Could someone help me unpack why I'm so unlikable?

[nonotes]

I have some idea, but I'm not 100% sure why I turn people off. Maybe someone could help me work it out!

Are you afraid of people seeing the vulnerability and softness that is there, so you hide it in over confidence and bragging? Therefore keeping them firmly at arms length?

Why not stop talking about yourself period for a little while and when you see your friends focus entirely on them. If that annoys you then maybe you don't want friends as much as you think you do.

Why do you need 'real' friends? What do you think they will bring to your life?

I don't like people seeing vulnerability but I don't know why.

Ha! I don't know what they'll bring to my life because I don't think I've ever had a proper group of friends. I see my husbands group and they just think the world of each other, take the mick out of each other etc, it's lovely. Guess I would like that!

Talking at people and monopolising conversation is a turn off for everyone. Bragging is crass.

I think there's something about letting a bit of that 'softness and insecurity' bubble closer to the surface. It seems tricky, because 'showing vulnerability' feels risky and can, if overdone, seem quite attention-seeking / off-puttingly needy in itself. But, I do think that the way people often connect, is a combination of circumstance and vulnerability / need. They both have the same problem to solve e.g. how to deal with the tedium and repetitiveness of life at home with a baby, how to find new friends, and recognising that shared 'need' brings them together. You just need to find a connection. Listening and letting conversations take their own course can bring potential connections out you wouldn't have expected.

But, if I think about people who are good at making connections, they spot the point of commonality and go straight in, with a 'how do you deal with this?' or a 'oh, you have X thing, how do you find it / we're thinking of getting one of those' etc. They see themselves as part of the 'we' of a group straight away and behaving like it's true makes it so.

It is tricky. Happy people come across as nice and friendly. Which presents a conundrum.

There you have it, to develop a deeper friendship you need to be prepared to open up and be honest and genuine. If you are looking for that level then you need to take the time to really get to know one or two of your friends and stop the show boating and show them who you really are. You are looking for connection, but will only find it if you are authentic.

Your husband maybe has old friends where it is easier to 'be yourself' because they met when they were children, and before they built the wall of what they want to be, rather than who they are. It brings ease and humour and confidence because they know very well who he is and can see the child and the soul of the person still (regardless of fancy jobs, cars, houses and other adult strap ons)

If you want a deep connection, someone you trust and that cares for you (and who wouldn't) start slowly, lets things grown organically and open up. Stop the talking and start listening. You don't need to impress them, you need to be you.

I think you sound nice OP. I don’t think you should change either. I’d work on the self criticism as it’s coming across really harshly.

I wanted to reply to two specific things you mentioned.

One: yes you can make friends at any age. I have no good friends from school and very few acquaintances. Most of my good friends were made after I had kids.

Two: when you say you have no talents, would you consider trying a new hobby? Not for friends or to be talented but just in a therapeutic way and it may help your self esteem. I particularly recommend gardening but running/painting/singing/yoga/musical instrument are all equally worthwhile. I hope you can start making friends with yourself soon (sorry, sounds twee but I mean it).

Hi OP, fwiw you seem really nice 
Your last comment about not wanting people to see vulnerability - you're attempting to crack a group of people who are at the most terrifying time of their lives. New baby/maternity leave time is a mindfuck. Someone who outwardly appears to have their shit together would have made me run for the hills!
A little vulnerability, solidarity with the group you're trying to 'infiltrate' will go a long way.
Not sackcloth and ashes, but try and open up to the challenges you've come across, ask about theirs and any solutions they found.
It's the same once they start school, I feel more affinity with the frazzled looking mum rather than the one loudly proclaiming how well everything is slotting into place.
How are you at social cues? Body language? Could you ask DH to 'test' you?
One of my DCs has a game called Socially Speaking, it gives different examples to follow. I wonder if there's a adult version.

By the way, do people think it's possible to become close to someone in their 30s? Or does this have to start from school age? Because I fear I've missed the boat.

Definitely not. I had a baby at 40, moved to a completely new part of the country while on maternity leave, found the people who live in our village (having done all the right things like attending all baby groups, volunteering etc) totally not my scene, and felt very isolated. Then changed jobs and, even though my new workplace is deeply unsocial, have in the last couple of years made two very good new friends via work, in my mid-40s.

