Another handhold needed

[Whatdyknow]

STBX has been openly having an affair for 4 months since caught out on WhatsApp. Has told me of his feelings for ow and throughout the whole thing says he needs to leave to get his head straight but has only ever left for a night. Also throughout had continued to tell me he loves me and misses the us we had for over 20yrs.
In between this he accused me of spoiling his relationship with our son (teenager) - I put that down more to him not coming home as early or often as he used to and being generally preoccupied. Plus I have been trying to support son by doing lots with him and accepting his need to be a bit more clingy.
Now need a handhold please to believe that it's best to end this. I've tried to say we could get help to make it work or at least try but he's now said he couldn't run the risk of losing ow. Why am I finding this so hard. It's awful when he's home and I don't know which person he's going to be but I miss him so much when he's not here.
I feel so much more desperate than I ever thought possible for someone who's quite happy to play me along and blame me for everything when it suits him.

I disagree very much with Robin2323.

You can’t “ make a marriage work “ on your own. You are simply being an unpaid housekeeper / nanny while he enjoys your domestic servicing and shags OW in his spare time.

This is not a marriage. It’s a house sharing arrangement. He has left your marriage already.

When your husband sees you “ getting on with things “ he will be happy and relieved that you have adjusted to the house sharing arrangements. He will know that he can continue cake eating as long as it’s suits him.

How many months or years are you prepared to live like this ? It’s clear that OW isn’t ready to leave her husband and kids . Maybe they will just go on like this for years. Or he can move onto another affair partner and you won’t mind.

If that’s how you want to live then it’s up to you I guess. Just make sure you are using condoms when you have sex him as well as another method like the pill or implants . The last thing you need now is to get pregnant.

Have you thought of going to counselling ALONE ?

Have you thought of getting legal advice about what you would be entitled to when he finally decides to leave?

Thanks everyone for comments.
When i first discovered the affair he started out telling me he needed to leave to sort his head out. As financially this would need to be closer to work than home this would also mean closer to OW. At that time I told him that if he did that I couldn't trust her was just leaving to think and would be over.
As time's gone on and he's still carrying on the same I have changed this and started agreeing he needs to go and then telling him he has to. He just keeps saying he can't find anywhere- I've looked and suggested places.
I've had legal advice and know I can't physically make him leave.
The reason my head is not as strong as i want it to be is I think the constant lies and manipulation. Whenever I call him out on something he either plays down what I think I know or says he just didn't want to hurt me.
Told me last weekend he loved her but it would never work long term. I told him to go obv. This week end he said that saying he loved her was a bad choice of words!

Just cross with myself last night for losing it after being strong and making sure he knew I'd had enough.
I know @kristingle I'm more like a housekeeper tho am not doing everything for him at all.
He has said that his coming home everyday (almost) is because he doesn't want to lose me. Also said we're not really together even tho he's coming home. All depends whether he's in the mood to hook me back or hurt me. I just ask whether OW knows he still says he loves me and it's more real than what he feels for her.
Sorry for long post. I think Sunday's are so bad because he's always here and acting like things are going to be OK. Then work comes round and she's just there on a plate for him and the other 'him' comes back

Please get yourself a counsellor and a solicitor.

And read the chump lady website I linked to up thread.

I second getting yourself a counsellor and solicitor. You are still being emotionally abused by him and the only way you can help yourself and your child is to emotionally detatch from him and see the lies, selfishness and sense of entitlement for what they are. You wont get there overnight, its a process but you will get there.

He has clearly told you what sort of relationship he wants with you. He wants to use you while he tests the waters with the ow and feels justified in gaslighting, manipulating and lying to you to achieve this. Listen to him, especially listen to his actions.

You might be not able to get him to leave legally but you may be able to start the process and get a clear idea of what your options are. You will feel stronger when you can picture a future without him.

I've been through a similar situation myself, and still not at the end of it, but feeling stronger now, so I really relate to your story. This site has been a god send. Its insane that there is so many of these stories out there but it helps to know we arent alone amidst the madness.

Stay strong for yourself and your ds xxx

That's @kristingle & @demented101.
I have spoken to a solicitor and am starting the process but as we're not married my rights are limited. At least I know and am trying to set wheels in motion.

I had looked at chumplady a while ago but I think at the time was hoping that it didn't apply to me.... I was obv too busy dancing! Maybe time to revisit.

