Low Level (?) emotional abuse of DCs by STBXH - WWYD?

[MsNoMoreShit]

I’ll try and keep this short.

Am middle of divorcing STBXH. We still co own the house. We have ‘custody’ arrangements in place following his insistence. He’s barely there. Just comes back to do his alternate weekends and one midweek night.

DC are 6 & 8

For years he has had anger issues that he takes out on the kids. He has never malicious hit them. He shouts at them, screams at them, grabs them tight and gets right in their faces with vile angry expressions. He argues with them like they are his peers. He talks to them like they are adults. But he demands they respect him and “you will listen to your father”. They don’t. He has marked them in the past. Either with play fighting that he has mishandled or grabbing them, lifting them up etc.

These episodes flair up every now and then and he promises to change etc.

The children have begged me to not leave them with him. Have expressed concern about being with him without me. They have once before said they wished he was dead or locked in a room forever.

When they are not with him they never ask to call him. Or even decline to call them when it’s offered. They don’t miss him, or look forward to seeing him.

This behaviour of his isn’t all the time. The children are generally happy enough in his company. They get to do lots of things and see his family lots.

No one else knows this side of him. I’ve told some close friends and I get the impression they think I’m over reacting. His family all think he is wonderful and I am hysterical.

He also does things like tells the children it’s not fair on him that he sees them less. Uses language in front of them like “it’s my weekend” or “I’ve got you tonight”. I can’t discuss his parenting with him without him shouting and screaming and swearing at me.

Last night he put the children to bed while I was out of the house (I have to leave the house while he is there to look after the children). He called me to tell me he felt bad for upsetting the children and making them cry. Apparently it’s because the ‘state’ of the house stresses him out. He said I was teaching them to be “dirty scuzzy whores”. DD left a note for me saying “you have no idea how he tortures us”. DS this morning said STBXH had got angry and “wrestled” him. DS said it hurt. He also stopped them from calling me.

Our house is in the process of being sold but is yet to exchange. I don’t have a job and only have a few thousand pounds. I’m paying 1/2 the household costs and can’t afford to move out until at least contracts and been exchanged.

Leaving the DCs with him feels like feeding them to the lions. What I really want to do is pick them up and move them far enough away so that his contact, and hopefully toxic influence, is signifcantly lessened.

I’ve asked to speak with my solicitor but I don’t think that will be today.

What do I do? Ride it up and up sticks when the house sells? Call SS???

(Sorry not at all short)

You have willingly sacrificed your dc to a monster imo.

Let him take you to court for access, see if cafcass and a judge fall for his Mr Nice Guy.
No chance in hell he would be in the house with me out.
You need legal advice today op.

Jesus Christ; you're leaving them with him? You're knowing putting them in danger after them asking you not to leave them? Ffs, stop it and get legal advice.

I’m trying to not overreact. I don’t believe they are in danger. This is shit parenting and imo likely to cause long term emotional damage. They are not in immediate danger of coming to any significant physical harm. If I attempt to refuse to let him into the house or bolt the kids in so he can’t them out they are going to experience some horrendous scenes much worse than they are currently experiencing. I need practical advice about how to do this properly.

Your DC have asked - pleaded - with you not to leave them with him and you're still doing it?

WTF is wrong with you?

Please get legal advice today and protect your children. Poor kids.

Seriously, you have a duty of care to protect them emotionally and you are letting them down. Be careful about talking to SS as they may accuse you of putting them in danger by enabling your STBXH's behaviour.

Don't allow him in. Let him kick off. Ring the police, get an order to keep him away ffs. He has no right to access while you live there and he doesn't, his house or not.
You are failing your dc massively by minimising the damage he is doing.

Low level??? This is horrific! He is terrorising them! You are being under dramatic if anything. You need to tell someone IRL what he is like and just see their reaction. I bet they'll be horrified. I come from a similar upbringing and my siblings and I all have mental health issues and we're all on AD's and have had extensive therapy.