I went through a phase in my late 20s and early 30s where I was attracted to narcissists. I believed the hype and wanted to be part of their cool gang. After spending so much time with them I realised what they were really like and how much they hurt my feelings.
Do you pick genuinely kind people or are you a narcissist magnet?

I have depression too btw - so totally understand all you are saying - self critiscm is a symptom of depression and tends to trigger when your mood drops and can be self defeating - you end up in a spiral which is very hard to get out of - there is nothing wrong with your written word either - you express yourself very well - does this stem from school by any chance?

I expect a family of 5 kids was hard work for your mum and it sounds like a lack of special attention. - was one of your siblings particularly good at something ?

You have mentioned some apprehension about being on your own once your friends go back to work - look out any activity you can find for you & baby - do you find the idea of going along somewhere new daunting or easy - as for talking to others - I think as someone else said most people are socially awkward - and I think this is becoming more of an issue when we can hide behind phones - people don’t often want to make the first move for fear of rejection but you would be surprised how many can open up with the slightest bit of encouragement - and your baby gives you a lot in common with others - just something like I’ve had a really crap night so glad to get out - with a smile ( btw resting bitch face - this is not true either - this is your anxiety showing through) - even if you feel nervous as hell can sometimes work wonders - and if it doesn’t it’s not necessarily you - could be a 1000 reasons why other person hasn’t responded - just try again next time or with someone else.

At at the end of it give yourself praise for overcoming something that you felt anxious about - we can make small things seem insurmountable when feeling depressed but when ok think WTF was that all about - wish you well x

Oh and, complement people. Great starting point.

Most people think vulnerability is a weakness - it is actually a huge strength - don’t be afraid to show this - it makes you real!

Also I don’t think anything you say could be bragging - if you are able to afford nice things for your baby so what - this is you - this is real - you dont come across as being someone who would intentionally brag for the sake of it - if it’s causing your friends to be uncomfortable they need to work out why - you could try toning it down and see if it makes any difference if you feel there is something worthwhile in the friendship - but you may do this and still get the same vibes - this is then definitely more to do with them than you

I don't have any talents, I don't have any hobbies or anything like that - I was never afforded the options when I was a child.

Why haven't you been able to develop hobbies and interests as an adult? Now, when you have a young child, might not be the best time, although there's nearly always something you could be doing. But to answer your question about close friends in adulthood, I've made close friendships throughout my adult life - and I'm quite a lot older than you - and they've all been through shared interests. Apart from anything else, you start off knowing you have something in common, and something to talk about.

Hobbies and activities are good suggestions definitely. I feel a bit lazy at the moment but that could be down to low mood which would probably get better if i made the effort to get out more. I don't mind meeting new people as I'm quite good at feigning confidence to begin with. Where I live there are quite a few classes so I should try and make it to some of them.

Maybe when the boy is at nursery once a week I can try and learn something new! I'd like that

Nonotes if your mood is low you probably won’t feel like doing much - This isn’t lazy - you have been through a huge life change and this can take its toll on the most socially competent person with a huge social life and loads of friends. Motherhood takes time to adjust too and your baby’s will be your first priority.

You have a goal in mind - how long til nursery place - do you get anytime to yourself when your DH is around even if it’s just for an hour or so

Something that really helped me was yoga - not sure if this would appeal to you - lots of classes for mum & baby these days - maybe a trip to your gp would help - just having someone official understand where you are coming from and telling you that you are perfectly ok with it all even if you are a little depressed can actually help alleviate your symptoms a bit and is also an indication to yourself that you are worth taking care of yourself properly x

Most people are busy in life and busy in their own heads working out their own stuff. Just because you aren't deepening friendships doesn't mean it's about you, it could just as well be that actually those acquaintances are too overloaded in daily life to go about massaging something into a deep friendship that is working perfectly well as it is.

This isn't a 'it's not you, it's them' post - it's more, be realistic about how much emotional investment people can make when they have kids/family/jobs to maintain. People always say it's harder to make friends the older you get and maybe it's because we've got a finite amount of time, too much responsibility (and a better-honed radar for neediness).

@prunemerealgood. I think this is very true and, even now, with one at primary and another at secondary, a job and an elderly mother to look out for, I am too busy for anything other than a coffee or a trip to the cinema.

The people I would confide in would be dh or my mum and, to a point, work mates. It's not v often I open up to other mums at the school, bar one or 2.

