DF put my baby at risk. What now?

[Aeonium]

I’ve had a massive falling out with DF. Over 20 years ago he left me and DM to become a live-in carer for his sister who is severely mentally disabled. Since then we’ve made our peace and I visit with DS. However several months ago when DS was born we argued because he kept whinging that I should give his sister “a turn” with the baby. I did let her hold DS once but I was hovering nearby because she has a history of being unpredictable and violent, and I told her not to kiss him because she has scabs, sores and weeping abscesses all over including on her mouth and face. She ignored me (understandable due to her disability) and when I stopped her trying to kiss DS she lost her temper and tried to throw him on the floor. So I said I didn’t feel comfortable letting her hold DS again. I know it seems mean but I have to put DS’s safety first. DF appeared to accept this and hasn’t mentioned it again.

A couple of days ago I arrived at DF’s house desperate for the loo and handed him DS (which I never do, I always put him on the floor with his toys). As soon as DF was left unsupervised holding DS he immediately handed him to his sister and let her kiss and cuddle him. I freaked out when I saw (I was out of the room for literally 30 seconds and came back to ask DF where the loo roll was). I grabbed DS, yelled at DF and stormed out.

DF refuses to apologise. He doesn’t think he’s done anything wrong. But he’s handed my baby to someone who’s unpredictable and has violent outbursts, who wouldn’t understand about things like not covering a baby’s face or dropping him, against my explicit wishes, while I was out of the room and not supervising. Also she’s being treated by a dermatologist because they don’t know what’s causing some of her skin lesions. Nobody knows if they’re infectious because nobody knows what they are. Other lesions could be herpes or anything, I don’t know.

I feel sympathy for her condition but I don’t think it’s healthy or pleasant for DS to be touching sores and abscesses. DF said “but she’s disabled”, which has been a lifelong excuse for her to be allowed to do whatever she wants. I don’t see why her being disabled means she has to be allowed to touch sores against my baby. And I appreciate that she just wants to cuddle the baby but he’s not a doll, and she might not mean to hurt him but that doesn’t mean she wouldn’t.

DF is now not speaking to me and I don’t know what to do. DM thinks I should forgive and forget because he’s old and could die at any time, I don’t want to deprive DS and his grandad of knowing each other, and I shouldn’t create a regrettable rift. But I’m deeply upset and I don’t trust him with DS any more.

SS have tried to make her attend therapy sessions but she gets distressed and won’t go. Funding is limited so I understand why they haven’t persevered in trying to force her when they could offer the opportunity to someone else. I doubt they could make her get washed either - if she refuses and physically resists, what can anyone do short of traumatising her by forcibly stripping her and hosing her down?

Why did he lie?
I think he thought DM would eventually come around to having his sister live with us. Or maybe Gran might outlive his sister. When Gran died he assumed his sister would move in with us and DM would look after her (and he’d have gone out as normal and left her to it). DM refused and after some awful arguments DF moved out and they got divorced.

Why did he hit op if she didn’t pander to the aunts demands?
It was the 80s. Kids got smacked. Particularly if they were mean and selfish by not giving their doll to a poor disabled lady who had nothing else in her life.

Well we don't know the man so it's difficult to judge but something quite obvious is that sooner or later Dad is going to fall ill and agencies will have to be called upon to care for his sister. If she is 60 and overweight she might well become ill before him and end up in hospital. That's life.

Not an ideal situation but op is right not to take her little one over there but just visit the dad on her own.

DF is in good health and his sister isn’t so I think he’s hoping to outlive her.

Returning to my original dilemma, I feel awful depriving him of seeing his grandson when his life is so empty. But I’m still so angry. And it seems cruel for my aunt to be pointing and wailing every time I visit when I have no intention of ever handing her my baby. And obviously I now can’t trust DF for even a second, which disappoints me greatly.

I don’t believe he is as saintly as some people believe

It doesn't have to be saintly or lying arse who just had a kid to keep him busy til something more fun came up.

Perhaps he thought his parents would live longer and if daughter had moved out his wife would be more accepting.
Perhaps y he never thought his sister would live this long.

The smacking OP and telling her she's horrid to not give in to aunt I suspect is learnt behaviour. A childhood of his mother doing the same when he didn't acquiesce. Every mantra he trotted out to OP he himself would have heard a million times.

