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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

WWYD? Disastrous sibling to stay situation

96 replies

DanglyNora · 29/11/2018 13:04

I've namechanged, though I realise if sibling sees this the shit will hit the fan anyway.

I have a sibling, I'll call them X/they. Until recently sibling was my sister but has "come out as non-binary". They also have multiple other diagnoses, some self-diagnosed, some not, including ASD (also recent) and was previously gay. This is relevant. I have tried to be supportive but I also feel that X "collects" diagnoses and has a huge agenda to seek an identity and be a member of special needs groups, if that makes sense. They are surrounded by other similar people who all talk a lot about their gender/SN issues on twitter and are very vocal and demanding. I don't want to sound bitchy, just trying to describe the situation. But full disclosure I am gender-critical and what X would call a TERF, but I've just avoided discussing this.

Thought my whole extended family is a dysfunctional wreck, I have mainly got on with X well, though not been super-close. X likes to visit my town for a particular event each year, and has stayed with us in the past, sometimes with spouse from whom X is now separated. They have been disorganised and messy, but not to a terrible extent.

This year I was away on holiday during said event and I asked X if they would like to stay at ours and cat-sit, they agreed. I paid towards transport as a thank you (X has v little money).

While we were away I had texts from X complaining that cat was being sick a lot, she is a sicky cat at times so I apologised but didn't think much of it.

We got back shortly after X left and were horrified to find an utter bombsite. Spilt used cat litter all along the hall, and also trailed outside, which I had to deal with immediately to avoid upsetting neighbours. Whole toilet and seat splattered with dried-on poo. Kitchen splatted with every kind of food mess. Bed X had used was full of old used plates, spilt food, tampons, suppositories, sharp cutlery and random items. Worst of all, the cat's dishes were encrusted with several days of food and it was very hot weather. She'd been eating from increasingly dirty dishes and X hadn't been cleaning/replacing them, so no wonder she was ill. Poor thing was traumatised.

I was very, very upset, especially as we'd just had an exhausting long journey (just me and kids, I'm a single mum) and I had to clean everything up. The kids were furious about the cat and said X could never stay again. X never mentioned anything, explained or apologised so it's not as if there was some particular explanation.

Well you know where this is heading. I was going to talk to X about it and chickened out and never did it. Now X wants to come and stay again, and I don't know what to do, how to approach it and what to say.

The problem is that X is very sensitive and has a victim-like mentality, and often uses their diagnoses to explain that they aren't capable of various things. But in fact they used to be able to cope, before all these diagnoses, and were never this bad - messy yes, but able to do basic housekeeping and have never left a toilet like that before.

I have always been like the "grown-up" among my siblings and feel like they act more like children around me, which I hate. If I address this I will be the oh-so-perfect big sister "telling X off" and it will just reinforce the dynamic even more. I also don't want to fall out with X at this time. Though I'm not an expert, I've had my own MH issues and I suspect X is depressed and doesn't need to be abandoned.

But my kids matter too. I could cope with X staying briefly if I was there, but they don't want X here at all.

I need to reply to X's email asking to stay, what would you say? (Btw email is by far the best way for us to talk, it won't be by phone as we both dislike it.)

OP posts:
LanaorAna2 · 29/11/2018 14:43

Bed you had used was full of old used plates, spilt food, tampons, suppositories, sharp cutlery and random items. - did you have Tracey Emin to stay?

Joking apart, no behavioural minority group is classified by its need to shit all over the toilet. She's trying it on.

You can't let her back in. It will break the habit of a lifetime, but think of a dead cat and it might give you the oomph to take sibling on.

When you do, you'd be amazed how little fuss it creates long term. Maybe a row but then all will go blissfully quiet and your life will get better. Tell her you're busy, then say the Dcs are infectious, then say you're away, then say you're ill - in case she comes back again and again.

Good luck. You poor thing.

eddielizzard · 29/11/2018 14:44

Do you want to be vague, or do you want to address the way she left your house last time?

