Found DH’s hidden misogynist life on his phone.

[Girlzroolz]

Gulp.

We’ve been in couples therapy most of this year. It’s costing a fortune, and although I’m sure we have the right therapist, we are definitely stuck. I’ve become more suspicious across the months that my DH has been falling down some ‘men’s rights’ rabbit holes on the internet. I think he’s hiding from me, the therapist, and even partly from himself.

He likes to think he’s a modern, nice guy, involved parent, contributing partner, religious etc. He’s very invested in other people thinking of him this way too. He’s softly-spoken, cheery and a bit gullible/naive.

So I went looking. Boy o boy. Not only is he subscribed to every men’s rights feed he can find, he’s an enthusiastic contributor to chat and in email contact with some of the famous ones. He seems to have attended those talks and forums (at least the ones who don’t get banned entry to our country). One email I found had him congratulating one of these guys on a ‘Feminism is a Cancer’ essay. He mentioned a known feminist writer and called her ‘unfuckable’.

I am a proud Feminist. I’m raising our young DD to be one too.

I’m devastated. Shocked, appalled and nauseous. I’m having all the crazy childish thoughts you have when you’re in shock. I want to send one of these choice emails to everyone we know. I want to take my daughter and run. This is such a deal-breaker for me.

Help me figure out a more rational strategy? I don’t give a fig about invading his privacy by snooping on his phone. I just need some constructive next steps. How do I bring it up?

Poor you OP that's awful. It's the belief system, the very abusive way he's spoken about a woman for being a feminist (when he knows about you and daughter) and the congratulations on the "Feminism is Cancer" article that make me scared. If he is hiding this, what is happening under his cover? Is he emboldening himself and then going to insidiously (or suddenly) start gaslighting you, using your therapy as a forum for this and the feelings you've expressed there?

This sounds dangerous.

Whatever one thinks of feminism (personally I'm all for equality and true feminism seeks that, not female rule over men like the anti-feminists seem to think), the kind of people you're talking about are not seeking equality! They are railing against it in fact!

I know you've said it's a deal breaker, and I agree. You need to get out. As someone else said -ducks first.

I'm with you OP.

BTW both my sons call themselves feminists (ones an adult and one is a teenager). What egalitarian feminism seeks is not at all abnormal.

Men do need care and extra attention but these stupid "men's rights" people don't realise that true feminism seeks to break down patriarchy and release men from the destructive views they have to suffer too (ie mental health support etc).

*pre-teenager

I'll start by saying in male and I have extensive read through the manosphere of Men's rights and Men going there own way.

It's time to point out to your DH he has crossed a line. The kind of "advice" he could get from MRA's is immediately toxic to your relationship. If he is an active contributor and chatting to Elam and others then it's past the point of no return and will be thinking and saying this stuff in many other parts of his life, such as interactions with co-workers It will reflect in his thinking towards any group detrimentally affected by the patriarchy.

Your first action should be to gently confront him and point out that this line of thinking will be counter productive to your and your dd's relationship with him. Next how it will impact his day to day interactions with other women.

My concern would be that he pays lip service to agreeing eith and answering you, while maintaining his attachment to MRA's. If you feel that is the case, then your in a harder place.

Frankly, the only way that I feel for a man to be detached from this toxic line of thinking, is for other men to show him the errors in this ideology. There needs to be more men leading by example and quashing this toxicity.

Don’t forward the emails to friends. Send them to yourself and keep quiet about until
you decide if you will leave. If you do, I would be running for the hills, then make plans, see a solicitor.

Do. Not. Tell. The. Therapist.

He will use it to manipulate the situation.

Serves you right for looking

And the prize for the least helpful post goes to Douglas. Twat.

Oh for goodness sake.
I hate that, classic deflect and switch.

If I thought my husband was being radicalised I’d check too.

He has a daughter ffs

Is there anywhere in real life that he might also be getting support for these views? You mention he is religious. Not anti-religion at all (I'm actively Christian) but there are some churches and other places where a 'men's group' might focus on men needing to be leaders, strong, the head of the household, etc. and that could have nudged him down this path. Do you think that could have happened?
If not, and he's serious about his faith, is there someone in his faith community who you could speak to about this and who might talk to him?
Definitely still get your ducks in a row as previous posters have advised in case you do decide you want to leave.

proud feminist

means nothing, zilch. something idiots put on their t-shirts. it often just means a sanctimonious twit, IME.

As Germaine Greer said if you're annoying the feminists, well, you're breathing (or something like that).

But to be honest OP, it seems more the problem that you don't have well, honesty in your relationship. Not pure honesty, I'm not sure if there is such a thing. And everyone is entitled to some privacy. But a basic honesty about some more general views and stuff...

