Complicated situation with husband

[Frazzled2207]

Apologies for the long post, I probably need to give a bit of context.

DH and I together for 10 years, two children aged 5 and 3. We've always had similar views on political and environmental affairs - in particular about global warming and how we harm the environment in other ways. He's taught me (and I'm grateful for this)to be far more environmentally responsible than I would be otherwise. We buy local (failing that British) stuff where possible. We're very aware of the plastic packaging problem and make choices bearing that in mind - we recycle virtually everything we're able to (sometimes at a cost) and we find other uses for stuff rather than throwing it out. The kids get what they want for Christmas but we don't get them (or each other) "stuff" for the sake of it. I use a car (necessary for my work, not his) but walk and use public transport a lot more than other local families - we are saving up for an electric vehicle. We've invested in extremely expensive solar panels on our roof.

Anyway, in part fuelled by the possible economic meltdown that we're facing with Brexit (another thing we're worried about but it's kind of out of hands for now anyway), he's been worrying about the planet a lot more of late and is now pretty convinced that 10-15 years from now (and certainly in our kids' lifetime) life as we know it will end. Global temperatures will rise to create catastrophic weather events and global crop failures. Oil will simply run out. There will no longer be enough to eat; there will be widespread famine and everyone else will be rioting in the streets.

He's a very intelligent man and reads well-researched books and articles on the matter, he's not crazy. His views are however I think at the extreme end of things. I think, possibly like most of us, that global warming is a very serious problem that threatens us all. However I believe that eventually, sadly probably after some other very sad weather or agricultural-related event, world leaders will be forced to act properly rather than dithering. And although global warming cannot be stopped, it can be slowed and its effects will be mitigated. Meanwhile technology will catch up and the world will finally start using renewable energy sources far more so than they do today. I can already sense a bit of a step change in the way British people view things - over the course of the last year people are stopping using throwaway plastic bags, cotton buts, palm oil etc. All teeny steps but they add up and eventually these things will snowball and the whole world will have to stand up to the problem and work collectively to mitigate it. And if it all does go to pot then it's probably further in the future than he thinks. That's my personal view, possibly a bit naive but I've always been a glass half-full sort of person.

He thinks we all need to act today. We need to become vegetarian (he has become one, and thinks I should 'search my conscience' when deciding if I should as well), we shouldn't fly anywhere again ,we need to pare-down our already pared-down Christmas. We need to start stockpiling food. We shouldn't buy anything at all that we strictly don't need. We need to stop using gas to heat the house and put the log burner on every day instead (a nice idea but not very practical). We even need to stop streaming stuff on the internet because it's so energy intensive.

To be honest I don't have the head-space to deal with all of this right now - I have children to look after and a relatively new small business to run. But I can't live with the constant doom and gloom and am now questioning our relationship seriously. We always (I thought) shared similar views but I never subscribed to his catastrophising. I am happy to listen to him 'vent' to a point but there's a limit to how many apocalyptic scenarios I can take. I honestly don't think he's mentally unwell, everything he believes in is probably true, but at the moment I am totally unsure what to do next because I can't deal with it. I'm wondering if some professional help is necessary, not to 'snap him out of it' but to help him come to terms with what is happening and help us hopefully lead a relatively normal life once again. And maybe to help us find some kind of middle ground that can help us move on.

I'd be really grateful for any thoughts on how to handle this.

Can he build a bunker in the back garden and go there now? I'm all for sustainable living but if it's as bad as he thinks, it's best he plans ahead. Tell him you're right behind.

Thanks @recently for posting the link. It helps knowing I'm not the only one going a bit mad thinking about this, but also that not everyone is planning for the end of civilisation as we know it.

I don’t think this is really about climate change though. If the OP’s DH was obsessed with something that posters didn’t think was important then I think she’d have had very different advice around the need for him to control his anxiety and not restrict everyone else in the family and not act like he’s morally superior. But it is climate change so instead the OP gets told that she must compromise by basically becoming vegetarian (and the children too) and changing her lifestyle to fit what he wants.

Would she have had the advice to compromise by shutting down all her bank accounts and hide money under the floor if the DH was obsessed about the potential failure of financial markets?

Well he does have a point we only have 12-15 years until the effects of carbon are irreversible. I admire him
For wanting and making changes as if we all in society did this then it would make a difference.

However put the environmental issues aside and your life's are being controlled by an obsession. This isn't healthy. I have a son who has a tendency to make mountains out of molehills and it can be truly exhausting and depressing.