So he's been a crap Dad by just walking out one day, but it's borne of an emotionally unhealthy childhood where he's been taught that he and everyone else is less important than his older sister.

He's been a crap Grandad but see above.

He's given up his family and his freedom to do what he has been raised to do and he's done it unthinkingly because his childhood training was that solid.

It doesn't make what he did and would do OK. It doesn't lessen Op's hurt and pain. But I do think it makes him damaged not evil and for that I would try and find my way through the anger

OP would a doll work? One for Aunt, baby for you?

Aeonium, could you not visit with your husband so that one of you is always free to hold your son?

A realistic baby doll sounds like a good idea, SleepingStandingUp, something nice and soft with a pretty face and hair. You could give the doll a name too or even name it after your aunt, she might appreciate that.

Is there the opportunity for you to see him with the baby outside of their home setting? How does he navigate time out of the house for shopping trips, GP appointments, a potential hospital stay? Could you meet him at a park near the house for half an hour with baby, and then visit him and aunt without baby on alternate visits? If he leaves your aunt to do a weekly shop could you offer to accompany him then so he sees DGC? I'd try to broach a day respite centre or a joint support package with home carers popping in.

It's no life for either of them currently, and I speak as someone whose mum 'Did not want outside help!', when DGM needed full time care (my mum was a nurse so you'd think would know the craic more!), family ways of doing things can be hard to break though. Mum did it for her mum because her mum did it for her Mum, and so on.

I feel awful depriving him of seeing his grandson when his life is so empty.

Don't feel awful. You are doing absolutely the right thing for your child. One second's lapse from her - hitting your son or dropping him - could kill him or serously injure him. It can't be risked under any circumstances. If your father refuses to understand this, you have no choice. It sounds like your father chose his sister over you years ago, now you need to choose your son over him.

You have not deprived him OP. He has deprived himself. There are in most cases some choices. He has made his. In years to come he may not be able to care for her and so he will need to find solution, why not now?

lauryloo "As a mother of disabled, non verbal child with a mental impairment it terrifies me her being a burden to her brother in years to come. And the thoughts of his possible future family speaking about her in this way breaks my heart."

My friend's daughter has Down Syndrome. She is quite capable of some things but not capable of living alone. She is now in her 40s and her parents are quite elderly. They are making arrangements for her to be part of a community when they are no longer able to care for her. She does not have any siblings. I am a very strong believer that the care for elderly people and those with disabilities should not be left to simply family. Ever.

The state has a duty to care for its citizens.

I know a child is not a parent but. when my mum was ill with dementia my sister felt quite 'guilted' by other family to offer to care for our mum, but fortunately in the end mum went into a really lovely care home and was very well looked after.

Had my sister looked after our mum I am sure it would have been very bad for both of them. Had my husband and I done it we would not have been able to adopt our son, and most likely whomever looked after mum would have ended up doing it full time and not working.

I know it is tough but I hope you can find the long term solutions and not to worry for the future.

The case of the OP is very specific and involves a husband/father abandoning his family to care for a sibling. It's very specific.

Can you buy aunt a new cheap toy when you visit. Distract her from the baby. I would call ahead I firmly tell DF that aunt will NOT be holding or goin near your baby and if he suggests it OR you feel the baby’s safety is at risk you will need to leave. Also create clear boundaries for the baby. Baby’s toys are for the baby only. They are not to give to aunt. Leave if he insists to give to aunt

I am a very strong believer that the care for elderly people and those with disabilities should not be left to simply family. Ever

Then you haven’t seen the state of social care for vulnerable adults. The state doesn’t just hand over cash for people to go and be cared for by sweet kind people in a loving environment.

In his first year away from home my son was punched by two carers - and that was in a good provision. He was then given under 2 weeks notice after his providers were taken over by a hedge fund backed corporate & is now an 8 hour drive from home in a locked ward. This reality is care for people with learning disabilities been big news over the weekend with the Daily Mail and the independent (well the I) running articles. Here’s the i piece from Sunday inews.co.uk/opinion/stephanie-bincliffe-died-because-she-was-imprisoned-for-being-disabled/ We live in an area when they will work to bring people home - but my son isn’t home yet and it has been over a year. He’ll probably be one of the lucky ones. It’s not that unusial go be locked up for ten years while various agencies argue about who is going to pay for someone in the community. Until admission my son had never been away from me for more than 2 days. Now he sees me once every two weeks for a couple of hours and each visit takes us 16 hours plus of driving, an overnight stay and costs us £500 a month. He is non verbal so can’t just give us a quick catch up by phone. Until admission my son was at school. He went in the morning, expected to go the next day but instead was sent nearly 400 miles away. Life under state ‘care’.

