularly DP who has to be up for work!
After I said this, is when DP brought up about me always 'guilt tripping' him in to an apology from him

OP posts:
DeeStopia · 14/12/2018 10:56

I've asked one of his work colleagues if he acts this way at work, and she said he does.
What?! That is really very very unkind of you, to raise this issue with his colleague. I don't think I could be with a person who does that.

NotTheFordType · 14/12/2018 10:57

He shouldn't have told you to fuck off, but you were being an absolute cock towards him.

CoffeeAtCentralPerk · 14/12/2018 10:57

I get on really well with his work colleague.. her and I speak more than DP and her do.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 14/12/2018 10:58

No-one should ever be told in a relationship to fuck off.

What are his parents like both towards each other and their son, I would take a long and hard look at them. This is learnt behaviour and perhaps impossible to completely unlearn.

I would not enter into joint counselling with him. This is his issue so his responsibility and not yours to carry and otherwise own for him.

DeeStopia · 14/12/2018 11:00

I really think that this is an opportunity for you to consider your own behaviour too OP. Speaking to his colleague is really not on. I would feel so betrayed if my DP did that. Try to think how things feel and look from his perspective.

Thymeout · 14/12/2018 11:00

You sent him a message while he was at work? Rehashing the events of the night and demanding an apology? And when he ignored it, you sent him another one?

Tbh, I think you need to spend some time analysing your own behaviour to see how it's contributing to the problem.

Have you thought about couples counselling?

CoffeeAtCentralPerk · 14/12/2018 11:00

Regarding his family/parents - I know very little about his upbringing other than his Mum and Dad split when he was young - think his Dad cheated multiple times and went on to have a lot more children by a few different women. His mum worked several jobs when he and his sister were young so they didn't spend much quality time together.
His mum thinks the sun shines out of DP's arse though even when he's blatantly acted very badly. He hasn't had contact with his Dad in almost two decades.

OP posts:
CoffeeAtCentralPerk · 14/12/2018 11:02

@Thymeout we've agreed in the past that messages are easier for him to respond to, given how he reacts during in-person conversations. Messages allow him the time to sit and think and formulate a response. This was a solution we both came to until he could get to grips with opening up in actual face to face chat.

OP posts:
AuntMarch · 14/12/2018 11:03

Give the child back to me, you aren't helping.

You could have given the child back to me sooner then we could have got to sleep quicker - at this point I too would have probably told my DP to "fuck off (and at least let me go to sleep now)" too.

It isn't nice to be spoken to like that but I do understand why he might have felt that way.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 14/12/2018 11:03

Thought his family background was not great but that is one reason and is no excuse for how he acts now towards you (and in turn your kids). Sound travels too and they likely hear and see a lot more than perhaps you realise.

AuntMarch · 14/12/2018 11:05

Messages allow him the time to sit and think and formulate a response

And then you complain that he has ignored them and send more...

CoffeeAtCentralPerk · 14/12/2018 11:07

I acknowledged that I was perhaps out of order with my wording during the night wakings, hence my apology..

However, it doesn't change the fact that he never apologises to me - even after I've apologised first! He doesn't take ownership of any of his actions surrounding quite literally anything and always make my thoughts and feelings feel worthless.

And yes, he did ignore them.. he always does. Whether I send one or three, they're ignored despite us deciding messaging about problems was the lesser of two evils for the time being.

OP posts:
IfNotNowBernard · 14/12/2018 11:08

If my partner continually undermined me, told me constantly what's wrong with me and spoke to my work colleagues (!) about what's wrong with me I would say fuck off too. Then I would pack a bag.
He's not gaslighting you love. He just doesn't agree it's all his fault.

Thymeout · 14/12/2018 11:10

Op - but he was working! I don't know what he does for a living, but how could he concentrate on doing his job while you're badgering him to discuss your relationship?

Re the conversation with his colleague, you really don't seem to understand the boundaries between work and domestic life.

CoffeeAtCentralPerk · 14/12/2018 11:15

He has a long commute in to work and home from work, plus a decent length lunch break. On his way home, he sits on the train perusing social media - we both agreed he could use this time to quickly reply to me.

If I don't choose to message him about a problem, I try and speak to him when he gets in from work and I'm met with 'I've just got in, I don't want to talk right now'.
If I wait until after we've got the kids to bed, it's 'im too tired to talk now, just leave it'.
If I do it at the weekend 'the kids are up, I don't want to be talking about stuff now'.
If I wait until the weekend evening 'we've only just got the kids to bed, I'm tired and just want to chill out'

So when exactly does that leave me any window of opportunity to express myself!?

OP posts:
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