Already have a stonewaller on my hands, is he gaslighting too?

[CoffeeAtCentralPerk]

A little back story -

Been together several years, 2DC’s under 3. DP has always struggled with communication or rather, lack of. He’s been this way from the beginning of our relationship but I assumed, in the early days, that the more time we spent together, the more comfortable we’d become with one another meaning he’d eventually be able to open up more easily and freely.
After a few years, his behaviour never changed. Issues or problems would arise whereby I’d try to sit him down and talk things through, only to be met with him avoiding eye contact, not saying a damn word and just acting as though as I wasn’t even in the room trying to have a conversation with him. That’s his go to, well, that or simply storming out of the room and going to bed at a ridiculously early hour as an attempt to ignore me entirely.

It took me a while before I stumbled upon the term of Stonewalling and realised that he exhibits this exact trait down to the very last detail.
I told DP about it upon discovering all about stonewalling and it’s effects, I asked him if he’s always been like this (prior to meeting me) and he admitted this is a long term issue that he’s struggled with for as long as he can remember. Naturally I told him if this behaviour or ‘coping mechanism’ continues, it’s going to cause detrimental damage to our relationship as I can’t be with someone that doesn’t ever attempt to resolve or work through problems and acts as though he’s completely not listening to my thoughts or feelings.

After many months of me keep trying to help DP battle this engrained behaviour and nothing changing, I suggested he go to therapy to talk through things with a professional as nothing I seemed to say resonated with him.
After being on the waiting list for the NHS Therapy For You for service for over 6 months, he finally had his first appointment the other week. Brilliant! He’s acknowledged there’s something not quite right and is taking the steps to see what he can do about it. Problem (potentially and hopefully) solved regarding the stonewalling, I thought.

Then something happened this week that’s highlighted another on going issue that I think I’ve been turning a blind eye too because I’ve been so focused on the stonewalling.

Our 2DC’s came down ill last weekend and haven’t sleep at all this week. We’re both exhausted and at our wits end regarding how to get our youngest DC to sleep for longer than 2 hours at the moment. After many hours of being in the nursery with DC2 and having no luck, DP took over. He proceeded to sit and rock DC2 which is exactly what I’d been doing and it clearly wasn’t working. I told DP he was wasting his time and that we needed to try a different approach, this for some reason, struck a nerve and he told me to fuck off. I left the room and returned after about half an hour after hearing DC2 still crying and DP obviously not being any closer to getting him to sleep. I once again said that he was wasting his time, he should go back to bed and let me take over, let me take the baby to the lounge and see if that helps at all, he handed me DC2 and again, told me to fuck off and ‘just do whatever’.

After DC2 had had some snacks and a 10 minute crawl around, I took him back to the nursery and he fell asleep with no fuss and stayed asleep from 3am-6am (a huge improvement given what we’d been going through all this week). I told DP that if he’d just let me take over sooner, we all could’ve got back to sleep a lot quicker than what we did. He mumbled a bunch of shit, pulled the duvet up and over his head and again, told me to fuck off.
The next morning, he got up and went to work and I sent him message saying that I wasn’t okay with being told to fuck off so many times unnecessarily and that it hurt me, when all I was trying to do was get DC2 down as quick as possible so that both DC and DP could go back to bed. I told him I expected an apology.

He ignored all of my messages - as he always does - so I brought it up again when he got in from work and asked him how long I can expect to go without a sincere apology. He basically ending up flying off the wall and telling me that he won’t be ‘guilt tripped’ in to an apology, that I twist every situation to try and make him feel guilty as a way of 'getting what I want'.

Upon him saying this, it dawned on me that he always does this. He always minimises my feelings to the point where I wind up being left doubting whether I even have a right to be upset or annoyed about anything. If I pull him up on something that’s upset or bothered me, it always transcends to ME apologising to him (fuck knows how!?!) and I always end up regretting ever voicing my opinion in the first place because of the shitstorm that follows.
I’m constantly second guessing myself after arguments that we’ve had and find myself wondering whether I’m even entitled to have feelings or opinions that go against his.

Is this gaslighting? I don’t know whether it is or not, after having a little look online he does seem to fit the description, but for anyone who 100% knows that they’ve been with a gaslighter - does this sound like something you’ve been through/something they would’ve done to you?

Thanks!