He is mentally ill unfortunately.

No person or family's actions are going to change the course of the planet. Simple tbh.

He sounds quite miserly and miserable to be around. Life is short. You don't get a second go.

He should read up on the theory of slow moving catastrophes. Mitigation is happening and will continue to happen. Everything is pretty much ok.

He also needs CBT to deal with the anxiety and fear underpinning his controlling behaviour.

If he wants to actually materially affect a positive change, he should do all he can to raise money for charities which provide education for girls, support women's collectives and provide sexual health care and contraception in developing countries.

Studies repeatedly demonstrate that the best way to reduce population growth is through giving women access to education and contraception.

If it helps I got told this by a well read intelligent but slightly evangelical friend 20 years ago. Then it was death by flood. I have lived at the top of a hill for years but my feet are still dry and Donald Trump is president

Go figure.

He is completely right IMO, I think where he is unusual is that his reaction is to try harder. Most people at the moment are thinking they might as well enjoy life now while they can.

Its nearly impossible for us to imagine that our lives will get worse in the future not better. But there are countries where that has happened recently. Venezuela and Yemen are examples. Although the causes are not climate change, it shows you how quickly things can go downhill. These are countries where there was food and people lived normal modern lives, just one or two years later people are starving to death.

He’s not right btw
If anyone thinks it’s all going to be over in 10-15 years then their an idiot.
Does anyone know how much this planet and the human species will endure before it ends?
A lot more than this I would imagine.

I mean this kindly, but your DH sounds seriously unwell. It’s ludicrous and deluded to think his actions or those of your family will have the slightest impact. Change needs to happen on an industrial scale. There’s comparatively little the individual can do. Is it worth making your lives so miserable?

thanks for the responses and also the PMs which I will respond to. We talked last night - he said he wanted me to be on his 'team' - I said I didn't think I could do that and he realised the implications of it (i.e. our relationship won't survive). What is troubling me more than what he is saying is his tone, very very negative and controlling, which is not really him at all.

I asked him if he thought I was unreasonable not being 100% behind his plans and instead of answering he said 'do you think it's unreasonable not to plan for what's going to happen'. I couldn't really say anything after that so went to sleep.

What exacerbates all of this is that he works from home, and doesn't massively interact with people other than me and the kids. So it's easy for him just to get trapped in a little bubble and not realise that actually, life just has to go on for now.

I mentioned to him that he needed professional help and he was adamant that he didn't and that even if he did he'd be 'laughed out the room'. My only real plan is to get some help for him but if he flat out refuses then it's very difficult to know what to do next, other than perhaps send him to see his brother or best mate and maybe they can help me convince him.

I don't actually think he's wrong - possibly a bit extreme yes. But I can't live with the negative attitude that surrounds him at the moment. And feel very guilty for feeling that way.

The thing is that if you have actually read enough of the science behind this, anxiety doesn't even come into it. It's simply something to plan for in the way that average people might for, say, student fees being higher by the time their kids are 18, making sure you have life and home insurance, pension and a decent buffer of emergency savings.

On a practical level, most of the changes are also things that will save you money and teach your kids more careful spending habits (always useful for students and young adults whose incomes won't be as high as their parents, something I think the vast majority of parents forget when modelling spending behaviour).

A lot of millenials and older Gen Z now have a background resentment that the culture when they were kids promised them a much more comfortable lifestyle and living situation than most of them actually have. Kids who grow up with the idea that life might actually be a bit more difficult when they're older won't have that to deal with and may be more able to enjoy the advantages they do have.

Also, don't assume they will necessarily see it in a fearful way. They might of their own accord frame it as exciting like something from a film.

He sounds like he's suffering from anxiety. It must be hard for him but also for you.
Clearly these issues are very important to him. But it's a sense of not being able to control things that causes this sort of behaviour.

There is climate change and there is nothing new in that. The earths climate has always changed. The current changes are being accelerated or mitigated by pollution. Scientists have been projecting what this impact will mean for populations and publishing their theories. There will be a wide spectrum of projected outcomes, some of which will be dependent on the source of funding. These scientific findings are then reviewed by panels of experts and lay people who determine what national and global responses should be. These people inherently know more than your husband. They don’t recommend what he is suggesting for populations in general. Their recommendations will be based on optimal and achievable lifestyles and government targets.

