Found DH’s hidden misogynist life on his phone.

[Girlzroolz]

Gulp.

We’ve been in couples therapy most of this year. It’s costing a fortune, and although I’m sure we have the right therapist, we are definitely stuck. I’ve become more suspicious across the months that my DH has been falling down some ‘men’s rights’ rabbit holes on the internet. I think he’s hiding from me, the therapist, and even partly from himself.

He likes to think he’s a modern, nice guy, involved parent, contributing partner, religious etc. He’s very invested in other people thinking of him this way too. He’s softly-spoken, cheery and a bit gullible/naive.

So I went looking. Boy o boy. Not only is he subscribed to every men’s rights feed he can find, he’s an enthusiastic contributor to chat and in email contact with some of the famous ones. He seems to have attended those talks and forums (at least the ones who don’t get banned entry to our country). One email I found had him congratulating one of these guys on a ‘Feminism is a Cancer’ essay. He mentioned a known feminist writer and called her ‘unfuckable’.

I am a proud Feminist. I’m raising our young DD to be one too.

I’m devastated. Shocked, appalled and nauseous. I’m having all the crazy childish thoughts you have when you’re in shock. I want to send one of these choice emails to everyone we know. I want to take my daughter and run. This is such a deal-breaker for me.

Help me figure out a more rational strategy? I don’t give a fig about invading his privacy by snooping on his phone. I just need some constructive next steps. How do I bring it up?

That's a real shame. It speaks volumes about why your relationship is in trouble and it also says to me that the couples therapy is pointless because he doesn't actually want it to work.

How long do you think he's had these views? Or has he hidden them so well that you don't know.

dump him

For equality the DH has to have a protected characteristic, let's imagine he's a union organizer, has a disability or he's a PoC. And she's been encouraging Trump-supporters, people posting nasty jokes and content about people with disabilities, or some online racist content. And he's found out she's secretly a fascist or racist

You absolutely nailed it there MrsTerrypratchett👍

I think it shows that fundamentally he's not the person he portrays himself as, and therefore your relationship is smoke and mirrors. I'm not sure I could live like that.

I would be intensively reading all the material that I'd found and I would be having conversations where I dropped things in so that I could see the difference between what he said to the men's rights activists and what he says to me

I would wait for quite a while before I actually confronted him

If you feel entitled to secretly read each others internet/phone history then I suspect the relationship is on the rocks

I couldn't stay married to someone like that.

I wouldn't be able to stay if I was in your shoes, knowing what you now know. I'd never be able to feel the same way about DH if I made this discovery about him.

Well clearly things weren't right before this if they have been in couples therapy for quite some time.

What was the reason for needing to go to couples therapy? Now that you have found out his views, does it put that original reason for going into a different light?

You'd wonder why he is bothering with the couples therapy.

Oh dear OP I'm so sorry. I would be horrified by that discovery too and it would be a deal breaker. I can't understand how a man with a daughter can think and talk like that.

What I find so scary is that it’s all hidden.
It’s a big secret, as it probably is with most men on those forums.
I can’t actually understand the mindset of the disparity. Why in real life do you want to be something different from how you really feel, and if you really feel like that how can you stomach a life trying to be someone else.

It’s really fucked. We all do and say things online that we might not in RL. But it’s the systematic use that’s worrying.

I have a friend who in RL is a mum, liberal etc. Her fake twitter feed is full of right wing nationalistic stuff. Amazing who people really are on the big wide web.

This was one of the instrumental reasons I dumped my XH.

He absolutely worshipped at the altar of Neil Strauss and credited “The Game” with giving him the self confidence to chat up women and eventually get with me. Very good etc etc.

But the dial kept going past “boosting male confidence” through to “but chauvinistic” and topping out at “misogyny” when he would try and explain away devotion to sites like RSD Nation and Return of Kings as “self help”.

And he was a proudly left wing, metropolitan liberal university educated man from a very desirable part of the country.

These sites are poison, extremism of a form and really can alter the thought patterns of the less self confident and assured.

Whilst I’d not LTB away, come clean and examine his motivations behind this interest.

Urgh. The problem you will have is that he will be getting all sorts of "advice" off these forums as well about you and your nature. He will take any sort of initiative like getting ducks in a row as evidence of your desire to fuck him over. Make no mistake, he will be getting told the exact opposite of what you are getting told on here.

There's no point in saying anything, he might go back and post all the stuff you say and he'll get hundreds of men telling him what a bitch his wife is and how he needs to make sure she can't take him to the cleaners.

Sadly that is the truth of it, the only consolation you can take as at least you now know about it.

I am so sorry OP, what an absolute kick in the teeth. This would be a dealbreaker for me, especially with a daughter - it is absolutely the equivalent of finding out that your partner is a racist as far as I am concerned. The whole ‘incel’ thing is the cancer in my view and if my husband was subscribing to a view that a movement for equal rights for women was that, he’d be out in his ear.