I do agree that Fuck Off is not acceptable but as others have said you need to examine your own behaviour. You effectively criticised his parenting and the took his child away. If you both don’t acknowledge this then you are both going to have problems with each other.

The discussion with his colleague was out of order. I also think you are pushing him in self examination by being critical and that is unhealthy. It won’t help him either. Whilst I understand Wanting to help someone gain insight so they become better. Criticism is not the way to do it. Nor is labelling.

But if you want to call gaslighting in this relationship, from my POV it sits at your door.

To add regarding the 'critique' of his parenting - he's been telling me all week that I need to change how I deal with DC2..
I didn't snap at him for it, I took a step back from the situation and thought 'huh, yeah maybe he's right, I should try a different approach'. So that's why when he decided to start rocking him - the one thing that hasn't worked all week long - I told him that wasn't going to work and we needed to do something different.. just like he'd been telling me.

I'm sorry, OP, but I agree with others. You're the one ramping the pressure up in this situation and I'm not surprised he doesn't want to engage with you.

So taking this particular occasion out of the equation -

How do I tackle any problems with someone that just isn't interested in conversing or solving things? It doesn't matter if I'm perfectly calm and relaxed during the conversation, he'll ignore me, bury his head in the sand and pretend the conversation isn't happening.
It doesn't matter what time of day I try to address issues, he always has an excuse or a reason not to want to talk.
It doesn't matter if I send a message for him to reply to hours later, it'll get ignored and he won't bring it up and speak of it when he gets in.
It doesn't matter if I tell him he's hurt me, he won't apologise.

I'm just at a loss.

I guess take whose fault it is out of the equation and the fact is you two aren't communicating effectively with eachother so I would either try counselling together to try and work out a way to be able to communicate effectively or if you can't/won't do that then I would say move on

Aaaaaargh OP, with all due respect, you're batting away all of our comments and not taking the responsibility. I do wonder whether he feels you're doing the same.
E.g. "Yes I know I wasn't great then and I am sorry but you hurt me when you did a,b,c..." Sorry can be so bloody easy to say, and can become meaningless. And passive aggressive. OF COURSE he should apologise for telling you to fuck off, but maybe he feels that it's unfair that he has to take the most flak when you made him feel really awful.
I would find it really difficult to engage with someone emotionally if I knew they were discussing me with a colleague. Don't minimise that.

I feel like I've tried every possible way of communicating with him to make things easier for him to deal with.

I've tried -

• Writing letters
• Sending messages
• Talking calmly
• Going in all guns blazing
• Picking a time when neither of us are too exhausted (difficult and rare given our DC's are young and bad sleepers)
• Accepting he needs time to process situations and patiently waiting for him to come to me (which he never does)
• I'll apologise first every time during an argument in the hopes it'll make him see I want nothing other than for things to be resolved.

I don't know what else I can do.
I've suggested couples counselling but as far I'm aware, the NHS doesn't offer free counselling and we're not in any sort of shape to afford to go privately.

I've suggested couples counselling but as far I'm aware, the NHS doesn't offer free counselling and we're not in any sort of shape to afford to go privately.

How much does one session cost? You could surely save it over a few weeks? I just googled it, the average cost in the UK is £49 for a session

Most private therapists that I've looked at in our area aren't much cheaper than £60 - and almost all recommend 2 sessions per months for it to be beneficial. We don't have that sort of money laying around unfortunately.

Tbh with you, you don't sound compatible as a couple. He avoids and you want to rinse and squeeze out every last drop until you're satisfied.

You both sound like mega hard work tbh.

If by 'until I'm satisfied' you mean until a problem is resolved, then yes, that's exactly what I do. I've asked DP in the past what I can do or say during discussions to make it better for him or seem less confrontational and he doesn't offer me advice. How am I supposed to grow, learn and adapt if he refuses to show or tell me where it is that I'm going wrong?

All I want is for when we come across a problem, to be able to sit down as a couple, talk it through, apologise where necessary and then move on from it. Is that asking for too much!? But he just doesn't work that way and I really have tried every way of handling it that I can think of

In the situation you described, I think you must have both been tired and I can see why he was annoyed with you swooping in and telling him he's doing it wrong. I'd be annoyed too.

It does sound like he needs to urgently improve his communication skills though, I'm surprised you've been together as long as you have

OP

What you are doing is practically a textbook example of gaslighting. Use that to start to improve yourself and forget about pinning labels on others.