Missingstreetlife · 29/11/2018 14:46

I don't know, perhaps I'm in the fog with my own x, but sometimes we can see people with a lot of issues really struggling, maybe x was depressed and couldn't clean up etc. At that time you made the invitation, this time is different as x is asking. I presume you don't want to be no contact?
I don't think you should have anyone to stay if you are not comfortable, but I think some people are so over sensitive it's not worth confronting them, it's unlikely to do any good. I'm not against conflict or telling it straight but you could be more subtle if it's going to avoid heartache.
Try to find an alternative, don't lie but no need for a screaming argument either unless you think a few home truths are in order.
I think I would just say we are not ok with you, or people, staying and try t find another way to meet, or get a break for x if that's what they want.
I would throw money at it if you can, because it soles a problem for me too.

DanglyNora · 29/11/2018 14:47

I want to be honest and address it - it's just finding the courage and accepting that what I thought was an OK sibling relationship is going to be badly damaged.

I'm naturally very honest, but also hate confrontation. I wish I had relatives I could just be upfront with but I find it very hard as they are tend to be unreasonable/difficult in various ways.

However I don't want to do the vagueness thing because I'll just have to keep doing it. I want to give the message that I expect adult behaviour and respect, and decent treatment of the cat, from someone staying in my house.

OP posts:
Bloomcounty · 29/11/2018 14:50

"Sorry X, it's been okay in the past but last time it was just not acceptable, the state you left my home in. It distressed us all, and I'm afraid I'm just not going to be able to let you stay in my home again because of it".

Repeat (copy and paste, copy and paste) until they stop asking.

Spudlet · 29/11/2018 14:53

Whatever you do, don't pay for a b&b! If they trash that room too, you could be landed with a massive bill.

You are absolutely reasonable and fully within your rights to say no here.

Charolais · 29/11/2018 14:53

Make up a weird never heard of before diagnoses for you or your children and use it as an excuse as to why sibling can never enter your home again.

gendercritter · 29/11/2018 14:54

I'm the same in that I hare conflict but I think every timeyou do speak up for yourself when something like this happens, you feel a little stronger and walk a little taller. If you speak up, you aren't dmaging the relationship. She has done the damage by trashing your house. So she didn't care about causing you upset.

I wouldn't bring up tthe trans issue with her because she sadly sounds unstable and you could find your name smeared on twitter or have her harrass you. Treat it with the equivalent of a 'that's nice dear' attitude, aka give it absolutely no attention. But back off too and don't have much to do with her. You can patch things up when she hopefully comes out if this phase

Spudlet · 29/11/2018 14:59

You know if you go vague or make up a reason, you're only inviting them to come up with ways to get around that and come anyway. No one who leaves a state like that behind them is going to take a tactful hint, either. I would also be tempted to avoid a confrontation, but ultimately honesty is your only option here.

Be factual and calm, but actions have consequences and that applies to X as much as anyone else. No one forced them to leave a dreadful mess, or to fail to even acknowledge it, let alone apologise. So the consequence is, no more staying. A consequence which they brought upon themselves.

ZackPizzazz · 29/11/2018 15:00

I don't think you'd be doing X any favours at all, to say nothing of yourself, your children and your cat, by being vague about why they can no longer stay. It's hardly like you conducted an Army white-glove dust test on all surfaces; your expectations for them were extremely modest and only that they not leave your home a disgusting, hazardous-to-health mess. Is X's own home a literal shit pit, I wonder? Were they so depressed they couldn't even apologise for the state of it?

Whether X didn't or couldn't clean, they need to hear about the impact on you and the cat. Don't expect anything good of the response, but X should hear it and understand the consequences of their actions nonetheless.

Jenny17 · 29/11/2018 15:01

I'd say no. Simple.

Missingstreetlife · 29/11/2018 15:03

It's different leaving someone in your house, no one in their right mind would leave x in their house again. Is x house a shit tip, or do they manage at home?
Staying with you is different because no responsibility, that has been ok before? So not a good reason in their eyes?
Just be honest and say it's not ok, you were pissed off, and you would like to meet elsewhere or not staying visit. Stand well back, you may find flouncing off, or that they they need you more than you need them, because there is an element of you need them, naturally so. Good luck

delboysskinandblister · 29/11/2018 15:04

cruel to be kind honesty is the best policy. don't be a doormat. you'll feel even worse and worst of all nothing well change. she'll respect you more for it.