At least if you leave him he can bitch and loan online about what an awful femminazi you are.
Then one day he’ll wake up and be 70 and alone. And bitter and twisted

The fundamental of it is, instead of realising life is filled with all kinds of different, he’d rather blame it all on women. And that says about as much as you need to know about this kind of dude

I find it a bit weird though. If he's so heavily and strongly into these views, then how come they're not intruding into his everyday life? Why the facade? If this is truly how he feels then surely he would raise issues/leave you?

Could it be possible that he's just exploring the opposite perspective? Albeit in an intense fashion.

Originally

Possible I suppose that he thought these forums were for men who could share and talk about their relationship problems ?

However the advice given is that all women are bitches who are after your money and feminism is to blame for all ills.

I suppose it's possible a guy could suckex into some extent, but to attend conferences and stuff ? Nah.

*could get sucked in

I agree with OriginallyfromLA, if he truly held any 'women hating' views they would surely surface in his real life and would be obvious for all to see. My guess is that he's exploring the opposite perspective online as a reaction to your feminist views, and its likely its some sort of backlash rather than any sinister hated of women. Do you discuss your views with him, can you have honest debates and discussions, or does he feel like he cant express his opinion?

I think we have to be careful not to conflate dislike of feminism with a dislike of women. I was a proud feminist for decades but I cant relate to a lot of what feminism has become. The casual 'men are beep' mentality that you seen online these days, I find appalling. And the recent trans are not real women' clash on the march and the nasty comments really made me despair. I dont know if its a generational thing but I find it difficult to relate to. Ive always believed in equality, I wont stand for women hating on men, and vice versa. Thats not what we fought so hard for.

🙄
Feminism hasn't "become" anything.
Feminists are not man-haters, that's a convenient label to demonise them.
Also, the views and actions of some feminists do not define those of all feminists.

I think if you brought this up at your next couples counselling session you’d become ‘unstuck’ pretty fast.

You’re paying all that money and only one of you is being honest. If you start sneaking about keeping secrets as well then what’s the point?

Mary I doubt your dislike for some modern feminism extends so far as you being in personal contact with men who have been denied entry to the UK because of their misogyny. Most people I know (men and women) would say they aren't feminist/don't like "feminists", etc. That's quite far away from being actively involved in the men's right movement.

I wouldn't really want to be friends with someone who held misogynistic views. Not actively being or considering themself a feminist is fine. Most don't. Holding some views which I strongly disagree with here and there. Fine. Most do. Endorsing some gender stereotypes I don't like. Still fine. Most do. However being a misogynist is a pervasive thing which colours too much of someone's wider attitudes and values. If I wouldn't want to be friends with them then I don't want to be fucking them or living with them neither.

I'm assuming from the OP and the fact she has read some of his communications that he isn't just on these forums or wherever he is posting being very moderate, considered and offering a counter-perspective to the other men.

I do find it odd that there has been no hint of this in his "real life", but then a lot of anti-Semitic people or racists probably hide their views very well from most people but the people they know it's "safe" to do with.

Why did you look at his phone, OP? Obviously I don't think that it was good....but were you thinking of finding something along these lines or something else?

Urgh. The problem you will have is that he will be getting all sorts of "advice" off these forums as well about you and your nature. He will take any sort of initiative like getting ducks in a row as evidence of your desire to fuck him over. Make no mistake, he will be getting told the exact opposite of what you are getting told on here.

Yup. Just make sure he hasn’t hidden any money or set up a way for you to get screwed over.

Unfortunatelythis might become a self fulfilling prophecy for him.

Pretty much all the 'famous' ones are very charismatic, good at spinning a story to reflect themselves well and selective statistics and anecdote usage to back themselves up. This is true of many ideological groups - people are drawn in by the select few charismatic ones who make their name off of it and then little by little go down the rabbit hole.

The flipside is that these famous people almost always have readily available by google dark sides, even if it's just being caught lying, but many have also been caught being violent, disregarding and blocking due process, and so on.

If you want to challenge him on this, start there and you can make it conversational. 'Have you heard Z - the (you can choose whether or not to fill in like you think he might not know who they are) - did X?...". Chip away at the charisma and the stories they've told. It may help if you can get a friend he respects on side as well.

My spouse and I have a friend who wasn't quite as far as it sounds your husband has gone but she was circling the red pill hole. She wasn't participating but she had watched all the youtube channels, read a lot of those kinds of forums, and while yeah, she might be a bit naive and generally believes what she's told unless proven otherwise, it was almost a perfect storm of not really knowing who the people were beyond their online personas and issues with violent women in her past that were never brought to justice. Helping to get the information on the people and the sources they were using and helping her talk it out did help shift her perspective.

I must say though, there is a big difference in that she wasn't particularly hiding it and she had more issues with mainstream liberal feminism and the treatment of victims of female violence than calling all feminism a cancer and rating the fuckability of anyone. Only you can decide if it's worth trying to pull him or not and if so, I'd keep realistic expectations that it might not help.