Complicated situation with husband

[Frazzled2207]

Apologies for the long post, I probably need to give a bit of context.

DH and I together for 10 years, two children aged 5 and 3. We've always had similar views on political and environmental affairs - in particular about global warming and how we harm the environment in other ways. He's taught me (and I'm grateful for this)to be far more environmentally responsible than I would be otherwise. We buy local (failing that British) stuff where possible. We're very aware of the plastic packaging problem and make choices bearing that in mind - we recycle virtually everything we're able to (sometimes at a cost) and we find other uses for stuff rather than throwing it out. The kids get what they want for Christmas but we don't get them (or each other) "stuff" for the sake of it. I use a car (necessary for my work, not his) but walk and use public transport a lot more than other local families - we are saving up for an electric vehicle. We've invested in extremely expensive solar panels on our roof.

Anyway, in part fuelled by the possible economic meltdown that we're facing with Brexit (another thing we're worried about but it's kind of out of hands for now anyway), he's been worrying about the planet a lot more of late and is now pretty convinced that 10-15 years from now (and certainly in our kids' lifetime) life as we know it will end. Global temperatures will rise to create catastrophic weather events and global crop failures. Oil will simply run out. There will no longer be enough to eat; there will be widespread famine and everyone else will be rioting in the streets.

He's a very intelligent man and reads well-researched books and articles on the matter, he's not crazy. His views are however I think at the extreme end of things. I think, possibly like most of us, that global warming is a very serious problem that threatens us all. However I believe that eventually, sadly probably after some other very sad weather or agricultural-related event, world leaders will be forced to act properly rather than dithering. And although global warming cannot be stopped, it can be slowed and its effects will be mitigated. Meanwhile technology will catch up and the world will finally start using renewable energy sources far more so than they do today. I can already sense a bit of a step change in the way British people view things - over the course of the last year people are stopping using throwaway plastic bags, cotton buts, palm oil etc. All teeny steps but they add up and eventually these things will snowball and the whole world will have to stand up to the problem and work collectively to mitigate it. And if it all does go to pot then it's probably further in the future than he thinks. That's my personal view, possibly a bit naive but I've always been a glass half-full sort of person.

He thinks we all need to act today. We need to become vegetarian (he has become one, and thinks I should 'search my conscience' when deciding if I should as well), we shouldn't fly anywhere again ,we need to pare-down our already pared-down Christmas. We need to start stockpiling food. We shouldn't buy anything at all that we strictly don't need. We need to stop using gas to heat the house and put the log burner on every day instead (a nice idea but not very practical). We even need to stop streaming stuff on the internet because it's so energy intensive.

To be honest I don't have the head-space to deal with all of this right now - I have children to look after and a relatively new small business to run. But I can't live with the constant doom and gloom and am now questioning our relationship seriously. We always (I thought) shared similar views but I never subscribed to his catastrophising. I am happy to listen to him 'vent' to a point but there's a limit to how many apocalyptic scenarios I can take. I honestly don't think he's mentally unwell, everything he believes in is probably true, but at the moment I am totally unsure what to do next because I can't deal with it. I'm wondering if some professional help is necessary, not to 'snap him out of it' but to help him come to terms with what is happening and help us hopefully lead a relatively normal life once again. And maybe to help us find some kind of middle ground that can help us move on.

I'd be really grateful for any thoughts on how to handle this.

But what he thinks! I mean the arrogance of it! What makes him so special.

Actually, it's more arrogance, or ignorance to believe you make no impact at all so just carry on as you are.

If everybody acted like him it would have a huge impact, likewise if everybody believed individuals cannot make any difference then progress will be limited.

I do believe that on mass we can all make a difference. I do not believe that if I went to an extreme that I would save the world.

Thanks for the mixed responses. I don't think he thinks for a moment that he/we can change anything however he wants to be able to tell the kids in the future that we did the right things and get them in the right frame of mind.

@Surviving and @PetitPrince thanks for the balanced thoughts. Yes compromise is definitely something we're working on. I have said that I am happy to join in with a mostly (but not totally) veggie diet but I adamantly don't think the kids should be veggie until they are old enough to make their own decisions. It's a good point that pp said about lots of veggie foods being bad for the planet in other ways. I allowed the solar panels despite not really thinking we'd get the money back from energy saving (we use a lot less gas because of them but they cost THOUSANDS), I'll compromise on limiting our travels to one foreign flight per year and I broadly allow the stockpiling because we have a cellar and as long as it gets eaten before the best before date, which it always does, I think that's ok. I let him use up a vast chunk of his (our) weekends tending to his allotment. But there's only so much I am willing to (not) do.