THAT’S why people are scared to hand their loved family members over to the state. That’s why they don’t do it. And it is handing over - under current laws families have very little rights once their child without capacity turns 18. We have gone to court (more £££’s) to get deputyship to allow us to make decisions on our son’s behalf. And these people are loved. I adore my son, no doubt this aunt is loved by her brother. They’re not burdens to us. We care deeply about them - as much as any of our other children (I have to say that because the tone on this thread from many is rather ‘othering’)

I honestly think the chances of you building a sensible relationship with your dad is minimal. You don’t sound as if you like your aunt very much and in your family she has become the reason your father left (maybe she was, maybe it was more complicated than that). You’re not interested in your aunt having a relationship with your son & I doubt your father will accept that (& no it probably wasn’t wise to give her your son to hold, but your father isn’t seeing her as the dangerous being you are, so you are going to struggle with the middle ground). Would I hand my son a baby to hold? No, tbh, it would be too much responsibility for him but I think it is going to be hard for you to have those conversations with your dad given that you have a limited relationship with his sister. And I’m not saying she should be allowed to hold your baby - just that he will not understand your stance (which is reasonable in terms of protecting your son). Do you have any interest in building a relationship with his sister? I am not saying you should but obviously he cares about her deeply and that would be a way into a relationship with your dad and give you more say on interaction with your son. It sounds as if it may be too late for that though.

FWIW I think the sores are unlikely to be anything dangerous and contagious if she doesn’t go out. Herpes (which is a worry in a baby) is usually easy to identify in someone of your aunts age - it’s initial infections that are hard to recognise, so I think they would know if it was that . Shingles (another worry for babies) unlikely to be an issue if you have had chickenpox (my middle son didn’t get chickenpox after big exposure as a baby as I had immunity) So I’d relax about those.

It just seems kind of sad that this man has given up his marriage and relationships with DD and DGS as well as his own freedom and health only for this woman to still have had a pretty crap life.

And whoever suggested a baby doll for your aunt - great idea. I have seen that work really well, Own ‘baby’ for the person to cuddle & hold. Preferably dressed realistically (so babygrow doll rather than flouncy clothes).

I may be being too negative in my previous post. A doll for your aunt may work well. If she likes babies maybe photos of your son as well- could become treasured possessions.

Good post from Devliish.

“He said he couldn’t even walk me down the aisle when I got married. In the end he agreed that DM could babysit an hour so he could come to my house for photos then walk down the aisle.”
So your Mum missed your wedding?

OP, would it help to write a letter to your Dad?

It all seems so sad. Your Dad was clearly brought up by your Gran as carer in waiting, and he then changed the dynamic down the generation by planting resentment against your aunt, rather than loyalty in you by placing you and your toys at her disposal and then leaving home.

A doll for her sounds s good idea.

I'd try to broach a day respite centre or a joint support package with home carers popping in

If the aunt is aggressive this is not realistic & has disaster written all over it.

There are specialist providers who can do a very good job but they are hard to find and commission and don’t really do pop in work. A day centre will not take someone who has physical behaviours when distressed.

In an ideal world there would have been a perfect care package waiting for the aunt. In a perfect world the op’s Dad would be getting support to look after his sister. Unfortunately if someone has physical behaviours as part of their repertoire it is incredibly difficult to get anything.

Would I encourage the Dad to make contact with SS? Yes. Is there likely to be anything easily accessible? No. Not if her distressed behaviours are at the level the OP has described. Some people have success with direct payments and employing carers direct but that’s not easy either.

@Devilishpyjamas 💐 Your experience with your DS sounds horrendous. I am so sorry you have had to go through this, what a nightmare for you and your family.

Thanks Arabella - unfortunately there are thousands of ds1’s - which is why people like the OP’s Dad end up in the (awful) situation they are. When you have a family member who is not easily picked up by the care industry (and it is an industry) you constantly have to choose between loved ones. For years we prioritised ds1 - at some cost to his NT siblings. When he left home we prioritised his siblings. Once the placement broke down we prioritised ds1 for a short time - but at very significant cost to siblings (they had to move out - so it could only be short terrm). Once we prioritised them again it was at huge cost to ds1 which will have caused him lifelong damage. We have gone over and over whether we could have done things differently - but it would have been at the cost of his siblings.