Re the millennial point, life for the vast majority of millennials is getting better across the world. They just weren’t born in the West. The wealth gap between developing nations and the West has been significantly reduced in the past 10 years. A positive by product of the global recession perhaps. With that comes increased risk of pollution particularly by nations (I’m looking at you China) and corporations doing things overseas that they can no longer do on their own doorstep.

None of this changes the fact that he is at the very least exhibiting unhealthy behaviour and thoughts. Does he deny the existence of mental health illness? his intelligence seems selective. If he is so clever he can read up on that.

OP, if he ruins your marriage by not seeking help for his obvious anxiety disorder, then how would he cope with the environmental cost of running two homes, two cars to travel for child contact, buying two sets of furniture/kids clothes/etc...?

I realise this is the least worst impact of you splitting up, but if he thinks it is, then he really really does have a MH problem.

1. The change that is needed to deal with climate change effectively is mostly at legislative level (eg banning imports of palm oil). Individual families doing their bit vis a vis recycling helps but it is naive of him to interpret that as meaning that your family must live an 18th century life and that will make any difference at all.
2. A good deal of the problem comes from infrastructure in the USA being so car reliant (eg parents driving by to collect kids from school rather than using a car park and collecting in person) and subsidised fuel, and on the other hand former less developed countries where clean air legislation hasn't caught up with their burgeoning use of technology (eg India). If he really wanted to make a difference he should be researching, inventing and patenting things which will help us go forward using energy cleanly and safely.
3. There is a nasty authoritarian undercurrent to his thinking which suggests that he is tipping into a fundamentalist stance. Fundamentalism in any direction is dangerous as it stops critical thinking and engagement with other ideas.

Imagine if he was an Evangelical Christian and truly believed praying would reverse climate change. Would it be ok for him to spend a lot of time in prayer? Yes, of course. Could he invite his wife, family and friends to pray for the world? Yes, he could. Would it be appropriate for him to force his wife and family to spend hours in prayer to save the world? No.

Sorry, should say "places like the US". Not intending to blame all global warming on the US.

He is ruining your marriage by constantly displaying anxiety-ridden, depressing behaviour.

He is basically not enjoying the life he has which is such a bloody waste.

I used to worry about my own death 24/7. I started taking anxiety medication last year. I can now get on with thinking about other, more enjoyable stuff than my demise.

He sounds like he needs help. The real problem you have is that you justify his behaviour as normal (it's not) and he's too poorly to recognise he is ill.

He has anxiety and issues with control and is using the environment as a way of manifesting these issues.

It's exactly how an anorexic person thinks (I am formerly anorexic).

Anorexic people have a point sometimes - people should be healthier, being overweight is unhealthy.

Doesn't mean their behaviour isn't a mental illness.

Haven't explained that very well, but he sounds mentally unwell to me, OP

@pennycarbonara that is an interesting, positive view on it and something I would support.
However I fear he's in a downward spiral of some kind of anxiety disorder, he's not actually thinking about it all rationally.

Is there a specific type of anxiety that I need to try and get him help for. I am googling mental health charities etc and not getting very far. If I could find a list of "symptoms" of the type he's experiencing Thar we could tickbox together think I would have a better chance of persuading him to go.

He has private healthcare through his work so I am hoping that might help us get somewhere quite fast if I can convince him to go.

Perhaps I need to ask on the mental health boards.

@BundyLancroft good point I think it would finish him off tbh
It's what marriage is about though isn't it, supporting each other through the good times and the bad. I fear this is going to be a very difficult journey for both of us.

Well to be fair, he is right, I've read the same reports. It's terrible. He's right about all of it. But it's hard, we can't save the world as one person and we need to keep our relationships and look after family.

The way your Husband is reacting is actually a way a lot of the climate scientists have reacted as well. One of them even wrote a report about how to deal with the grief of what they found out. It's called 'Deep Adaption'.

OP, supporting each other isn't the be all and end all though.

You have got to prioritise your MH and happiness and even more so your children's above his, that is your duty. Put your own oxygen mask on first and all that.

You may be able to help him, but you cannot fix him. He has to accept he has a problem and seek help. If he won't and doesn't, then it is time for an ultimatum and to follow through. For your kids' sake.

They will most likely grow up resenting both of you, and drive 4L Range Rovers and leave all the lights and heating on as a rebellion. I am being flippant, but kids will rebel against all of their parents' values at some point, especially if they are imposed upon them very strictly. If your DH wants to raise responsible global citizens, then he needs to dial back on the fervour, educate gently and most of all take care of his MH and step back from the fundamentalism that is threatening his marriage and family.

best of luck to you OP