I think I'm struggling at the moment because I've told him I won't stand for it any more. It makes me feel like I'm the one breaking up the family. I know that's not true but I feel so guilty.

He's blurred what is going on so much that I get waves of panic that I'm just being mad and it's all in my head. Or thinking that I should just ignore it. Or believing it's my fault for not being affectionate and attentive enough. He's said I'm just a liar but I don't know what he thinks I'm lying about.
I just feel so exhausted and sad.

Big hug
You need to step back and ignore what's coming out his mouth.
No one is perfect and it is important to take responsibility for your actions.
But what he is doing is following 'the script' he's making you the bad guy to elevate his guilt.
So take no notice.

Either way you did not 'force'
Him to solve his problems by chatting up ow.
You did not force him to continue with this affair.
And you did not force him visit her at any point.
He chose that all by himself.

I hate this. Not sure I can do it. I just need him to be gone but he says he won't if he can't just come back when he wants to see DS. I've never said or wanted to restrict their contact for both of their sakes but not sure that just popping back whenever is going to be fair or emotionally possible for me.
Since deciding I really had put up with enough I feel so much worse and more emotional. I think I've been blanking things for so long and wanting to believe it would all work out that my head's now crashing down.
I just wish I could sleep or run away.
Need to have some calm for DS's sake

Hi whadyknow,
what you said in your last post, is that a possibility, that you could get a night away and clear your head a bit. Have you got support from friends or family. You are grieving, and it's a lot to go through by yourself especially when he has made your home such a sad environment.

I know you said you are not married but both names on the mortgage paid by him but that doesn't mean he calls all the shots and is entitled to have this shitty set up he proposes. Get some advice and Get the ball rolling.

I don't know what else to say to you except don't put this on your back, all the crap with getting caught up in his drama and being blamed for his actions. It's awful. I genuinely think it's a process they go through when justifying shitty actions, you become an object to them and the moral compass has been thrown out the window.

The words he says probably don't mean a lot whether to you or the ow, so who cares really - word salad I think it's called! Don't even engage, it will only scramble your head more!

Also meant to say that womenaid can be great for support and advice
Wishing you the Best, try to get some sleep xx

Think you're right @demented101. I'm now hitting the grief and it's intense.
I think every time it's started to hit in the past few months I've blocked it by pretending nothing was happening.
Or at least like I could influence it. Basically sticking my head in the sand.
Now that I've reached the point where I've had enough I feel like my energy's disappeared. I guess the adrenaline from being constantly on guard and suspicious has been what's kept me going weirdly.

So after saying I'd totally had enough of the way he's been treating me, and involving solicitor to say what I expected including him moving out, he comes in today to say shall we sort out the Christmas tree. Honestly as if nothing has happened in these past few months
Even had fun with DS so that he ended up saying how lovely this evening has been and didn't I think so too. I had to say it was nice but didn't mean everything is OK with me & OH. Maybe didn't need to say that but I don't want him building up hopes that things are fixed when he's known they've not been good for a while (no specifics)

Honestly OP you must stop engaging with him so much, you’re slowly facing up to a situation you don’t want so stop playing the game with him it only benefits him.

Can you get a friend round as much as possible, a family member, basically anyone to give you the support and keep you grounded and stop his abuse and manipulation he’s doing to you, get it out there to everyone what is happening, he may not be so vocal then.

You need support and real life advice, surely there is one person you can confide in?

You have to stop listening to him he’s not your friend

I've been talking to friends constantly- I'm not isolating myself but it's impossible to not have contact in the size of house we have when he's not moved out. I didn't have a friendly chat with him about the tree. I am aware he's trying to hook me back in.
He knows that in going out the next couple of nights and I'm giving him very little info which I guess is getting to him

Yes, that's what it is, a game. But try to remember, you didn't come up with this shitty game. You didn't agree to the shitty rules.

Try to remember that it wasn't you who created this alternative universe, where lies are truth, black is white, love is whatever suits at any given time..

That's all his universe. He comes home does family guy, gives himself a clap on the back and then does whatever he wants no matter the consequences for you. Don't engage with him as much as possible, don't buy his shit!
All the best xxx

This is going against the grain but a lot of marriage go through this.
They some how out work out their problems and come out the stronger than ever.
You don't hear about it in MN because it's all about LTB.
That is not right for many people. Though it is for others and definitely if they is violence
I'm not saying what he is doing is ok because it isn't but have you asked the hard question like what is the the under laying course of his problem.
Talking to my male friends who have behaved in similar ways there was always a root cause , some really sad suff.
Have you manage to organised any professional help.
Friends can only do so much.

