Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

WWYD? Disastrous sibling to stay situation

96 replies

DanglyNora · 29/11/2018 13:04

I've namechanged, though I realise if sibling sees this the shit will hit the fan anyway.

I have a sibling, I'll call them X/they. Until recently sibling was my sister but has "come out as non-binary". They also have multiple other diagnoses, some self-diagnosed, some not, including ASD (also recent) and was previously gay. This is relevant. I have tried to be supportive but I also feel that X "collects" diagnoses and has a huge agenda to seek an identity and be a member of special needs groups, if that makes sense. They are surrounded by other similar people who all talk a lot about their gender/SN issues on twitter and are very vocal and demanding. I don't want to sound bitchy, just trying to describe the situation. But full disclosure I am gender-critical and what X would call a TERF, but I've just avoided discussing this.

Thought my whole extended family is a dysfunctional wreck, I have mainly got on with X well, though not been super-close. X likes to visit my town for a particular event each year, and has stayed with us in the past, sometimes with spouse from whom X is now separated. They have been disorganised and messy, but not to a terrible extent.

This year I was away on holiday during said event and I asked X if they would like to stay at ours and cat-sit, they agreed. I paid towards transport as a thank you (X has v little money).

While we were away I had texts from X complaining that cat was being sick a lot, she is a sicky cat at times so I apologised but didn't think much of it.

We got back shortly after X left and were horrified to find an utter bombsite. Spilt used cat litter all along the hall, and also trailed outside, which I had to deal with immediately to avoid upsetting neighbours. Whole toilet and seat splattered with dried-on poo. Kitchen splatted with every kind of food mess. Bed X had used was full of old used plates, spilt food, tampons, suppositories, sharp cutlery and random items. Worst of all, the cat's dishes were encrusted with several days of food and it was very hot weather. She'd been eating from increasingly dirty dishes and X hadn't been cleaning/replacing them, so no wonder she was ill. Poor thing was traumatised.

I was very, very upset, especially as we'd just had an exhausting long journey (just me and kids, I'm a single mum) and I had to clean everything up. The kids were furious about the cat and said X could never stay again. X never mentioned anything, explained or apologised so it's not as if there was some particular explanation.

Well you know where this is heading. I was going to talk to X about it and chickened out and never did it. Now X wants to come and stay again, and I don't know what to do, how to approach it and what to say.

The problem is that X is very sensitive and has a victim-like mentality, and often uses their diagnoses to explain that they aren't capable of various things. But in fact they used to be able to cope, before all these diagnoses, and were never this bad - messy yes, but able to do basic housekeeping and have never left a toilet like that before.

I have always been like the "grown-up" among my siblings and feel like they act more like children around me, which I hate. If I address this I will be the oh-so-perfect big sister "telling X off" and it will just reinforce the dynamic even more. I also don't want to fall out with X at this time. Though I'm not an expert, I've had my own MH issues and I suspect X is depressed and doesn't need to be abandoned.

But my kids matter too. I could cope with X staying briefly if I was there, but they don't want X here at all.

I need to reply to X's email asking to stay, what would you say? (Btw email is by far the best way for us to talk, it won't be by phone as we both dislike it.)

OP posts:
DiscontinuedModelHusband · 29/11/2018 13:57

I agree with the "I love you, but...." approach.

Have some alternative suggestions, so they don't feel completely in the lurch - a local B&B/Travelodge (paid for or subsidised by you, if you're comfortable with that), for example

DanglyNora · 29/11/2018 13:58

The non-binary bollocks is by the by

It is and it isn't. I don't care what X wants to identify as, but their transactivist attitude means I can't be myself and be honest about what I think around X without it being a massive issue. It also annoys me as part of the whole "Look at me I'm X Y Z and the other special thing" phenomenon that I find really frustrating.

OP posts:
DerelictWreck · 29/11/2018 14:00

AtrociousCircumstance has the right wording - to the point without being inflammatory.