By the way, they are in danger. The emotional damage will already be extensive and physically leaving marks on a child is illegal, even if it is 'just' wrestling rather than hitting.

I would phone the NSPCC or SS and tell them everything you've told us. Let them give you a professional opinion on the situation.

Fuck me. This is not low level. Clearly he’s been abusing you too.

Get legal advice and PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN.

Be careful about talking to SS as they may accuse you of putting them in danger by enabling your STBXH's behaviour.

If you phone SS and tell them how you want to stop this situation and protect your dc they will not accuse you of being complicit. If you're very worried, ring anonymously.

call ss immediately, do not allow him to see your children again.
Do not let him in the house and if he gets angry call the Police.
He sounds awful, no wonder you are divorcing.

Oh, and call the school and speak to safeguarding, create a trail. They will refer to ss for you.

If you phone SS and tell them how you want to stop this situation and protect your dc they will not accuse you of being complicit. If you're very worried, ring anonymously.

Thank you for clarifying that, @MattBerrysHair.

@MsNoMoreShit please call SS and the police NOW.

For God's sake, whatever else you do or don't do, stop leaving them alone with him. It's immaterial whether you think they're in danger or not, they have begged you not to and you're still doing it. Step up and start protecting your children. And get some help yourself, it sounds like he has you brainwashed into not seeing how bad this situation is for you all.

Depending on how long until contacts exchange... in your shoes I would not leave the house while he is there. However if this will escalate things you are going to need outside help.

The best thing you can do right now for your dc is ring 999 when he kicks off. It’s a big brave step but it’s the first step in getting your kids away from his tyranny. This behaviour thrives on secrecy. Let his behaviour be known.

Also please get in touch with and independent domestic abuse advisor. And NSPCC.

You could also ask for help from social services.

I hardly ever post any more , but I want to add my voice to what others are saying here.

You are not overreacting. You MUST STOP THIS.

Please do not ever allow your children to be with him ever again.

I was brought up by a man like this and I thought it was normal . I failed to protect my own dc from my own f , and from a very brief encounter with a man who behaved like him.

My dc are now young adults. We have all had extensive therapy since going NC with both men 8 years ago, after posting here.

We all have MH difficulties and continue to experience PTSD.

Please report this today. You will get help and support . Your dc have been damaged enough already.

Speak to NSPCC today, now for advice. You need to speak to the school, now you need to tell them what is happening at home and ask them to arrange urgent support for the DC.

You can stop contact and force him to take you to court.

The court can order parenting classes, contact with supervision only etc. But the DC need to speak up and you need evidence if possible.

If you can't stop him coming into the house you CAN make sure he is never alone with them.

This may cause arguments that the dc will witness but they will feel safer with you there.

If he kicks off call the police.

You cannot leave them alone with him ever again. He’s physically abusing them. Why the fuck are you leaving them with him? Refuse access except via a contact centre which he can find and pay for. I think you can change the locks given his abusive behaviour.

He shouts at them, screams at them, grabs them tight and gets right in their faces with vile angry expressions.

This brought a lump to my throat. Your poor poor children. 6 and 8 year olds being treated so appallingly instead of being protected and cherished.

OP, you cannot leave them with him again. Refuse to leave, if he reacts then call the police. You have to protect them!!!

I am sorry you are going through this.

DD left a note for me saying “you have no idea how he tortures us”.

Stop it.

Stop it NOW.

That note says it all, their words say it all, the marks say it all, everything you have described says it all.

If you don't know how to keep them safe without causing rouble for yourself then call childlike for help and advice.

BUT PLEASE - STOP LEAVING YOUR CHILDREN WITH HIM!

If you don't know how to keep them safe without causing trouble for yourself then call Childline* for help and advice.

I agree with all the others OP.
You sound like he has ground you down with his behaviour so you are frightened of him.
Keep the note from your DD and I suggest childline as first port of call.
Perhaps Womens Aid too.