I'm going to assume those that are placing the onus entirely on myself have never found themselves in a relationship where the partner ignores them, takes no notice of their feelings, has no interest in resolving issues, would rather pretend they aren't happening and thinks bottling things up is healthier than communicating.

I come with my flaws too, of course I do, and I'd love to work on them if DP would tell me where it is that I'm going wrong as I can't stress enough how I've quite literally tried every single option and way of expressing myself.

Op, it sounds as if you are treating him as your 3rd child.

You both sound unreasonable tbh. Sounds like he's an under-thinker and you're an over-thinker. He clearly has his faults, but equally I'm not surprised he's pissed off by what sounds like a constant barrage of criticism and relationship analysis. It sounds almost as though you see the relationship as a series of logical problems to be solved, which will result in everything then working to your satisfaction. But that's not how relationships work imo. He is how he is. You are how you are. People can't usually just change their personality, especially if it's someone else, not them, that wants it changed!

But OP- You're doing to us what you're doing to him, which is abdicating the lion's share of the responsibility. What he is doing is reacting differently to you when it comes to disagreements- and you're annoyed because he hasn't changed enough for your liking since you met. You will never get over anything whilst you continue to behave like your way is the correct way and his way is the wrong way.

I don’t know why you’re getting such a rough deal on here. He sounds miserable to live with, emotionally stunted and unwilling to think of you as anything other that some sort of angry parent. I’d have lost my shit with him years ago.

I have sympathy with you OP because I am in a similar relationship. It's hugely annoying when someone never makes the emotional running and avoids all difficult issued. I hear ya.

Well then I guess here is where my problem lies.
I feel as though as two people in a relationship should work together through problems. I don't believe things should be brushed to the side and ignored and left to build up until one of us eventually blows - which is usually him due to his lack of willingness to talk about anything.

Judging by what everyone is saying, I should just take a leaf out of his book? Never express myself, never pull him up on the times he may hurt or disrespect me, never voice my opinion, never expect apologies.

Just trundle along in a relationship where neither party bothers to communicate or talk about the things that are on their mind.

I agree with the previous poster that you are over analysing and over critical - sounds a bit exhausting to me. I think I would tell you to fuck off if I was trying to sooth a child and was told off for soothing my own child and was micromanaged. Give the poor man a break!

Thanks @Velvetbee and @Lineofbeauty
I feel like I'm losing the plot here trying to describe just how difficult it is with my DP. All I want is for him to open the line of communication and I've tried so so hard over the last few years to find a tactic that best suits him, but nothing works.

I never thought opening up about how a person neglects my personal feelings and has zero interest in sorting out problems would make me look like the villain.
Evidently I need to work on myself and he doesn't need to at all based on the comments on here.

I hate to talk in cliches OP but an old Mumsnet fave is ‘when he shows you who he is, listen’ and from the sounds of it he’s been telling you exactly who he is since you got together, you just hoped he’d change! This is who he is, yes it’s not ideal but it’s not exactly fair for you to presume that he can/wants to change.

It also sounds to be like you’ve decided exactly what’s wrong with him and won’t rest until he agrees with you and fixes it.

You don't like a major part of his personality. You knew that at the start of the relationship but hoped you were wrong about this aspect of his personality. You went ahead and had children anyway.

Turns out that the part of his personality that you dislike is a genuine part. Given that you were already tied to him you decided the best option was for him to change that part of his personality.

You have tried multiple ways to cajole him into having the personality you want. You are frustrated that your efforts to change his personality have not worked.

You made a mistake ignoring his character flaw. Stop trying to change him. That is impossible. As you are seeing.

Get a counsellor yourself to help you decide what to do about your mistake. Ultimately that is to split up or to suck it up. You cannot change his personality. Stop putting all your effort in that direction. It is futile. And daft. And rude. Imagine if he were spending huge amounts of mental energy trying to manipulate your personality traits he dislikes.

Me, I couldn't live with someone with his traits. I wouldn't be trying to manipulate him though. I'd leave.

Cotton has expressed exactly what I was trying to say far more eloquently than me.

And OP if you respond to him in the same passive aggressive ‘I guess it’s all my fault’ way as you’ve responded to some posters here I do have some sympathy with the bloke!