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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

WWYD? Disastrous sibling to stay situation

96 replies

DanglyNora · 29/11/2018 13:04

I've namechanged, though I realise if sibling sees this the shit will hit the fan anyway.

I have a sibling, I'll call them X/they. Until recently sibling was my sister but has "come out as non-binary". They also have multiple other diagnoses, some self-diagnosed, some not, including ASD (also recent) and was previously gay. This is relevant. I have tried to be supportive but I also feel that X "collects" diagnoses and has a huge agenda to seek an identity and be a member of special needs groups, if that makes sense. They are surrounded by other similar people who all talk a lot about their gender/SN issues on twitter and are very vocal and demanding. I don't want to sound bitchy, just trying to describe the situation. But full disclosure I am gender-critical and what X would call a TERF, but I've just avoided discussing this.

Thought my whole extended family is a dysfunctional wreck, I have mainly got on with X well, though not been super-close. X likes to visit my town for a particular event each year, and has stayed with us in the past, sometimes with spouse from whom X is now separated. They have been disorganised and messy, but not to a terrible extent.

This year I was away on holiday during said event and I asked X if they would like to stay at ours and cat-sit, they agreed. I paid towards transport as a thank you (X has v little money).

While we were away I had texts from X complaining that cat was being sick a lot, she is a sicky cat at times so I apologised but didn't think much of it.

We got back shortly after X left and were horrified to find an utter bombsite. Spilt used cat litter all along the hall, and also trailed outside, which I had to deal with immediately to avoid upsetting neighbours. Whole toilet and seat splattered with dried-on poo. Kitchen splatted with every kind of food mess. Bed X had used was full of old used plates, spilt food, tampons, suppositories, sharp cutlery and random items. Worst of all, the cat's dishes were encrusted with several days of food and it was very hot weather. She'd been eating from increasingly dirty dishes and X hadn't been cleaning/replacing them, so no wonder she was ill. Poor thing was traumatised.

I was very, very upset, especially as we'd just had an exhausting long journey (just me and kids, I'm a single mum) and I had to clean everything up. The kids were furious about the cat and said X could never stay again. X never mentioned anything, explained or apologised so it's not as if there was some particular explanation.

Well you know where this is heading. I was going to talk to X about it and chickened out and never did it. Now X wants to come and stay again, and I don't know what to do, how to approach it and what to say.

The problem is that X is very sensitive and has a victim-like mentality, and often uses their diagnoses to explain that they aren't capable of various things. But in fact they used to be able to cope, before all these diagnoses, and were never this bad - messy yes, but able to do basic housekeeping and have never left a toilet like that before.

I have always been like the "grown-up" among my siblings and feel like they act more like children around me, which I hate. If I address this I will be the oh-so-perfect big sister "telling X off" and it will just reinforce the dynamic even more. I also don't want to fall out with X at this time. Though I'm not an expert, I've had my own MH issues and I suspect X is depressed and doesn't need to be abandoned.

But my kids matter too. I could cope with X staying briefly if I was there, but they don't want X here at all.

I need to reply to X's email asking to stay, what would you say? (Btw email is by far the best way for us to talk, it won't be by phone as we both dislike it.)

OP posts:
Caselgarcia · 29/11/2018 13:12

Could you just say you have a lot going on and are busy so it wouldn't be convenient for her to stay. I think it's rude to invite yourself to someone else's home. Just keep email short and breezy and don't offer excuses.

DanglyNora · 29/11/2018 13:14

I could but this will be ongoing. They've been to stay a lot in the past, I'd now have to keep vaguely putting them off repeatedly.

OP posts:
AtrociousCircumstance · 29/11/2018 13:17

You just have to be honest. There is no other way.

“Im afraid we can’t let you stay with us any more due to how you left the house and the cat last time you were here. I’m sure you didn’t mean to upset us but that’s the decision we have made.”

hellsbellsmelons · 29/11/2018 13:17

You really need to be honest now.
'Sorry X, no you cannot stay here. The mess you left last time was outrageous. The kids were horrified at the way you treated the cat. It would be good to catch up but you cannot stay'
Job done!

Snowwontbelong · 29/11/2018 13:17

Do they like ddogs? No? Get a bloody massive one!
Could you mention possibly getting a lodger and there is no space for her to stay anymore? Suggest friend of friend's dd or something!!

Abitlost2015 · 29/11/2018 13:19

I’d say it’s time to be clear and firm. “I am sorry the last time you stayed I returned to a dirty and messy house and I cannot deal with extra work now so it is not possible for you to come and stay with us. I am sorry “. If she replies accepting responsibility, apologising and providing a plan for the future you can re think your position.

Luckingfovely · 29/11/2018 13:21

Agree with everyone else, you have to tell them straight that the way they left your house was unacceptable, and they are not welcome to stay ever again.

And then watch the flounce!

RatherBeRiding · 29/11/2018 13:22

I agree you need to be honest. MH isn't an excuse to trash someone's house without explanation and I am sure you would feel more lenient if they had at least offered that they were feeling unable to cope and sorry about the mess etc.

In turn, don't make excuses. Say you and the kids were upset at the mess you came home to, and how the cat had been treated. Don't turn it into a blame-fest - just say it how it is.

Even people with MH issues and depression sometimes need to be challenged about the impact their behaviour is having on other people.

BobLemon · 29/11/2018 13:25

Shock X treated you horrifically!

Could there have been a possibility she was trying to goad you into "telling her off" by treating your home like that? Was it some cry for help or some other f@@ked up explanation?

Anyway. Your DCs have nailed it that X shouldn't stay again.

I don't know how you can do it, but you need to say no to staying.

"I love you, but no." ?

Stuckforthefourthtime · 29/11/2018 13:28

Email is better anyway for this, as on the phone it's easier to get caught up and be too emotional.