DanglyNora · 29/11/2018 14:01

Oh god, you didn’t say anything? I hate confrontation too, but if any situation deserved a massive fucking row, that was it.

I know :( . It's just it wouldn't be a "row", because it's all so unequal. It's more like kicking a puppy. Does that make sense? I'd feel guilty and responsible for having a go, which I know is crap and fucked up.

However, I CAN do it because I've done it before.

OP posts:
AcrossthePond55 · 29/11/2018 14:06

After the state you left the house in last time, no.

This^^

Short and to the point. No apology for not allowing her to stay, no 'entry point' for her to argue with you (although she'll try).

You need to protect yourself from her as well as protect your children and your cat. You deserve to be treated with respect and consideration and that includes respect for your property and pets.

I agree with others. The cycle of being the family 'coper' needs to be broken. If I were you, I'd consider counseling.

onlyk · 29/11/2018 14:09

You are not “abandoning” anyone by setting boundaries and acceptable standards of behaviour.

Be honest with x they have shown a complete lack of respect for you and your home. X may have MH issues but doesn’t excuse leaving poo on the toilet seat!

X may get upset but I’d take it as a sign of how entitled X is to think you’re here to literally clean up their shit after them.

diddl · 29/11/2018 14:09

" Now X wants to come and stay again, and I don't know what to do, "

Of course you know what to do!

Tell them no & that they obviously know the reason why!

If they feign ignorance then spell it out to them.

DanglyNora · 29/11/2018 14:11

I've had a ton of counselling :o and it has helped, seriously I'm much better than I used to be, and as I've said I have de-FOGged myself from several other relatives.

I haven't gone into the whole family background but it was bad, very, very bad. I've had some tough times and needed help at various points. I have arguably had the best "outcome" out of my siblings and have a relatively happy and successful life, but this stuff casts a long shadow.

OP posts:
kittykarate · 29/11/2018 14:12

It's just it wouldn't be a "row", because it's all so unequal. It's more like kicking a puppy. Does that make sense? I'd feel guilty and responsible for having a go, which I know is crap and fucked up .

You describing it as kicking a puppy is wrong. A puppy is defenseless, too young to know better and not trained. Kicking a puppy is being malicious. Pulling an adult up on bad behavior is not.

Your sibling is more than old enough to know better than what they did. It is not an unequal situation.

DanglyNora · 29/11/2018 14:14

Thanks, yes you're right. It's just that that's the dynamic and how it would feel. I do need to extricate myself from that.

OP posts:
Haworthia · 29/11/2018 14:15

their transactivist attitude means I can't be myself and be honest about what I think around X without it being a massive issue

I get it. I have to bite my tongue in real life and on social media because I’m afraid of losing friends, being doxxed or being threatened. That’s why I felt that their gender identity was irrelevant to your current predicament. Lots of us have to hide our gender critical views, whether we have a trans family member or not.

Bittermints · 29/11/2018 14:16

Another vote for After the state you left the house in last time, no. I feel for you, and for X, but oh dear, X has a lot of growing up to do from the sound of it. Your priority has to be your children and your cat and yourself. Best of luck with this tricky email.

StressedToTheMaxx · 29/11/2018 14:22

If you don't want to go into the reason why you do not want x to stay, you could always go with
"I am sorry x, it would be lovely to see you when you are in the area but having people stay at our house is something that no longer suits our family."
It's a no but it vague as to why so hopefully may not cause a fight.

(I learned this from mumsnet last year 😂)

Hissy · 29/11/2018 14:24

I agree, short breezy response is needed and no further time lost on it 'After last time?, no.'

Excellent perspective by kittykarate there, absolutely bang on the money.

Feefeetrixabelle · 29/11/2018 14:24

She’s going to flounce just accept that’s happening. And change the way you deal with it.

She does it for a reaction so try the grey rock technique.