People seem to think one of the following three things.
a. he's bonkers/mentally unwell.
b. he's absolutely bang on the money and if we all listened to people like him our planet would have a much brighter future
c. B but this is affecting him in an unhealthy way so much so that he probably needs professional help to deal with the anxiety.

I think C is closest to the truth, and I intend to encourage him to seek professional help. Hopefully he might go to the GP but I'm not that optimistic because he is so stubborn. Also he's so well read and articulate in his views that it's very difficult to actually have a balanced discussion with him about his fears. I am going to have to lay it on thick that our relationship will not survive unless he does to some extent manage to put his fears to the back of his mind. That said I am asking him to bury his head in the sand - and we are where we are today because of repeated governments and generations burying their respective heads in the sand.

Those that think he is bonkers/mentally unwell - do you actually think he is wrong? Because I really don't think he is. I think he has the slightly more extreme view of what is actually right. Perhaps I need to separate that from the anxiety he feels which can possibly be helped with counselling/medication, I'm not sure.

@Umbongo he's definitely not arrogant. I think a lot of people are arrogant and ignorant enough to think that it's not their problem to sort out. And we live a long way from the home counties.

Maybe if he got on a plane and saw how other people live then he would realise his tiny bit is useless when faced with the destruction of the rain forest to make into cattle ranches and the sheer shit being pumped into the atmosphere in China to feed people’s craving for plastic tat.

I think him focussing on op to look to her conscience when everything else is going on is bizarre and like others have said does sound like a MH issue

I have a close family member who at times over the years has been like this - about different things - and it’s a mental health issue in their case. Hard to deal and live with as they had no self insight.

He may be right - but his logic is flawed, eg rather than actually do (marginally) helpful things he wants to be able to SAY he did - and his behaviour is directly detrimental to family life.

Unless you're only buying really good quality organic meat, I'd probably encourage the children to eat mostly vegetarian too, as I worry what's in cheap meat. If they want to eat meat later they can choose to do that.

Plus then you can all eat as a family, and potentially save some money too.

Why did he have kids then OP? Are you sure this isn’t all just an excuse to not have to do things? No flying away on family holidays. No spending money on things etc etc...I get what he’s saying to a point because I worry about those things too but it all has to be put in perspective, life has to still be lived and there are better ways to handle things other than “STOP DOING EVERYTHING NOW!!!” Proper strategy makes sense. For example, is he volunteering for an environmental charity? If not, why not? If he’s so concerned he should be contributing some of his spare time to an organisation that campaigns for sustainable transport (for an example...there are loads of others) these people are staffed by experts and know their stuff and are working diligently and proactively to achieve change. He could go into local politics. If he really wants to change things then rather than pressurising you to become a vegetarian he needs to be pressurising politicians which is where real change happens. He could go and work for one of the large supermarkets (change their plastic use)...if you want to go on holiday, look at holidays with an eco interest. Frontier for example. Go help them save Orangutans...how much money is he donating towards eco projects/charities? How many cake sales/jumble sales/local plastic collections is he doing? I would expect somebody who is this interested to be proactively spending a large proportion of their week on this type of stuff. He could go and train to be a teacher, get forest school qualifications and start influencing the next generation to protect nature. You should write all of these things down and ask him to tick of the ones he is doing and the things he plans to do. If he can’t then he needs to stop talking about it because he is fruitlessly ranting and just using you as an audience for his pointless soap boxing.

Everything cawfee said

Ah, but anxiety that's based on the truth is very difficult to unpick.

I've suffered anxiety in the past around car travel. My best friend died in a car crash when we were teenagers. Therefore my brain said that all car travel could end in death. So I wouldn't travel by car. And it's true isn't it? Car travel is dangerous and people do die from it. But not every car journey ends in a fatality. So trying to get out of the cycle was incredibly difficult because I knew I was right (about he dangers of car travel).

Can you see the similarities in his thinking? It was anxiety and catastrophising that was the problem.

The Home Counties thing was just an example of a middle class person catastrophising and making it all about them, whilst eating avocados and picking and choosing what they think will save the world. Stockpiling wont, being mostly vege helps and growing your own.