Why do you have to leave the house and how is he going to make you? At the very least, be there at all times when he is. Call the police if he kicks off about it. You can't be made to leave your house.

I don't agree with the idea that it'll be worse scenes if you don't let him in either. And most importantly, your kids don't.

OMG. I divorced a man exactly like this 16 years ago. My kids were 8, 9 and 11 at the time. The visitation was court ordered and couldnt be changed.
My children are now adults, all 3 have "issues" oldest has severe mental health problems. He hasnt been in touch with his dad for almost 3 years and is only now getting the help he needs after hitting rock bottom, and I mean rock bottom. The other two are messed up in different ways and not quite as bad but its there.

NOTHING I did stopped him, SS had a word but did him no good. The judge had a word, he ignored it. The cops had a word, he denied it all. It was like watching a slow train wreck involving my kids. Two of the three stopped going as soon as they were old enough but the damage was already done.

Their absence never stopped him calling and shouting and trying to manipulate them after they stopped going either. Always the same thing. " IM YOUR FATHER, SHOW ME SOME RESPECT". He still actually does it to the oldest, even though its been almost 3 years since they actually spoke, doesnt stop him trying.

I personally have never spoken to him since the divorce, totally no contact. I had to pull a restraining order against him and had it for 5 years. The judge would not extend it to cover the kids, just me. He hasnt stepped foot in the house since I got it and used to pick the kids up down the street. I could hear him shouting at them before they were even in the car. It used to break my heart. More often than not Id be called by one of them in tears to come get them the next day.

I know exactly how he tortures you, I have been there done that. I wish you more success in saving your children than I had. I failed mine. I think attitudes have changed in the intervening years though. The mental stuff is seen as abuse now, back then it wasnt. Im also in the USA, you guys are way ahead of us on that kind of stuff. Be strong and fight for them, please dont end up with messed up adults like I did. The guilt of failing them is a weight I have to carry and every time there is an issue in their lives I take the burden of it as ultimately I am the cause for not protecting them.

Don’t leave your children with him again.

Ms, just want to say I understand how you feel but people who respond make it sound so easy to stop contact when it really isn't.

My friend had a very similar situation although the abuse was also physical. It went via Cafcass, multiple officers, courts on many occassions and still the dad is allowed contact, he is even pushing for 50:50.
In her case she had photos of the children's skin after they were hit by their Dad. The children even told teachers they didn't want dad to pick them up from school and SS were involved. Dad was given an anger management course and told to apologise to the children. If I wasn't close to the situation I would not have believed it.The oldest child at 13 refuses to see his dad yet the youngest have to go. My friend is often berated by the Dads legal team for not assisting with contact. They claim she is doing it to be vengeful and sadly this message seems to be believed by courts.

It seems because the dad is not abusive ALL the time and is outwardly very charming then it is tolerated.

Cafcass stance in my friends case was that when they made a home inspection with Dad the children appeared fine. The bar for abuse, is not as high as everyone assumes. SS see dire cases of abuse so I guess the threshold must be high.

In my own case we had cafcass and my dc told the officer how scary their dad was...this was translated in the report to "the children are afraid to hurt his feelings".
It did suggest my Ex should speak to someone to learn how to manage emotions. My dc said to me "mum, you could separate from Dad because of how angry he is yet I am not allowed to". It is true, our children have less rights because it seems the belief is that "a bad dad is better than no dad"

All I can suggest you do is get other agencies such as schools or counsellors involved and hope the children open up to them.
Let the children know that they must speak up as his behaviour is not acceptable.
Get yourself a good solicitor, perhaps ask women's aid or DV support for your area. If you try to protect the dc by reduced contact it is likely to go to court so be prepared for this to happen.

Horrible situation for you..my ex's behaviour has settled down a little once the divorce was finalised. I think the loss of control in the divorce process escalated his behaviour which he took out on the children as I was mostly NC with him.