‘I’m sorry you can not stay. The last time you did you left the house in an unacceptable state and did not provide adequate care for a cat. I’ve made my decision and I won’t be changing it now or at any point int he future. I understand you’ll be disappointed but so was I when I returned home’

She will hit the nucleur button. Ignore everything. The accusations. The anger. The flying monkeys she will send from any direction she can and reply.

‘As I said I understand your disappointed but I’ve made up my mind. The answer is no’

And then after that repeat this until she wears herself out. .

‘No is a complete sentence and requires no further explanation’

GhostSauce · 29/11/2018 14:25

What would happen if you replied honestly saying "I was so upset about the state of the house last time that I am not willing to allow you to stay again. I love you, but you cannot stay here".

How would they respond?

SchadenfreudePersonified · 29/11/2018 14:25

You will doubtless get "Oh - but I can't help it! I'm not we-e-e-e-ell"

Don't be swayed. Point out that you aren't blaming her for what happened, but at the same time you can't cope with it, and aren't able to offer her hospitality again.

badirene · 29/11/2018 14:29

a local B&B/Travelodge paid for or subsidised by you,

What insanity is this? So X trashes OP and dc family home, leaves used tampons in the bed and cat shit everywhere and then you suggest that OP puts X up in a hotel for X convenience?

What about what was convenient for OP, was it convenient to clean up cat shit off her floors? Or to pick up after an adult that treated her home with such disrespect.

A simple "no, last time you were here you treated my family home like a skip"

OP you are not responsible for your siblings, as a single parent you have plenty to get on with, do not allow others to use the MH troubles against you, I say that as someone who has had lifelong MH struggles.

NoLeslie · 29/11/2018 14:31

What Stressed said : "I am sorry x, it would be lovely to see you when you are in the area but having people stay at our house is something that no longer suits our family."

Possibly adding "now that the DC are heading into puberty they can be very up and down and really need their space and privacy". (If they have to share a room to accomodate visitors).

I wouldn't make it about X at all. Just your family's needs. They can't get into victim mode so easily then.

mostdays · 29/11/2018 14:32

I'm sure you can solve this problem by being open about your beliefs about gender and trans* issues. Surely that would be a win win- you'd no longer have to feel like you can't say what you think, plus your relative would very probably no longer want to be in your presence.

RangeRider · 29/11/2018 14:34

I'm afraid we can’t let you stay with us any more due to how you left the house and the cat last time you were here. I’m sure you didn’t mean to upset us but that’s the decision we have made.
This ^. Explains, doesn't blame, nice and clear with no ambiguity.

delboysskinandblister · 29/11/2018 14:38

This,

Dear X,

No this would not work for me considering the last time.

We got back shortly after you and were horrified to find an utter bombsite. Spilt used cat litter all along the hall, and also trailed outside, which I had to deal with immediately to avoid upsetting neighbours. Whole toilet and seat splattered with dried-on poo. Kitchen splatted with every kind of food mess. Bed you had used was full of old used plates, spilt food, tampons, suppositories, sharp cutlery and random items. Worst of all, the cat's dishes were encrusted with several days of food and it was very hot weather. She'd been eating from increasingly dirty dishes and you hadn't been cleaning/replacing them, so no wonder she was ill. Poor thing was traumatised.

I was very, very upset, especially as we'd just had an exhausting long journey (just me and kids, I'm a single mum) and I had to clean everything up. The kids were furious about the cat and said you could never stay again. You never mentioned anything, explained or apologised so it's not as if there was some particular explanation.

I am sure you understand

DanglyNora

NicePieceOfPlaid · 29/11/2018 14:39

Love Nora's message. Says it all.

DanglyNora · 29/11/2018 14:40

I'm sure you can solve this problem by being open about your beliefs about gender and trans issues. Surely that would be a win win- you'd no longer have to feel like you can't say what you think, plus your relative would very probably no longer want to be in your presence.*

I've thought about this too!

OP posts:
NicePieceOfPlaid · 29/11/2018 14:40

I mean the one above - delboy's.

Swipe left for the next trending thread