RiverTam · 29/11/2018 15:06

I think you know what you have to do - honest, straight talking. Make sure you don't leave a back door open, as it were.

The non-binary thing is very relevant, I feel - from what I have seen/read/heard NB types are enormously narcissistic and your sibling sounds almost textbook. 'Collecting diagnoses' sounds about right, and yes, wallowing on social media about it all.

EerieSilence · 29/11/2018 15:06

You definitely need to put your foot down and be firm about saying no to any kinds of staying over at your place.
They can feel like victims but why should you care? They're adults, not babies.

delboysskinandblister · 29/11/2018 15:08

she may even thank you for it! God knows, your cat will.. Wink

GhostSauce · 29/11/2018 15:13

Anyone who treats my cat badly is never stepping through my door again.

And what does her being trans have to do with her trashing your house? I don't see how they are related and why she would expect to be treated more leniently in such a situation. Maybe she knows you wouldn't call her out on it?

She sounds like a pain in the arse, whatever she identifies as. She's an adult. If she can't treat other peoples property respectfully then she doesn't get to come back.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 29/11/2018 15:13

And what would your kids think of you as their mother if X did stay in your home again?.

You hate conflict, your sibling knows that all too well and uses that against you.

ZackPizzazz · 29/11/2018 15:14

Even considering this from a parental perspective, OP, it's not good parenting to protect children from the natural consequences of their actions. A 10yo is more than capable of understanding that if you behave badly in someone else's home, you won't get invited back. If X was so ill at the time that they were incapable of cleaning, they still need to hear the impact so that they can have better future strategies to avoid becoming so unwell.

delboysskinandblister · 29/11/2018 15:16

what AttilaTheMeerkat said!

dontalltalkatonce · 29/11/2018 15:25

You need to put your kids and your pet first here and grow a spine. And it doesn't require all this drama and confrontation, you just use one of the highly suitable suggestions for messages given here and then just repeat in response with another one of them. NO apologies or justifications or excuses. This sibling phones you to argue you answer, 'This isn't open for discussion. The will be no staying here.' Over and over and then you just don't engage with this person.

Because there's no excuse for this treatment of your home, your kids and your pet. You have to put them first and stand up for them or you show them that they are there to be walked all over.

Branleuse · 29/11/2018 15:54

Say look X, I love you to bits, but after you left my house as an utter shithole last time and it took me days to clean it up. Im not having it again. I didnt want to fall out over it so I didnt mention it, but youre going to have to find somewhere else to stay. I know you have stuff going on, and I never expected you to keep a showhome, but this was something else entirely. I am feeling awkward about this and id rather pretend it didnt happen and move on, but please dont ask to use my home again and lets forget about it

crosstalk · 29/11/2018 16:08

I don't think the non-binary are all narcissistic etc but clearly OP sees it as part of her sister's pattern of collecting isms. And depression can lead to lack of hygiene etc but you would still know you'd left a place in an awful state. Let it be a lesson to all of us - take photographs of destruction and mess! and bring it up immediately.

OP I would definitely be straightforward with your DSis and perhaps talk it through with your kids so they know your concerns and can understand any aftermath. Good luck, keep calm, and don't get dragged into any "no I didn't .. yes you did" malarkey.

DanglyNora · 29/11/2018 16:13

The trans thing is just part of an array of "special" identities that X has amassed, which is one of the things that makes X difficult to deal with (for me at least). Not being "trans" in itself (although I have my doubts about that anyway) but this need to be special and see everything through an identity politics lens, and get special treatment.

To me that behaviour seems to be in itself some kind of MH issue, but that's quite controversial I suppose.

OP posts:
Haworthia · 29/11/2018 16:47

I agree that it’s a MH issue in itself. I’ve seen it before in one “trans” celeb (although I think they may have changed their minds about that in recent months).