How old are your kids? Are the old enough to understand me talk health issues (and to have a say?) Do you think that your sibling would be messy but ok with you actually in the house?

If they might be ok, and it's only a couple of nights I'd still be tempted to have them stay but have very clear - in writing - guidelines around no food on the bedroom, bathroom kept clean etc.

If it's longer, or really won't work for you and your dcs I'd say that you'd love to see them but cannot have them to stay at your house, as the last time really didn't work out, you and the children were very unhappy with the way the house was left. You could find local airbnbs or cheaper accomodation on booking.com to suggest to them?

sossages · 29/11/2018 13:33

I used to be friends with someone just like X, complete with strings of diagnoses, taking the piss out of other people's hospitality, etc etc. They did something that really pissed me off, basically taking advantage of my good will and time and energy under what turned out to be false pretences, and I did the slow fade. I don't think you have that option, which means you've either got to have them to stay or say they can't because of last time. Sorry.

DanglyNora · 29/11/2018 13:36

Thanks so much for replies. BobLemon, yes I did wonder that too. I am the "coper" and often feel like my siblings don't recognise that I'm a person with feelings, they just act out the child role and I'm there to pick up the pieces.

I have actually stood up to other family members in recent years and I'm glad I did, and some are now v low-contact. But I thought I got on well with X so I'm pissed off I will now also have to have the straight talk with them too.

OP posts:
ZaraUhr · 29/11/2018 13:40

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AttilaTheMeerkat · 29/11/2018 13:40

You cannot act as either a rescuer or saviour in any relationship, neither approach works and I would argue that this person does not want your help in any case. You are just being taken advantage of by the sibling who sees you really as a soft touch.

Re your comment:-
Though I'm not an expert, I've had my own MH issues and I suspect X is depressed and doesn't need to be abandoned."

Well that is all very well and good but it does sound like you are making excuses for the inexcusable mess your sibling left on their last visit. You are not this person's therapist nor his mother, you are his sibling. The last part makes me think that you are codependent and that is not a healthy state for you either.

Be honest and tell this person exactly why they can no longer stay with you. What happened last time was absolutely awful and your DC are dead right here. They do not want your sibling there. This person should never stay with you again under any circumstances. Would you have tolerated this from a friend, no.

Let this person as well make their own arrangements re accommodation; its not your job here to find them a B & B for instance.

HollowTalk · 29/11/2018 13:41

Didn't you say anything at all after you returned last time? I wouldn't have been able to keep quiet and would have taken photos for anyone who might say I was exaggerating, too.

Mosaic123 · 29/11/2018 13:42

Could you pay for a night or two at a local B & B for them?

You could say that you are going through a stressful period and would rather not have anyone to stay.

DanglyNora · 29/11/2018 13:42

Kids are teen/preteen. They're used to a lot of odd and inconsiderate behaviour from relatives and they would/do understand the concept of MH problems, but their relationship with X is damaged because of this. One is more tolerant than the other. Longer term they could be OK with X again.

OP posts:
MaeveDidIt · 29/11/2018 13:44

No do not let her stay, and when you email her list Everything as you have above, so that it is crystal clear exactly how disgusting she was, and that it is totally unacceptable for you and your family.

I have observed how some people use their mental health issues to treat others extremely poorly, and because they are so 'fragile' (usually very volatile) nobody has the guts to challenge their behaviour and hence the intolerable cycle goes on.

DanglyNora · 29/11/2018 13:47

Attila you are right, it's often a FOG situation with my family members. I have fought my FOG to redefine my relationships with two of them, I didn't think I'd have to do it with X. I'm still scared of upsetting X, abandoning them or letting them down, because since childhood I have essentially been more like a parent than a sibling to them. This thread is helping and your post is spot on, thank you.

OP posts:
WTFIsAGleepglorp · 29/11/2018 13:48

After the state you left the house in last time, no.

Then block.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 29/11/2018 13:48

Don't subject your kids further to your sibling's behaviours in your home; they have seen more than enough already. Do not presume to speak for them either (re your comment that longer term they could be okay with X again). Why should any of you have come home to your house trashed?. And you had to clear up the mess along with receiving no apology from this person.

Your role as your family of origin's "coper" here needs to be ultimately dropped.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 29/11/2018 13:51

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles; yours is coper. It needs changing. You cannot change them but you can change how you react to them. I would also look again at your own boundaries here.

Bluetrews25 · 29/11/2018 13:53

@AtrociousCircumstance worded it exactly right. Short, blunt, honest, no wriggle room, and it uses we because you and the DCs felt the same.

DanglyNora · 29/11/2018 13:53

Do not presume to speak for them either (re your comment that longer term they could be okay with X again).

I more meant that of their own accord they might want to maintain a relationship with X longer term, e.g. as adults themselves, or in a few years - .i.e. I don't want to speak for them that they'd definitely never see X again.

Your role as your family of origin's "coper" here needs to be ultimately dropped.

You are right. And I've been trying so hard. I am so fucked off, and not just with having to deal with this type of shit, but also with not having any siblings or parents who are sane, responsible adults.

Your replies are all helping me to take the step towards saying what I need to.

OP posts:
Haworthia · 29/11/2018 13:54

Oh god, you didn’t say anything? I hate confrontation too, but if any situation deserved a massive fucking row, that was it.

You need to be assertive and just say no. “No, X, you cannot stay in my house because you trashed it”. End of conversation.

The non-binary bollocks is by the by (I’m also very firmly on the gender critical side of the fence). I get the impression that you still want to have a good relationship with X, but personally I don’t think much good can come from indulging their nonsense and letting them leave your home strewn with used tampons and cat excrement. That is disrespectful to the extreme. It shows they don’t give a shit about you, IMO.

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