I have sat in meetings for years telling services they are asking me to choose between my children.

Ds1 is hopefully coming home to a good life - but my trust is broken and we are currently deciding whether to try and convert our house to provide a completely self conteIned safe emergency space for ds1 that would allow us to try and half meet the needs of everyone if we had to (we can’t really afford it unfortunately)

Don't feel awful for protecting your child. It's what a loving and responsible mother would and should do.

Can you imagine how guilty you'd feel if your baby was injured by her. You'd possibly have to explain why you allowed it to happen.

It's like leaving your baby alone with a temperamental dog. You cannot predict the behaviour, so it would be irresponsible to leave your baby in that situation. Or with a person who would expose your child to the risk.

I can't believe your dad expected your DM to become a ft carer for your Aunt. The assumption is astounding.

Devilishpyjamas I said " I am a very strong believer that the care for elderly people and those with disabilities should not be left to simply family. Ever." I did not mean families shouldn't care for loved ones I mean it should not be exclusively the responsibility of families. I don't think it is fair on families.

I am very sorry for the experience your son had.

"THAT’S why people are scared to hand their loved family members over to the state" this is really shocking. I am so sorry. Where I live there dies seem to be care for adults but I suppose their needs are not so great, they need assistance, in some cases a lot, but they are verbal.

I used to help at a club for people with learning difficulties (quite a broad term) and there did seem to be support for people (adults).

"We care deeply about them - as much as any of our other children (I have to say that because the tone on this thread from many is rather ‘othering’) "

I am sorry if my offended you. I do not think you or other parents/careers sgould have to struggle as you even if you adore your children you need some time off.

I totally get what you are saying buy this thread is about a very specific situation.

my post offended you...

I feel in his debt because of the house deposit etc. I feel ... bad that I can’t help him. I feel guilty because I’m all he has left. ....Then I’d cry and DF would smack me for being a nasty selfish little girl and take my stuff off me and give it to her, and more often than not she would smash it. Except this time I’m too big for him to smack

On the one hand I feel like I’m being mean and discriminatory ... because she’s disabled... I genuinely thought I’d post here and people would say I was being nasty and discriminating against a disabled person]

Your father was heavily conditioned, brainwashed actually, into putting her passing wishes above his own life.

A bit of that conditioning stuck to you, didn't it?

Your baby first. You're stuck in a hard place but you do have to put your baby first and let everything else unfold as it will. You are not bad for saying No, by the way. That's your conditioning talking. You're actually being a good mother.

As for the relationship with your father, give it time. The intensity of feelings on both sides might lessen. No guarentees but maybe after a few months one of you can contact the other and resume a limited relationship. I wouldn't take the baby there though.

I used to help at a club for people with learning difficulties (quite a broad term) and there did seem to be support for people (adults)

Helping at a club for people with learning disabilities doesn’t give insight into the situation now (post austerity) or the situation for those with distressed behaviours (which the OP has said her aunt has). A club for learning disabilities is not generally open to people with physically distressed behaviours. For those I know with ‘easier’ to manage presentations there seems to be a maximum of 3 days a week 10-3 support at a day centre or residential with no individual hours (so no person centred support). Or supported living with not enough hours of support. That’s it in our area.

This idea that there is wonderful help ready and waiting for the aunt if only the father will engage is naive. I’m not offended - but it is naive. Do I think the situation the op’s Father is in is a good one? No, but I can I understand how it happened and why he stays in this situation. I know family after family after family who has had to give up everything to care for someone with learning disabilities.

Actually OP a bit of advice for your father wound be to see whether your aunt can get an advocate. It would be a start towards planning for the future. In a lot of areas advocacy has been cut to statutory only so it might not be easy, but would be worth looking into.

Can we not describe people win learning disabilities as being lien temperamental dogs. I understand the point about unpredictability and risk (and agree) but part of the reason people with learning disabilities are being treated so appallingly is because they are seen as not quite human.

Sky news has an all day thing today about people with learning disabilities and what passes for ‘care’. Have a watch - it explains why people end up in the situation the OP’s Dad is in.