What's wrong with Men's Rights groups? Have you seen the movie The Red Pill, OP? They seem jolly nice on there.

Here they come.

Yes, it took them a little while to wade through their crocodile tears to get here this time.

I have come to the conclusion that whatever group someone might support, if they are extreme they are damaging to family and friend relationships and the people they have sucked into their weird world.

They all give me the heebie jeebies.

Mumsnet is not always the friendliest place for men, however what you don't tend to find is people expressing the opinion openly that men are worthless, too stupid to vote and are in the process of destroying western civilization on account of their degeneracy. This is actually what these people believe. There's no room for rapprochement here as far as I can see unless he denounces this stuff, but given he is attending meetings this is going to be hard to swallow.

Horrid for you. Sounds like this has finished relationship for you so get legal advice and work out how you can leave. Keep things open for your daughter and him though but keep an eye out for how he is with her. Hopefully having a daughter will change his awful hidden views though.

I doubt that having a daughter would change his views one whit, Whendoigetadayoff. Remember the vile Trump boasting that his daughter was so hot, he’d fancy her sexually himself if they weren’t related? These men see daughters merely as possessions to be married off to other men as breeding stock.

Moderate and inclusive feminists have been silenced out of MN

Bear that in mind when considering anything with a feminist perspective on here.

OP: if you want to know why your DH is acting as he is online, start by asking him. You might well,find his answer clarifies your thinking considerably

Oh come on

I'm a feminist, I'm not going to label myself, but I don't agree with all the other feminists on everything and I've hardly been silenced, I post way too much

I would rather my DH fucked someone else than see him post that shit. It wouldn’t be the man I know, the man I married if I discovered that.
I guess there’s a big cognitive dissonance now for you, regarding your husband, OP?
Is he generally weak, easily led and not very bright? Or just a gaslighting misogynist? Because I can’t see a third, more excusable description.

Can you say exactly what sites your partner has been looking at?
There's a huge variety in men's rights sites just as there is in feminist sites.
It IS possible to be interested in both male and female rights.

Oh op that is dreadful. My brother became radicalised online about three years ago from these forums (and from breitbart ). If you met him you would never know. And we come from a liberal, left wing family. We have to limit contact with him, inc his contact with our dds, because of his views. I am just glad he has no kids of his own to infect with his awful beliefs. Sadly it can and does happen, if my previously liberal brother can now hate women, people of color and ‘the gays’. I would have to leave my Dh if he went down this path. Good luck op XX

As said the underlying premise of the men's rights activists/red pill types is that women are inherently inferior to men and must be brought back under control or they will destroy society

Those who present men's rights groups as a harmless equivalent to feminists are disingenuous

Utterly agree.

Bit calmer now, after a couple of hours sleep.

To try and answer some questions:

We went to counselling for the top two reasons people do- sex and money. I guess I can add ‘politcs’ now, do I get a prize? Ironically, I’m the one in this partnership who could be considered the ‘incel’. He has no sex drive (or can’t) and it’s driving me crazy. I’m also the one with the money, I have paid for almost everything in 10 years. He works at his “passion’ with gives lots of joy but hardly any $$$.

So yeah, his life would be a bit worse without feminism!

Of course what I discovered about his online hobby is intellectually abhorrent, but it’s also really hurtful and feels so personal. It doesn’t take long to fear it’s ME, rather than womenkind that he hates. The enforced celebacy already messes with my (otherwise strong) self-esteem, now this.

Given the problem with his sexdrive, I almost would have preferred to have found evidence of infidelity. At least I’d know the thing worked.

And yes, to the comments about his personality. He isn’t very bright, and very easily led. I have tried so often to get him interested in building his critical thinking skills, even for his own sake. His modus operandi is to ‘fall in love’ with a theory (and the person spouting it), then crashing disappointment when it’s refuted or he goes ‘off them’. So black & white. That’s all very well when it’s a style of music, or a brand of coffee. But this is beyond the pale for me.

I think that early in our relationship I found his sunny optimism a very good foil for my analytical (fairly cynical) approach to life. Now that I’ve been left doing all the relationship heavy lifting for a decade, not so fun.

And, apparently, I’m also hated for emasculating him into the bargain? The mean part of me (that’d be the feminazi bit right?) wants to scream at him that to chop of his balls would take a exploration team first.

I’m going to book a (solo) therapy appointment today and see if I can get my thoughts, if not my ducks, in order.

Thanks guys. And for mostly being sweet to me, too.

How awful for you OP. But what is more worrying is the men like your husband who hide their true liking in public, they can put on an manipulative act.

I have read such forums and they are scary, they see women as inferior and objects they can control. I would be very careful about how you decide to proceed forwarded, he will be getting advice from these forums and he could do you over.