@robin2323 I have tried, certainly in the first months, to talk and understand. I know things weren't always great in the past couple of years. He had major health scare early last year and understandably struggled after that. I've had anxiety issues so know how MH can bed in and manifest itself in all sorts of ways.
Because of this, in the beginning of all this I talked and tried to see his side. no-one's perfect I know and I was willing to accept my part in any struggles in our relationship and work on it- together. But it's the together but that has been missing throughout.
We had one relate session, both found it helpful but he lied to her about his contact being ongoing with OW. ( I didn't know at the time). He agreed to going to another on his own but didn't turn up ( with OW).
I do feel he's very confused but I can't just continue to be on hold - a very painful pause & he shouldn't think it's OK to expect it. I think when he's minimising to me he's convincing himself at the same time. But it's not OK to tell me he loves me and then tell me he couldn't bear to lose OW which he fears he would if he tried to work on us. Says she wouldn't wait for him! Didn't even notice that he shouldn't even want her to wait if he wasn't trying to have both

Tell the other dh. Poor bastard deserves to know. You need to rip the sticking plaster off and force an outcome. This half life in limbo will destroy your mental health , your ds and your relationship.
If your DP leaves it’s no bad thing because he is torturing you psychologically which suggests he’s no real partner. Or the other dh will put an end to the affair and you can all rebuild again.

I agree that it's not black and white and underlying issues can cause these actions.

The thing is you can only deal with your issues and if the other person is determined to escape theirs, through ow, drink, whatever.. There is not much you can do. It takes 2 people to have a relationship.

For me that's a painful part of the process. You still see the pain and confusion of someone you love. I feel I have been understanding, willing to see things from other points of view but I genuinely had nothing to work with. I would never again under estimate someone's determination to escape from their issues and I think that those around them should be protected from their actions.

Bottom line is, having this set up facilitates him not facing reality, not facing consequences. Tolerating it won't help your marriage even if you want to try and save it

.

Thanks everyone. Just had a useful talk with an advisor about how to handle Christmas. How to protect DS from thinking everything is going to be OK if dad's still in the house & playing at happy families until the new year. Suggested if STBX insists on staying to pretend we should explain to DS that he's staying as last Christmas together. Something for me to think about.

I think it would be useful if your stbx has come up with a proposal by that stage about where he will be living and where and how he will have access to your d's

If more certainty can be provided around living arrangements it might make it easier for your ds? It's not easy anyway but if you can give him an idea of how it will work he should have less to worry about hopefully? Of course your stbx needs to consider this too...

No I know how hard this is, my exdh had an affair and I stayed with him for a number of weeks and did the 'pick me dance whilst he had a whale of a time deciding. In the end I got angry and left (I was able to do this).

You need to start treating this as a break up. Even if he decided tomorrow to pick you, you'd never trust him again and it would be an awful relationship. Time to start your new lifr.

Tell him, you'll both be sitting with dc and telling him you're getting divorced

Tell him, you're going to divorce him

Tell him, it's over

Tell him, who gets which weekend with dc and who does what whilst you have to live together - do you have a spare room you can use as your bedroom and living room?

Stop doing things as a family

Tell the OW dp (Well I would)

Start taking control op you'll feel better for it-

Yes you're right. He needs a concrete idea of what's coming. I'm just worried that giving him no information and attempting a Christmas together will make him feel he's been lied to by both of us through this time. He already knows his DF is intending to move out but was told that by DF a couple of months ago. I don't know which is best for him and an sure STBX will just think we can ignore it. Easy for him to do maybe. It's also DS birthday in January so any delay just runs into that.

Kids aren’t daft and he’ll know something is going on anyway, just be as honest with him as you can. My kids absolutely surprised me and were really non pluses about it all and excited about getting 2x birthday pressies and a different bedroom to sleep in once a fortnight

Do you have a spare room or dining room you can convert into a bad room for yourself? Remove yourself from him as much as possible.

Tell him it’s over. If he tells you he loves you, simply say it’s too late, it’s over now and he’ll have to live with that. He seems to think as you can’t legally kick you out that he can keep this relationship going AND the one with the ow. Take that away from him