Personally, I've always found parenting environments a bit claustrophobic and a bit competitive but I know it isn't the case for everyone. Just, for some of us, the environment doesn't suit.

Op, I would follow some of the advice to see your gp. As a new mum, things like therapy are offered on a plate. You tend to have to wait more once you have an over 5. I do think you sound as if you have a bit of pnd.

As for finding people annoying and withdrawing, that could either be a sign of depression and introspection rather than a personality flaw or just that perhaps the people you're meeting aren't your cup of tea. It is better to feel that from the off, follow your instincts rather than ignore it and find later down the line, you were correct.

Funding a course etc is a good way of meeting like minded people so def do something you enjoy. I met my now best friend on a counselling course course. It was really slow to start with, a coffee here and there, found more common ground and put friendship depended. Now she chaos a new bf, I have a 3 Yr old, she works two jobs, I don't work at all and it's been bloody ages since I saw her (OK maybe a month or so??) and am meeting for a quick hr today. But where we met set the tone for our relationship, and we connect because we're very open emotionally with each other. The friends I make volunteering for say Samaritans, we connect on a different level and over different things. There's definately your people out there x

For me it wouldn’t put me off a person if they talked about top of the range things or successes of their children. I think it may be something else OP.

Have you ever had close friends, or have you had close friends in the past and just drifted?

It is a tricky stage of life for starting new friendships...i don't have a friendship 'group' as such but my social life (which is quite poor, tbf!) consists of the following:-

1. My best friend from school, still what I would class as my closest friend now - pretty much always see on a 1-2-1 basis. And not as often as I should, as she has kids, I have work... So maybe actually meet up four or five times a year, but speak for a good while on the phone at least once a fortnight.

1. Various sils and Dh family. I mean, I wouldn't confide my deepest secrets, but we can have a good laugh when we get together and I enjoy their company. Much facilitated by the fact we have to get on for family harmony, but they're good people, even if we're not all on the same wavelength.

1. Work friends and ex colleagues. I have a couple who I am close to and message on a daily basis (I was embarrassingly proud to be in my first ever 'group chat') and the rest, well, I like them well enough and we have the odd group night out.

1. DHs friends and there partners. Again, I can have a crack with them but if me and Dh split I wouldn't be making a huge effort to keep in touch.

(actually, after writing all that, I suspect that the reason I don't have more friends is that I'm ridiculously self indulgent... 🙄 🙄 🙄... Also its just occurred to me, most of my social life revolves around people who don't have much choice in the matter! )

OP, nothing you've posted on here suggests any reason why you are inherently dislikable. In fact you sound like someone I'd enjoy having a drink with.

Every friend starts of as an acquaintance.

It sounds like things start going OK, and then peter out? At which point does the petering out happen?

I promise there were paragraphs in that....

I had a friend who had the same problem. People didn’t really like her because she wouldn’t really take an interest in their lives and didn’t have any humility. She wouldn’t see any problem with talking about her achievements or correcting people’s grammar.

It’s a weird thing, because whilst I don’t think people should put themselves down (which is something I do a lot and annoys me about myself) it’s so true that people (especially women) connect through self-deprecation, vulnerability and bigging the other person up.

@Clash, yeah things start off well and then peter out. Recently in the last 8 months I have made a connection with one person that seems to be going well. In fact, around lunchtime she text me to see what I was doing tomorrow (we meet up maybe every 2 weeks or so). I hope that this doesn't peter out because she's fab.

I met up with another mum today after being connected through a facebook group for local mums etc. Went well, would meet her again!

If it helps OP, I've never had a group of friends either and i always feel upset when i see others who have, like I've missed out on something special everyone else gets to have. I think this is a common situation, but films, tv and books make out that a group of lifelong friends is the absolute norm. One thing that struck me about your posts was that it sounds like your insecurity is overpowering you. With most friendships, after the initial period of establishing the relationship, contact does tend to lessen because people have their own lives and issues to deal with. Only your insecurity then steps in and tells you there's something about you they don't like, so you then pull away to stop yourself getting hurt even further, which msybe then looks to your friend that you're not interested in them any more. This is my reading of it, bssed on my own personal experience. I am very socially anxious too and it's horrible.

orcani Well that sounds really promising.

You mentioned yourself that only people close to you get to see the light-hearted silly you - maybe letting them see that could be the next step to securing a deeper level of friendship? Silliness is a great bonding tool.