The point is, it’s brilliant to be concerned and do lots, solar panels included. But if it is really catastrophising and it’s affecting your family then it is arrogant, because it means he is only thinking of how HE feels, but he can wrap it up in the guise of “we must save the planet”

But at the end of the day, he is getting everything his own way and is not having to compromise at all. Which, impo is not a positive trait.

I agree with @Cawfee

Let him demonstrate his passion in this. Outside the home!

Also- the kids aren't going to be asking you both what you did to 'stop this'. They will be trying to be as little like their parents as possible, like most teenagers/young adults.

Blimey he sounds exhausting. Live for today and enjoy life for what it is!

He could be totally, completely, utterly right.

However that doesn't mean you have to put up with daily cries of despair and wails of anguish, and harassment about your own lifestyle or habits.

While a meteor may be crashing to earth right this very second, and wipe out all life on our planet, if you can't actually do anything to completely PREVENT it, then why devote so much headspace to it? If we're fucked, we're fucked. And while that doesn't mean you should instantly start driving a diesel-gulping van on your way to throw thousands of plastic bags into the sea, it doesn't mean you need to live like Amish either. A sense of proportion is needed, and seems to be lacking in his case.

I would say to him that even if he is correct in his theory of where the world is headed he may be wrong in how he is reacting to the idea. Can his actions have an impact on the future? I know we are all part of the solution but whilst governments don’t drive change I don’t believe it will be meaningful. Anyway, he is asking you to react in the same way and not allowing you (or the children) a choice. Can he see that? Or is he deep into an obsession and not able to see your perspective?

That said I am asking him to bury his head in the sand - and we are where we are today because of repeated governments and generations burying their respective heads in the sand.

This is exactly the conversation we have been having. He says that he can’t ‘forget’ the things he knows that really scare him. He is usually a rational intelligent man and I’m assuming what he’s reading about politics and the economy isn’t some echo chamber, but-ultimately, I won’t do what he wants and move 10,000 miles to live in a cave to hide from things, so he has to either shelve it or face the fact that we will end up splitting up.

If you want to PM about this, please feel free-there’s lots of stuff I don’t really want to put on here, but would happily PM-it sounds like we are in a similar situation.

How on earth is using a log burner more environmentally friendly than using gas central heating? Is he not bothered about deforestation and the emissions?

I am puzzled as to why your DH had children given his beliefs. I don't think the extent of his pessimism is fair on them.

Namechanged for this but I am a regular poster. I feel exactly the same as your husband. I think if I were starting a family now, I wouldn't. The truth is, 15 years ago when I was starting a family, the future didn't feel so bleak. I guess he felt the same. It is awful though I am somewhat reassured by people thinking it is a mental health issue - I sort of presumed most people felt like this.

@Mitzimaybe we only use logs chopped down for reasons other than to burn then. They would be green waste otherwise.

I started a thread about this last night, as I feel like your husband although not as extreme. I got some good advice on my thread, gave myself a shake and I feel a bit better. Getting my fears out on my thread also helped. I probably need some anti anxiety medication but trying to manage at the moment.

I agree with a pp who said that a lot of the headlines recently have been triggering. I'm planning on doing what I can within reason in terms of helping the environment and staying away from the news. I've started reading a book called 'Active Hope' which is helping.

You sound very sensible op. Good luck

@Coronapop yep agree here but he's not always been like this. He won't say he regrets having the kids but does say that he regrets that he's brought them into a world where the outlook is so bleak for them.

@fuckingterrified where is that thread? Would be useful for me to read thank you and hope you're bearing up. I will look into that book, thanks for suggesting.

Just read the other thread and yes, it does help a bit.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3435036-losing-my-shit-over-climate-change

I also try and remind myself that I am an anxious person and this is PARTLY a reaction to my anxiety. I remember even as a young child being worried about ice ages, meteorite strikes and nuclear war. I never thought I would live to be in my forties - and yet here I am. Part of my also hugely regrets how scared I have been for most of my life.

The best thing he could have done for the panet is to not have kids. People are the most destructive force on our planet.

He chose to have children. Therefore whilst he has a responsibility to be green, like we all do, he also has a responsibility to parent. That includes providing such 'luxuries' as heating, holidays and the internet.

I think Cawfee has it spot on tbh.